"Listen to your elders" what if yoru elders are wrong?

[Ariel82]

1 Timothy 4
[h=3][/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit,[SUP][b][/SUP] in faith, in purity. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.


Just needed a reminder, and thought those other "young" folks out there might need one too. It is not about a person's physical age. it's not about KNOWING more than another. It's not about being seen as RIGHT.

It about living a life that glorifies God at whatever age or state you are in. It is about doing the things that are right and true and faithful even when those you try and help are thankless, and view you as ignorant, self righteous, unqualified or just too young.

anyway I'd love some encouragement, prayers, scripture and advice.

What do you do when your elders are WRONG?


[h=3]1 Timothy 5[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

5 Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, [SUP]2 [/SUP]older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, with all purity.


sometimes I forget that all you have to do is pray and keep reading

God bless and keep you.

 

[hattiebod]

1 Timothy 4
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit,[SUP][b][/SUP] in faith, in purity. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.


Just needed a reminder, and thought those other "young" folks out there might need one too. It is not about a person's physical age. it's not about KNOWING more than another. It's not about being seen as RIGHT.

It about living a life that glorifies God at whatever age or state you are in. It is about doing the things that are right and true and faithful even when those you try and help are thankless, and view you as ignorant, self righteous, unqualified or just too young.

anyway I'd love some encouragement, prayers, scripture and advice.

What do you do when your elders are WRONG?


1 Timothy 5

New King James Version (NKJV)

5 Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, [SUP]2 [/SUP]older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, with all purity.


sometimes I forget that all you have to do is pray and keep reading

God bless and keep you.

I am getting to be an 'elder' in physical age but my goodness, the young ones here on CC show me that God pays no heed to our earthly age when it comes to imparting His wisdom! I tend to ignore the age of the person, I know I ought to be respectful to all, regardless if they are 18 or 80. I am not to proud to say I can learn the truth from whoever God chooses to impart it to me! I recognize the Lord in a persons writing not by just their knowledge of the Holy Word but more importantly, their humble heart, being open to correction and being able to laugh at themselves Alarm bells always ring for me when I read the writer cutting someone down, be-littering them and having a harsh and impatient tone. Immediately I think....Where is the Holy Spirit?
God Bless, <><

 

[JaumeJ]

1Ti 5:1
Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1Ti 5:2
The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
1Ti 5:3
Honour widows that are widows indeed.

It is written to correct a brother first in private and then, if he will not listen take two others and talk to him, and finally in front of the congregation, and more. This is about a brother, and to an elder, it should be the same.

Obviously this lesson is lost in discussion......it is from the Word, it is good teaching.

 

[maxwel]

Actually this is a good topic, since some people in chat been bringing this up lately.

To start with, let me just throw this out:
Since all men are sinners, it would be impossible for your elders to be right all the time.
Some will be wise, and some will be unwise, but it isn't possible for anyone to be right
at all times without fail.

 

[Ariel82]

Proverbs 18
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Before destruction the heart of a man is haughty,
And before honor is humility.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]He who answers a matter before he hears it,
It is folly and shame to him.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]The spirit of a man will sustain him in sickness,
But who can bear a broken spirit?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]The heart of the prudent acquires knowledge,
And the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]A man’s gift makes room for him,
And brings him before great men.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]The first one to plead his cause seems right,
Until his neighbor comes and examines him.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Casting lots causes contentions to cease,
And keeps the mighty apart.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]A brother offended is harder to win than a strong city,
And contentions are like the bars of a castle.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]A man’s stomach shall be satisfied from the fruit of his mouth;
From the produce of his lips he shall be filled.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.

 

[loveme1]

We know God is right all the time.

Our understanding may or be not be correct, so let us share what we believe for His Glory in a Truthful goodly manner.

Firm but fair.

Ask God for strength, wisdom and guidance.

 

[Ariel82]

Actually this is a good topic, since some people in chat been bringing this up lately.

To start with, let me just throw this out:
Since all men are sinners, it would be impossible for your elders to be right all the time.
Some will be wise, and some will be unwise, but it isn't possible for anyone to be right
at all times without fail.

so what do we do if we notice that an elder is wrong?

I know we pray about it and it depends on the situation.

For example: you see an elder punishing a child and you know the child is innocent of the accused wrong doing, do you confront them right then or do you wait and speak to them privately after they have already punished the innocent child?

 

[gb9]

I have posted this before, but I will say again I was going to a Church for a year and a half and I liked it. the pastor, who is in his late 50's, started preaching on politics and the U.S. presidential election. I mean every week. I mean not really reading the Bible but reading the letters of the founding fathers of the U.S. but here is the thing: his family owned the Church . how do you rebuke this Elder?

 

[Ariel82]

you tell him that you go to church to hear God's words not the words of the founding fathers of the US, privately.

If he doesn't listen you find someone with more spiritual discernment and who knows WHY God wants His pastors to teach His word to learn from.

sometimes people lose focus and need to be reminded to look to Jesus and the Cross.

be sure to mention how you really liked his sermons on the BIBLE but are getting discouraged and distracted by his "preaching" on politics. You would prefer if he went back to his first love of Scripture and JESUS teachings because you found them spiritually filling.

 

[hattiebod]

so what do we do if we notice that an elder is wrong?

I know we pray about it and it depends on the situation.

For example: you see an elder punishing a child and you know the child is innocent of the accused wrong doing, do you confront them right then or do you wait and speak to them privately after they have already punished the innocent child?

Tricky, because you do not want to interfere with paternal authority but...nor can you stand by and condone injustice I think if you knew it was wrong, then you may have been involved before the punishment was meted out and would have an oppertunity, led by the Spirit, to make the Truth known. If we see wrong doing, we do need to act but we need to do so calmly and with caution. Hopefully, our voice and our reputation would be established with respect and we would be listened too. Often what we see, is what we assume...but is not the whole picture. We need to be ready to listen to all sides and be oil on troubled waters. That way, people listen. If we go in guns blazing, people just see the anger and do not listen to the words. God Bless, <><

 

[FAITHFULGILLIAN]

I am someone with lots of opinions. However, I am strongly discouraged from directly contradicting my elders (and presumed betters!) to their face. My parents see it at my age as not knowing my place.

 

[hattiebod]

I am someone with lots of opinions. However, I am strongly discouraged from directly contradicting my elders (and presumed betters!) to their face. My parents see it at my age as not knowing my place.

As a mother of a 17 & 23 year old...I can say with total honesty, I think they would say they can come to me about anything. They can also tell me when they think I have behaved unfairly, embarrassed or be-littled them ( which is horrible but it can happen) We may not agree regarding their perception of the situation, they may not understand my position nor me theirs. But, we communicate and as long as they are polite, calm and self controlled ( me too!) we work it out. I remain open to working things out. I love to hear their opinions! And their place is as much loved, wanted, precious children of mine....and our Lord God. Is all harmony and light? Well......no. But we all know we are very blessed to be in this little family and are quick and eager to repair any fall out God Bless <><

 

[Ariel82]

I am someone with lots of opinions. However, I am strongly discouraged from directly contradicting my elders (and presumed betters!) to their face. My parents see it at my age as not knowing my place.

But what is our "place"? in the eyes of God are we not all His children?

elder should not mean "better"

God wants us to be an example " in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit,[SUP][b][/SUP] in faith, in purity. "


I've always considered it as a sign of respect when young people are allowed to ask questions and discuss ideas for clarity. If we are to be an example we should be able to discuss things in love and be able to express differences of opinion and pray about it until we have clarity of what God wants us to know and learn from the Bible.

I tend to ignore those "teachers" who refuse to answer simple questions and pretend that only THEY know the RIGHT answer and if you don't accept THEIR words as gospel then YOU are not worth talking to.

perhaps not directly contradict but ask them to clarify their meaning and explain how it can be viewed a different way and why they don't see it that way. I've found that people will clarify and show their reasoning. sometimes i agree and sometimes I just pray about it and study and talk to them again and they end up changing their mind.

For example, I was at a Bible study and the pastor asked how did King Saul die. I told him "He fell on his sword and then someone came by and cut off his head" He was kind of taken back by it, but we looked up the Bible verses and I'm not sure if he still thought Saul committed suicide and the other guy was lying about cutting his head off or not, but I did see the verses as a testimony AGAINST assisted suicide because king David had the guy who help Saul die executed.

then there is a lot of things I believed that people told me but after actually reading the Bible for myself I found to be false or misused to mean something that read in context it doesn't really mean.

So we have to learn that we are not perfect and be humble enough to admit when we are wrong no matter what the age of the speaker is who God uses to correct us.

Another example of youth speaking wisdom that his elders did not have is in the book of Job.

 

[Ariel82]

[h=3]Job 32[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)



32 So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then the wrath of Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, was aroused against Job; his wrath was aroused because he justified himself rather than God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now because they were years older than he, Elihu had waited to speak to Job.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]5 [/SUP]When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, his wrath was aroused.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]So Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, answered and said:
“I am young in years, and you are very old;
Therefore I was afraid,
And dared not declare my opinion to you.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I said, ‘Age[SUP][b][/SUP] should speak,
And multitude of years should teach wisdom.’
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But there is a spirit in man,
And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Great men[SUP][c][/SUP] are not always wise,
Nor do the aged always understand justice.


[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Therefore I say, ‘Listen to me,
I also will declare my opinion.’
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Indeed I waited for your words,
I listened to your reasonings, while you searched out what to say.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I paid close attention to you;
And surely not one of you convinced Job,
Or answered his words—
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Lest you say,
‘We have found wisdom’;
God will vanquish him, not man.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now he has not directed his words against me;
So I will not answer him with your words.


[SUP]15 [/SUP]“They are dismayed and answer no more;
Words escape them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I have waited, because they did not speak,
Because they stood still and answered no more.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]I also will answer my part,
I too will declare my opinion.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I am full of words;
The spirit within me compels me.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Indeed my belly is like wine that has no vent;
It is ready to burst like new wineskins.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I will speak, that I may find relief;
I must open my lips and answer.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Let me not, I pray, show partiality to anyone;
Nor let me flatter any man.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I do not know how to flatter,
Else my Maker would soon take me away.

 

[RedTent]

If we, as Christians, are supposed to be able to judge (judge the sin of, not the person of) angels, then it would also be true that we are to be able to judge the ideas of people who are older.

In today's society, people of my age are often senile. Because our society is changing so fast as it adjusts to new technology, many people my age are hopelessly behind in that. Even our cultural mores have changed drastically, as in the sexual revolution. Because of all these things I am almost always treated with disrespect. I think that is wrong, as our bible points out. God has given me many experiences and time to learn that I can draw on and share, just because I have lived a long time. How many are there who knows what it was like in 1930 so they can compare it with today?

God does not mean, when he tells us how to relate to older people, that all people younger must accept all older people say. We are to discern and be able to put value to what they say. But it is also not right to treat all they say as having no value because of their age.

 

[Ariel82]

disrespect is never right no matter what the age of the person is.

even two year olds' should be given some manner of respect and everyone should be give Love as God instructs us to love each other.

sometimes there is the generational gap: actions which seem disrespect to one generation is commonly accepted by another. Personally I think its rude to text and answer your cell phone while you are having a conversation with someone, but its accepted norm for most even people my own age and definitely with teenagers.

I'm sure the generations before me remember a time before there were cell phones at all and the thought of having dinner out interrupted by a phone call was reserved for emergencies.

The point is personally I do listen to my elders and try and treat them with respect but I don't always agree with them. Some I know have superstitous beliefs.

Going back to the Bible we have generations who worshiped idols and God told their children specifically NOT to follow the bad example of their parents.

So the question stands how do you handle the situation when you have heard your "elder" and they are wrong?

I believe at some instances like Elihu says we are compelled by the Holy Spirit to speak, even though we would rather avoid the conflict that is to happen. the hurt and offended feelings caused by pride.

"
[SUP]17 [/SUP]I also will answer my part,
I too will declare my opinion.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I am full of words;
The spirit within me compels me.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Indeed my belly is like wine that has no vent;
It is ready to burst like new wineskins.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I will speak, that I may find relief;
I must open my lips and answer.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Let me not, I pray, show partiality to anyone;
Nor let me flatter any man.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I do not know how to flatter,
Else my Maker would soon take me away."

 

[Abiding]

I think elders should be respected. But elders need to respect the younger also.
The "are they right and wrong?" Thats an all together a different thing.
I listen to them both.

 

[FAITHFULGILLIAN]

As a mother of a 17 & 23 year old...I can say with total honesty, I think they would say they can come to me about anything. They can also tell me when they think I have behaved unfairly, embarrassed or be-littled them ( which is horrible but it can happen) We may not agree regarding their perception of the situation, they may not understand my position nor me theirs. But, we communicate and as long as they are polite, calm and self controlled ( me too!) we work it out. I remain open to working things out. I love to hear their opinions! And their place is as much loved, wanted, precious children of mine....and our Lord God. Is all harmony and light? Well......no. But we all know we are very blessed to be in this little family and are quick and eager to repair any fall out God Bless <><

You sound a very loving close- knit family. For better or worse, my own parents really do not welcome or invite any challenge to their judgements on spiritual or moral matters. And I am sure that they really do know better than me in at least 99% of cases.

 

[maxwel]

As a mother of a 17 & 23 year old...I can say with total honesty, I think they would say they can come to me about anything. They can also tell me when they think I have behaved unfairly, embarrassed or be-littled them ( which is horrible but it can happen) We may not agree regarding their perception of the situation, they may not understand my position nor me theirs. But, we communicate and as long as they are polite, calm and self controlled ( me too!) we work it out. I remain open to working things out. I love to hear their opinions! And their place is as much loved, wanted, precious children of mine....and our Lord God. Is all harmony and light? Well......no. But we all know we are very blessed to be in this little family and are quick and eager to repair any fall out God Bless <><

I think this is a good example of how a parent/child relationship is supposed to look.

The parent has to be pretty secure to be able to listen, discuss things, and even admit faults.
Most parents aren't secure enough to really do that.

God gives us a perfect example of this open communication in Isiah 1:18
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:"

God always knows better than us, and always knows the right answer,
but he doesn't say, "Shut up and listen".
God wants his children to talk to him, and discuss things.
Listening to us, even thought he doesn't need to,
is one way he shows love and compassion toward us.

If God, who is perfect, and always has the right answers, listens to his children,
then how much more should an imperfect parent, who isn't always right, listen to his children.

 

[willfollowsGod]

You can still listen to your elders, but not follow their advice if it is wrong. God bless.