What's wrong with Purpose Driven And Rick Warren?

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#21




screen capture of CENTERING PRAYER instructions from Rick Warren FOR PASTORS to teach Christians.

one of those Cisterian monks who 'revived this ancient practice', mentioned and promoted by Warren is Thomas Keating


Keating says the goal of Centering Prayer is to discover that YOU ARE GOD.

[video=youtube;bG3SOKlpXyk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bG3SOKlpXyk#[/video]


"if enough people do this, society will be transformed"
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#23
Social Change and Communitarian Systems. < click


Peter Drucker was Rick Warren's mentor.
Drucker is a continuing planner of Communitarianism.

Warren's Gospel is a works-based gospel. of a different kind.
Elite collectivist thinkers have a theory that individual rights have broken down the moral fiber of society.[1] Collectivists, through the Communitarian agenda, desire to create a new society within the shell of the old, with the philosophy of the new.

Communitarianism, also known as the Third Way:

is described as social cohesion that finds common ground, and is similar to nationalistic communism, or various forms of authoritarianism.

Communitarian Elites believe that the rights of the individual must be balanced against the interests of society as a whole, which is detrimental to individual liberty.

Communitarianism embodies a vision of a social order that encourages communal bonds.

Both Democrats and Republicans push Communitarian policies, [2][3]



American sociologist and educator Amitai Etzioni was one of the prominent founders of this newly shaped philosophy. He believes that individuals have been given too much freedom and not enough responsibilities. Etzioni and other communitarians are in favor of more obligations and fewer rights.[4]They desire the community to live up to the basic principle of the good society. But as you will learn, it will only be good for those in charge.



President Obama is a communitarian and longtime admirer of Dr. Etizioni.

Newt Gingrich is an admirer of Alvin Toppler, the founder of another philosophy similar to Etizioni's called the Third Wave.

...in Rick Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan and the U.N. Millennial Development goals, where Christians will give their service to world mission projects. It uses the framework once used by the Roman Catholic church, who is actually shaping this. This global mission project is one being put together by the World Council of Churches, who is a participant observer in the civic and religious progress of globalization. This shift has been influencing the thinking of churches and theologians from within its ranks of a global society."[6]

With this socialism/communitarianism plan, the group works together within a community in a similar manner - but the government takes the place of God. The members of the group are not accountable to their maker, rather the state/federal government. It follows then that if you want to be a member of the group, you must give up your individual rights to gain protection from the group/government.

It is actually an antichrist system, since this group concept is a counterfeit to the real deal. Communitarians borrow ideas not only from Christianity, but also from ancient religions, Plato, Marx, Jefferson, Buber, and Madame Blavatsky.

But it doesn't end there. Amitai Etzioni wants to use the goals of Christian Reconstructionism and Dominionism to replace the modern criminal code of the United States with Mosaic Law. [6] In turn, the Seven Laws of Noah, a set of moral imperatives that, according to the Talmud, were given by God as a binding set of laws for the "children of Noah" – will be set in place. This will be the final system of law, when it is all said and done.

transcendentalmeditation21 - communitarianism-collectivist-values
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#24
RedTent says "Warren's Gospel is a works-based gospel. of a different kind."
2 questions for RedTent:
1. I am being picky here but here is my question: Are you saying it is a works-based gospel or a different kind of works-based gospel?
If you are saying the latter, what do you mean by that? Different than what?
2. What role do you think works have in a Christian's life? :cool:
Sounds to me like you are looking at ways of understanding what God is telling us! Love it!

I haven't read Warren in a long time but I don't remember him as saying we must not believe in Christ's saving power, or he doesn't believe in grace. I remember enjoying his book and I would have been up in arms if he would have said something like that.

Here is how I understand works: First, I don't think that any one truth God gives us stands alone. If we leave out any part of it truth is distorted. We can't leave out faith, grace, Christ's forgiveness, the HS, or works. Besides, I think we need to figure out what of these has the most importance to God. God and His holiness comes first, and that is grace. Etc. It seems to me that it takes all of what God offers us to make works part of Him, it is last, but I think it is important.

I see works as needed to fit the entire thing together. It comes at the end, for the work without all the other amounts to nothing. But without the works, it makes all the other things God gives us worthless, too.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#25
1Still
You will find everything on this page...

Rick Warren New Age
ya good one.


Ironically, Rick Warren also has connections to the Lausanne Movement. In June 2010, Saddleback Church hosted the Lausanne Global Conversation panel at their church [5]. Additionally, Warren was on the advisory board for the 2010 Lausanne Congress on World Evangelization to be held in October in South Africa.[6]

What Boykin and Warren have in common is that they signed the Lausanne Covenant. It is an ecumenical statement crafted to unify Ecumenical Jews, Evangelicals, Charismatics and Catholics worldwide. Although it is not apparent, it embraces the Emergent Church movement.

In An Emergent Manifesto, it states:
"The Kingdom of God is already here on earth, includes all people, all faiths, and in fact is in all people and all of creation and can be felt or realized through mysticism which connects everything together as ONE.

Fanatic for Jesus: Rick Warren < click
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#26

ThriftShopPop

Senior Member
Feb 23, 2013
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#28
I just think rick warren is totally fake. The purpose driven life is to fully bring out Gods will in all we do and say at any time we can. With what we can. I think anyone can write a book about Gods purpose for us and get a ton of a kick back. (([h=1]“Do all the good you can. By all the means you can. In all the ways you can. In all the places you can. At all the times you can. To all the people you can. As long as ever you can.: John Wesley)))

Other than that, Mr. Warren is very wishy washy. He goes back and forth on certain issues which benefits no-one. He is a "limelight" pastor...and as long as he can find ways to be in the limelight, he isnt going no where.[/h]
So is Max Lucado...look at the story. Complete knock off of the bible. It just brings the "important things" out. If its the bible...shouldnt it all be important?

Just saying.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#30
Keating says the goal of Centering Prayer is to discover that YOU ARE GOD.
Exactly correct. The Centering Prayer is very similar dharana, one of the 8 limbs of raja yoga, it has nothing to do with Christianity. The only real difference is that dharana includes breath control.

Dhāraṇā - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"You are god" is pure yoga as well, since yoga is, by definition, the union of your soul (god) with Brahman (god).
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#31
Zone, for me, all this snippet linking to elaborate UN goals of this or that, honestly that doesn't do it for me.
I could take snippets of info and make it look like the Geico lizard was ruling the planet from Lesotho.

I need strong quotes in their immediate context which show actual overt error/heresy being taught.
well, you're going to have to spend a lot of time reading and listening to him.
he uses paraphrase 'bible' versions like the message and anything else he can to make the message he is giving sound like it's Biblical.
in nearly every case, the SUBTLE message is salvation by works.
he may preach the cross part of the time, or at crucial times.

but you have to look at everything he says and does.
people are brought in to these huge arena/megchurches (which were all founded on Drucker's business model - what works? pragmatism)...this is where the comfy atmosphere; lattes in the lobby; take-home worksheets, missional activity that has nothing to do with the Great Commission come from.

people are gradually TRAINED that they must be DOING.
doing works constantly.

mixed in with it, is just enough prosperity gospel (God rewards your good works) and tithing (which is unbiblical) to induce people to work for their salvation.


.....


you need to (if you want to be fully informed) look also at his activities as a world leader - which he is.

what is he saying and doing on the world stage?

that's where you'll find out what his message and plan is.

.....

he was a top adviser to that HBO or whatever it was series THE BIBLE.

which is anyone payed attention, everything which pointed to Christ in the OT was OUT or downplayed. the characters all had A PURPOSE.

they even had them saying that!
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#32
"Rick Warren is well known as the pioneer of The Purpose-Driven Church paradigm for church health. More than 250,000 pastors and church leaders from over 125 countries have attended Purpose-Driven Church seminars in 18 languages. Peter Drucker calls him 'the inventor of perpetual revival.' Rick's previous book, The Purpose-Driven Church, has sold over a million copies in 20 languages. Winner of the Gold Medallion Ministry Book of the Year, it is used as a textbook in most seminaries, and was selected as one of the 100 Christian Books That Changed the 20th Century."[4]

Notice the reference to Peter Drucker. What this legendary management guru began teaching large corporations decades ago has now been applied to God's churches as well as to communities and governments around the world. Since the new methods seemed to "work" equally well for churches as for corporations -- and since the measured results offer statistical "proof" of "success" -- pastors from countless nations have embraced and implemented Drucker's marketing approach to "doing church."

In a 2002 article in Business Week titled "Peter Drucker's Search for Community," Ken Witty describes the world view that drives Drucker's plans and purpose:

"He brings a communitarian philosophy to his consulting.... He said that what he's all about is this search for community, the search for where people and organizations find community for non-economic satisfaction....


"A lot of his ideas have become so accepted that it's hard for anyone to understand how original they were at the time he introduced them. It's sort of like Freud and psychoanalysis. Peter was the first, for example, to help managers understand that they had to define their businesses from a customer's perspective."[5]

Focusing on the "customer's perspective" brings success. People feel satisfied. They come and they buy. When this process is applied to churches, it works! With polls and surveys, a church can easily uncover the "felt needs" of the unbelievers in the local community -- then target their services to their intended consumers. Pastor Warren learned that lesson early from Robert Schuller -- the "possibility thinker" who called Mikhail Gorbachev a Christian despite the protests of this unrepentant Communist. The people-pleasing methods that worked so well at the Crystal Cathedral would prove just as effective at Saddleback.

You might still wonder why pastors would focus on the felt needs of unbelievers rather than the true needs of God's family. Doesn't this strategy turn God's principles upside down?

Yes, but it also attracts the spiritual diversity needed for the dialectic process -- the heart of today's transformation in churches as well as in business, education, government and other organizations.....




....



if this doesn't make your knees weak, nothing will:



Dr. Robert Klenck summarizes it in his report on "The 21st Century Church:

"...in this movement, it is imperative that unbelievers are brought into the church; otherwise, the process of continual change cannot begin. There must be an antithesis (unbelievers) present to oppose the thesis (believers), in order to move towards consensus.(compromise), and move the believers away from their moral absolutism (resistance to change). If all members of the church stand firm on the Word of God, and it’s final authority in all doctrine and tradition, then the church cannot and will not change. This is common faith. Soon, we will see why these “change agents” are pushing so hard for change to occur in the church."

Spirit-Led or Purpose-Driven? < click
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#33
Try Googling this phrase using quotes..

"it takes more than just faith to really please God"
 

PreTribGuy

Moderator
Staff member
Nov 7, 2009
42
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#34
1still,
about 6-7 years ago I went to a Bible study that was Rick Warren's '40 days of community' or something. I knew nothing about him when I went. It was over 6 or 7 Wednesday nights.

By the final study, I was really disappointed.

The most 'positive' criticism I have is that the whole study lacked any Biblical "meat". In fact, it really wasn't even milk, it was some watery solution that may pass for some sort of religion, but was mostly about being a good citizen. (Can we set up a fund-raiser for the old lady down the block who needs a new roof?)

Summation: It was so 'tame' I don't even think an atheist would complain.

As for other criticism,
He seemed to keep worrying about 'quantity over QUALITY' of people attending the local church-house. One of his questions (that was asked of me) was: What can we do to get more people to come to our local church-house.
(I replied: Water the message down even more...)

His whole message seemed to be the OPPOSITE of 1 Cor. 5 (Embrace the brother who is sinning and try to get those outside the church to join them.)

The study seemed to make no distinction between Christians and non-Christians, because we were asked to PLEDGE (in violation of James 5:12) that we would not speak of things in the meeting to those outside the meeting....on the first night...and I don't even KNOW these people around me! I'm not going to pledge anything, much less 'silence', much less ask/trust OTHERS I don't know to keep things spoken there quiet. This upset me greatly. I don't like 'secret societies' with people I don't know.

More:

As a student of the Bible, I know when a verse is being used out of context, OR when an obscure version 'butcher's' a verse's meaning', and this is my main issue with Rick Warren.

If one is going to teach a Biblical 'doctrine', that doctrine should be clear in any translation. If I can't (finally) make my point in the KJV, then I have no business teaching any doctrine. I am allowed to use another translation (or more) to help clarify the KJV, but when I'm done using those, the KJV should be (nearly) clear as a bell.

Rick Warren makes no such attempt: Rick Warren uses translations to clarify what Rick Warren wants to say (and ultimately, to obscure what the Bible says.

Rick Warren makes EXTENSIVE use of 'the Message' as a substitute for the Word of God. (Oddly, even the author of the Message says he does NOT like it that people call his translation 'the Word of God'....in FACT...it appears his whole 'Bible' was just a $$$ deal he HAD to do to under his contract or he would get sued?)

Anyway...
Rick Warren doesn't challenge anyone to live according to God's Word because he makes no distinction between Saints and Ain'ts, AND he uses an 'author-refuted' version of the Bible to make his points.

An example:
In the study he was trying to say love was SOOOOO important...your life depends up on it!!!! The BIBLE says your life depends upon it:

(BIBLE VERSE: Go after a life of love as if your life depended on it—because it does.

Can you guess the verse he got that from? (Hint: it is a lousy translation)

(Look it up on Google, and compare his 'point' to what the Bible REALLY says in that 'verse'.)

Well, I've been writing and editing this for over 90 minutes now, but I hope I've made my point.

Rick Warren wants people to be nice. I have no problem with THAT.
MY problem is that Rick Warren seems to think the Bible says:
John 13:35 "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love."
But I read this:
John 13:35 " By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

Jesus is Christianity: EXCLUSIVE, Rick Warren is Christianity: INCLUSIVE.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#36
Be educated or be stupid. Your call.

[video=youtube;kxY3VbBHTkY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxY3VbBHTkY[/video]
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#37
Can you point me to the cross in the purpose-drivel teachings?
Link--> http://www.saddlebackresources.com/assets/pdf/PDL/PurposeDriven/PDL_Expanded_Edition_Day_1.pdf

Well he appears to point people away from focusing on self.

The purpose of your life is far greater than your own personal
fulfillment, your peace of mind, or even your happiness. It’s far greaterthan your family, your career, or even your wildest dreams andambitions.

We ask self-centered questions like Whatdo I want to be? What should I do with my life? What are my goals,my ambitions, my dreams for my future? But focusing on ourselveswill never reveal our life’s purpose. The Bible says, “It is God whodirects the lives of his creatures; everyone’s life is in his power.”1
He seems to be against the self help approach ..Page 23

You need more than self-help advice. TheBible says, “Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way,to finding yourself, your true self.”3
He seems to indicate we should look to the word for purpose which isn't about us..Page 24

Fortunately, there is an alternative to speculation about themeaning and purpose of life. It’s revelation. We can turn to what Godhas revealed about life in his Word.

That's all I could find in the free eprint book.

I no longer have the book and I don't remember specific works about the cross.but from above we know he thinks it's about God and not self.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#39
Be educated or be stupid part 2

[video=youtube;UfLjAh-mWso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfLjAh-mWso[/video]