What's wrong with Purpose Driven And Rick Warren?

[1still_waters]

I've read the book three times.
I didn't see any glaring errors in the book.
Yet I hear much chirping about the wrongness of the purpose driven approach.

I don't know if said chirping is the result of taking a snippet of what he said here and a snippet there, and then weaving it into this massive assertion that he's a false teacher. Cuz I know that can be done to almost anyone.

Or is the chirping due to him actually teaching overtly wrong heresies?

So can someone please explain to me what is wrong with the purpose driven life?
Can you do it without taking a snippet here and snippet there, and inflating it into something worse than it is by elaborate conjecture and emotionalism?

Can you also do it in a succinct-ish way?
Namely give a brief smoking gun quote/clip/video/etc?

I want to get to the bottom of this, because after reading it, any apparent HUGE heresies have honestly gone over my head, that is if said heresies exist.

 

[zone]

I've read the book three times.
I didn't see any glaring errors in the book.
Yet I hear much chirping about the wrongness of the purpose driven approach.

I don't know if said chirping is the result of taking a snippet of what he said here and a snippet there, and then weaving it into this massive assertion that he's a false teacher. Cuz I know that can be done to almost anyone.

Or is the chirping due to him actually teaching overtly wrong heresies?

So can someone please explain to me what is wrong with the purpose driven life?
Can you do it without taking a snippet here and snippet there, and inflating it into something worse than it is by elaborate conjecture and emotionalism?

Can you also do it in a succinct-ish way?
Namely give a brief smoking gun quote/clip/video/etc?

I want to get to the bottom of this, because after reading it, any apparent HUGE heresies have honestly gone over my head, that is if said heresies exist.

Social Change and Communitarian Systems. < click

Rick Warren is CFR and Tavistock.
they are working toward the Third Way (New Millennium).

Peter Drucker was Rick Warren's mentor.
Drucker is a continuing planner of Communitarianism.

you've probably heard of the Social Gospel (where the Great Commission is changed from bringing people to repentance and salvation TO being social change agents).

all this means is that there is a planned Global Role for "faith-based initiatives": which simply means Christians primarily will be DOING....volunteering; making the world a better place, etc.

you are to "discover your purpose" < which means exactly what it says. your purpose in the world as part of one global collective.

THE THIRD WAY is Peter Drucker's Three-Legged Stool.

it's the synthesis from

Capitalism to Communism to Communitarianism.

it involves a 3 way partnership between Govt/Corporations/and volunteers (churches) - GLOBAL.

it's feudalism. christian missions will not be about the Gospel, but about work.

Warren's Gospel is a works-based gospel. of a different kind.

more.....

 

[zone]

"it takes more than just faith to really please God" - Rick Warren

 

[RedTent]

I don't think the proper question is what is wrong with this book. I think that what is wrong is the attitude of the people who pick it apart.

We are told in scripture about what our attitude should be. We are to look for what is true, what is of good report. From these things we can learn. If we find that something comes from Satan, then we can turn away and not listen. The test of that is if they love the Lord or not. If they do, we can learn. If we only look for how it misses the mark, we are not learning and we are not following our Lord correctly.

 

[zone]

"American Christianity is going through a second reformation," wrote Rick Warren back in February 2003.

Then he repeated his transformational theme, which sounds a lot like the "social gospel" with its presumptuous disregard for God's unchanging Word:

"The first Reformation clarified what we believe. This reformation is all about how we act and operate in the world. It involves the key components of purpose, decentralization, lay mobilization, use of technology, and continuous learning. Churches that change are thriving and growing more effective. Churches that refuse to change will miss the reformation, and are dying."[3]

Warren's rousing threat has alarmed many pastors and leaders around the world. They don't want to miss the bandwagon to success! So they join the world's quest for popular acclaim, positive affirmations, digital data, and manipulative processes -- including the psycho-social strategies pushed by UNESCO. And they look to Rick Warren rather than God's Word to show them how to "act and operate in the world."

The first part of this series outlined the key points of Rick Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan and the UN Millennial Goals. Remember, Pastor Warren is subject to global guidelines as he functions within the structure of the UN global management system. But that's no problem to "America's pastor." His "soft" version of God's Word, avoidance of offensive truths, and tolerance for popular culture fit right in.

So, instead of shunning him as a Christian, globalist leaders court him as a useful asset. After all, they had already planned to link the world's churches to their agenda. They needed a Pied Piper who could draw the masses into the envisioned global solidarity. Small wonder Warren was invited to speak at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) on September 12 as well as to UN leaders at a UN interfaith prayer breakfast on September 13.[4] His P.E.A.C.E. plan is a perfect vehicle for meeting UN goals:

1. Was Plant churches (the focus of Part 1), now changed to: Promote Reconciliation. The purpose-driven management system, mentored by Peter Drucker, serves UN goal #8: "Develop a global partnership for development." The two systems use the same technologies, techniques, psycho-social processes, and monitoring technology to train and monitor the "human resources" needed for change and development.

2. Equip servant leaders (the focus of this article). Today's leadership training -- as you will see in this series -- fits in the world as well as in the church. Church volunteers are essential to the UN quest for global solidarity.

3. Assist the poor. This matches UN Goal #1: "Eradicate extreme poverty and hunger."

4. Care for the sick. This matches UN Goals #4: Reduce child mortality, #5: Improve maternal health, and #6. Combat HIV/AIDS, malaria and other diseases

5. Educate the next generation. This matches #2. Achieve universal primary education

Equipping "servant leaders"

In Part 1, you met Paul Kagame, President of Rwanda, the target country for the PEACE campaign. Apparently, Rick Warren had prepared him well for their joint "ministry" in this small, embattled nation in Africa. The president's statement to Saddleback church last April bears repeating, for it outlines the structure for global change: "Rick and I agree," said Kagame, "that each partner – the church, the government, and businesses have a role to play and we are better together...."[5]

Peter Drucker, Rick Warren's mentor and a key architect of his purpose-driven management system, would fully agree with the three-fold alliance affirmed by President Kagame. According to the Drucker Foundation (renamed Leader to Leader Institute), the world is already divided into three sectors: public (government), private (business) and social (civil society including churches). Since the government sector lacks the resources needed to establish the envisioned global welfare system, the work must largely be handled by volunteers from the social sector. And, as Pastor Warren continues to remind us, only churches (primarily purpose-driven churches) are organized and equipped to meet the world's need for servers, coaches and trainers.

Ponder these three statements from Drucker's Leader to Leader Institute. Notice the reference to the Rockefellers, who have been funding and founding globalist, transformational and socialist programs throughout the last century:

"The Leader to Leader Institute will chart the future path for the social sector to become the equal partner of business and government in developing responsible leaders, caring citizens, and a healthy, inclusive society. [This is where the small groups and dialectic process enter in]

"The Foundation will bring the best leadership and management voices from across the world to people of the world with a focus on providing social sector organizations with the ideas and tools that enable them to better serve their customers and communities.

"Packaging knowledge and experience into tools for social sector leaders in critical areas such as: fund development, marketing, volunteer management, collaboration, self-assessment, innovation, and measuring results...."[6]

"A Symposium organized by The Peter F. Drucker Foundation for Nonprofit Management, sponsored by The Rockefeller Brothers Fund [December 1996]....

"As government cuts back social spending, many people expect the social sector to absorb much of the anticipated need for services.... We are now talking about a true partnership to build community and produce people who are needed by healthy businesses and a healthy society."[7]

Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan and UN Goals - Part 2: Equipping Leaders to 'Lead like Jesus'? > click

 

[1still_waters]

Social Change and Communitarian Systems. < click

Rick Warren is CFR and Tavistock.
they are working toward the Third Way (New Millennium).

Peter Drucker was Rick Warren's mentor.
Drucker is a continuing planner of Communitarianism.

you've probably heard of the Social Gospel (where the Great Commission is changed from bringing people to repentance and salvation TO being social change agents).

all this means is that there is a planned Global Role for "faith-based initiatives": which simply means Christians primarily will be DOING....volunteering; making the world a better place, etc.

you are to "discover your purpose" < which means exactly what it says. your purpose in the world as part of one global collective.

THE THIRD WAY is Peter Drucker's Three-Legged Stool.

it's the synthesis from

Capitalism to Communism to Communitarianism.

it involves a 3 way partnership between Govt/Corporations/and volunteers (churches) - GLOBAL.

it's feudalism. christian missions will not be about the Gospel, but about work.

Warren's Gospel is a works-based gospel. of a different kind.

more.....

This seems like snippet chasing and weaving to me.
Have anything less intricate and elaborate?
Like him saying Vishnu=Jesus?

 

[1still_waters]

"it takes more than just faith to really please God" - Rick Warren

That's concerning.
Context matters.
I know that may fly in the face of my call for succinctness

You have the sentences handy that surround that statement?

 

[zone]

I don't think the proper question is what is wrong with this book. I think that what is wrong is the attitude of the people who pick it apart.

We are told in scripture about what our attitude should be. We are to look for what is true, what is of good report. From these things we can learn. If we find that something comes from Satan, then we can turn away and not listen. The test of that is if they love the Lord or not. If they do, we can learn. If we only look for how it misses the mark, we are not learning and we are not following our Lord correctly.

you know.....i am so sick of people answering a matter before they have heard it.
yet it's not surprising.

or maybe it's just because it's ME POSTING. which would not surprise me either.


the Purpose Driven Church System is a developing a system of slavery worse than trying to be justified by the Old Covenant.


it involves tranformational psychological techniques designed to convince people they are please God while being involved in cult-of-personality-leadership para-church organizations.

people are entering those churches and NEVER hearing the gospel, not getting saved, but thinking that they are!

eh.........whatever

~

how about this answer, RedTent?

THE PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH SYSTEM IS GOOD.

GO JOIN ONE.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

TAKE WHAT YOU WANT AND LEAVE THE REST.

YOU WON'T BE BROUGHT TO FAITH AND REPENTANCE

YOU WILL BE TAUGHT SALVATION BY WORKS

 

[1still_waters]

Zone, for me, all this snippet linking to elaborate UN goals of this or that, honestly that doesn't do it for me.
I could take snippets of info and make it look like the Geico lizard was ruling the planet from Lesotho.

I need strong quotes in their immediate context which show actual overt error/heresy being taught.

 

[SparkleEyes]

RedTent says "Warren's Gospel is a works-based gospel. of a different kind."

2 questions for RedTent:

1. I am being picky here but here is my question: Are you saying it is a works-based gospel or a different kind of works-based gospel?

If you are saying the latter, what do you mean by that? Different than what?

2. What role do you think works have in a Christian's life?

 

[zone]

That's concerning.
Context matters.
I know that may fly in the face of my call for succinctness

You have the sentences handy that surround that statement?

"And God says during your lifetime on earth, I’m gonna test you, and I’m gonna see how you use, responsibly, the gifts that I’ve put into your life... Because life is a test... Some of you are actually getting into this test a little late, and so you’ve got some makin’ up to do. And you didn’t realize that life was a test. And so now, in the later stage of your life, you’ve got to make the most of what you’ve got because God says He’s watching...

You see, it takes more than belief, it takes more than faith, to really please God. He says it takes faith that results in loving others. Religion without love doesn’t matter. It’s not enough to say “I believe,” or even that I know my purpose. What matters, is how I love God, and how I love other people. That’s the great commandment."

The Museum of Idolatry: Search < click

search Rick Warren.
maybe if someone else talks about it people won't balk and moan.

see ya

 

[zone]

Zone, for me, all this snippet linking to elaborate UN goals of this or that, honestly that doesn't do it for me.
I could take snippets of info and make it look like the Geico lizard was ruling the planet from Lesotho.

I need strong quotes in their immediate context which show actual overt error/heresy being taught.

okay
i spent 5 years on it.

search around.
you'll find it.

 

[1still_waters]

"And God says during your lifetime on earth, I’m gonna test you, and I’m gonna see how you use, responsibly, the gifts that I’ve put into your life... Because life is a test... Some of you are actually getting into this test a little late, and so you’ve got some makin’ up to do. And you didn’t realize that life was a test. And so now, in the later stage of your life, you’ve got to make the most of what you’ve got because God says He’s watching...

You see, it takes more than belief, it takes more than faith, to really please God. He says it takes faith that results in loving others. Religion without love doesn’t matter. It’s not enough to say “I believe,” or even that I know my purpose. What matters, is how I love God, and how I love other people. That’s the great commandment."

The Museum of Idolatry: Search < click

search Rick Warren.
maybe if someone else talks about it people won't balk and moan.

see ya

How is saying that any different than saying faith does bear fruit?
Am I missing an obvious nuance?
To me all he's saying is that faith without works is dead.

 

[zone]

RedTent says "Warren's Gospel is a works-based gospel. of a different kind."

2 questions for RedTent:

1. I am being picky here but here is my question: Are you saying it is a works-based gospel or a different kind of works-based gospel?

If you are saying the latter, what do you mean by that? Different than what?

2. What role do you think works have in a Christian's life?

redtent didnt say that - i did.

The Purpose Driven System teaches in 'transformational' groups that Christians must DO things to please God.
faith is not enough. salvation is by testing your WORKS.

i'm not going to sit here and argue about it.
if people want to know and make up their own minds, get started.
better know what you're looking for.
that involves knowing the true Gospel.

if you think it's easy, give it go.

sorry for my tone.
i'm going away now.
back later

 

[1still_waters]

search Rick Warren.
maybe if someone else talks about it people won't balk and moan.

see ya

Eh don't worry about them.
They're just responding.
You know I tend to dismiss elaborate theories on un and all that.

But I'm fine with investigating solid contextual quotes.
So let's stick with that.

 

[Skinski7]

I've read the book three times.
I didn't see any glaring errors in the book.
Yet I hear much chirping about the wrongness of the purpose driven approach.

I don't know if said chirping is the result of taking a snippet of what he said here and a snippet there, and then weaving it into this massive assertion that he's a false teacher. Cuz I know that can be done to almost anyone.

Or is the chirping due to him actually teaching overtly wrong heresies?

So can someone please explain to me what is wrong with the purpose driven life?
Can you do it without taking a snippet here and snippet there, and inflating it into something worse than it is by elaborate conjecture and emotionalism?

Can you also do it in a succinct-ish way?
Namely give a brief smoking gun quote/clip/video/etc?

I want to get to the bottom of this, because after reading it, any apparent HUGE heresies have honestly gone over my head, that is if said heresies exist.

Does Rick Warren preach...

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

?


​

Here is what Rick Warren teaches...

http://rickwarren.org/know-god

It sounds NOTHING like what Jesus taught.

 

[1still_waters]

Does Rick Warren preach...

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

?


​

Here is what Rick Warren teaches...

How to Be Saved

It sounds NOTHING like what Jesus taught.

Ok I clicked that link..and that link lead me to this link..
http://rickwarren.org/docs/default-...ibrary/click-here-for-the-answer.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Some quotes from that link....

This sounds like pretty tough talk on sin..

Man is sinful and separated from God, so we cannot know him personally or experience his love because of our sin.The Bible says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23 NIV1984).
Visualize God in heaven and man on earth, with a great gulf separating the two. Man is continually trying to reach God and establish a personal relationship with him through his own efforts, such as a good life, philosophy, or religion—but he inevitably fails.
The Bible says, “The wages of sin is death [separation from God]” (Romans 6:23 NIV). The third principle explains the only way to bridge this separation.

This sounds like a Jesus centered description for the remedy to sin...

3. Jesus Christ is God’s only provision for man’s sin. Through him alone can we know God personally and experience God’s love.Jesus died in our place. “God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8 NIV).
He rose from the dead. “Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said. He was seen by Peter and then by the Twelve. After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time . . . ” (1 Corinthians 15:3–6 NLT).
He is the only way to God. “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me’” (John 14:6 NASB).
Visualize now that God has bridged the gulf that separates us from him by sending his Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross in our place to pay the penalty for our sins.
Yet it’s not enough just to know these truths . . .

The Christ-Directed Life
• Christ is in your life and “on the throne”
• Self is yielding to Christ
• Interests are directed by Christ, resulting in harmony with God’s plan

What am I missing?

 

[zone]

Eh don't worry about them.
They're just responding.
You know I tend to dismiss elaborate theories on un and all that.

But I'm fine with investigating solid contextual quotes.
So let's stick with that.

[video=youtube;2_PDnosix_c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_PDnosix_c[/video]

 

[zone]

A broad reach
The enthusiasm for "The Purpose-Driven Life" can be found in mainline denominations and
evangelical churches, in cities and suburbs. It also reaches across ethnic and cultural barriers.
In the Chicago area, more than 200 churches are participating in "40 Days of Purpose" (some
used it as a Lenten series). Among them is St. Walter's Catholic Church in Roselle, which had
hoped 100 people would sign up for small home groups for the "40 Days of Purpose" program
studying Warren's book. Instead, 700 got involved.

 

[1still_waters]

A broad reach
The enthusiasm for "The Purpose-Driven Life" can be found in mainline denominations and
evangelical churches, in cities and suburbs. It also reaches across ethnic and cultural barriers.
In the Chicago area, more than 200 churches are participating in "40 Days of Purpose" (some
used it as a Lenten series). Among them is St. Walter's Catholic Church in Roselle, which had
hoped 100 people would sign up for small home groups for the "40 Days of Purpose" program
studying Warren's book. Instead, 700 got involved.

What if a Catholic enjoys A Mighty Fortress Is Our God?
Does that then make Martin Luther a Romish?