Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[zone]

The Overview
1) Law Keepers minimize what Jesus did at the Cross. Many (not all) Law Keepers believe that Jesus died for past sins, not that there is grace for all sin. That’s one reason it’s so important for them to follow "the instructions" about how to live. They fall into the trap of the externals, when Jesus constantly pointed to and stressed the internals.

The Law in effect becomes an idol to them.

Law Keepers rely on the Law for sanctification, having it take the place of the Holy Spirit, Who enables believers to become more and more a reflection of Jesus, being part of the living Body of Christ. Law Keepers see the Holy Spirit as the One Who enables the believer to keep Torah, not as the One Who progressively changes (sanctifies) the believer from the inside out (1 Corinthians 1:2, 1 Corinthians 6:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:19-24, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-17, Hebrews 10:29, 1 Peter 1:2).

Law Keepers consistently say, "This is how Y’shua worshipped!", yet they dismiss the radical change in worship and practice in the New Testament Church (Body of Christ) after Jesus accomplished what He came to do! They do not recognize the Cross as being a definite dividing line in history, delineating the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

It is also important to note that Law Keepers rarely refer to the Epistles, unless they’re trying to discredit them or trying to convince you that they say something that they just don’t, in context, and in view of the Cross, say. Isn’t it interesting that the Epistles are where guidance, instruction, and correction of the fledgling Church occur, as well as the establishing of sound doctrine and warnings against false doctrine? Others in the Law keeping community feel it necessary to throw Paul (the writer of the bulk of the Epistles) under the bus altogether, saying that it was he who established "christianity" (small "c"), not Jesus.

2) A subtle, though sometimes outright denial of the Trinity. There are great ponderings among Law Keepers about how paganism has permeated Christianity throughout history. Some of it is true – some pagan customs have influenced Christian traditions. That topic will be addressed in a future post. In the realm of the existence/non-existence of the Trinity, however, Law Keepers take it a bit far.

Pagan sun worship apparently has its gods in sets of three, and Law Keepers extrapolate from there that the Catholic church applied that pagan concept of God to their doctrine and came up with the Trinity. From the Law Keeper’s view, over the centuries "church tradition" has perpetuated the concept of the Trinity. But thanks to the "new information" uncovered by those in the Hebrew Roots Movement, we can now be aware of our error. How this very serious error has escaped the Church (Body of Christ) for nearly 2000 years is truly amazing!

Overview of Hebrew Roots Movement | Lighting The Way Worldwide

 

[KohenMatt]

the short answer is that there is just too much variation within the hebrew roots movement to label the entire thing as a cult...

I agree completely. The same can be said of Christianity in general due to some of the wacky and extreme groups on the fringes. But those fringe groups shouldn't define the group as a whole. We need to be careful not to label a person or church based on any general assumptions made about a group.

I have experienced a bit of this movement as well, and for me it comes down to this: Those groups who tell you that you MUST follow the entirety of the OT Law (including all dietary laws) are in error. There is a lot of evidence in the NT that states that we are no longer under the Law.

When Christ said that the two greatest commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor, Christ was reiterating the most important part of the Law. I do believe that people can find greater faith in following the dietary laws and such, but it crosses the line, IMHO, when those following the dietary laws tell me that I have no faith and no obedience and, in fact am actually sinning if I do not do likewise. And yes, I have had people tell me that.

I think you've hit on a pretty important distinction that needs to be made by people on both sides of this fence: the concept of being "under the law".

Salvation is through faith alone; nothing else. Obviously the NT teaches this, but look at Noah, and Abraham and Moses' relationship with God. They were all about the grace and mercy of a God who delivered them and chose them to fellowship with Him; not the other way around. Our salvation through Jesus/Yeshua is no different.

When we have that as our foundation, we then need to realize that no obedience to the Torah/law or disobedience to it affects that gracious salvation. This is where the concept of "under the law" comes into play. God gave the law/Torah to Israel to teach them how to live, not to save them. Remember, God had already "saved" Israel through His gracious salvation and deliverance from Egypt at Passover. The Torah was given to show Israel how to live after that salvation.

There is no salvation in the Torah; it was never intended to do so. That's the distinction that needs to be made by both parties.

• Torah Keepers--Salvation is by the grace and mercy of God/Jesus and in nothing else. Our salvation can't be earned through obedience to the Torah.
• Anti-Torah Keepers--If salvation isn't related to the obedience or disobedience to the Torah, then why should the Torah be kept? Reverance and worship to the God who saved us? The desire to be more like Jesus, who walked in observance to the Torah?

When you consider everything in this light, I don't think following the "law" is too heretical of a concept anymore.

 

[zone]

Rood's teachings are unbiblical to such an extend that he can not be considered to be a Christian.

Hebrew Roots Movements

Rood is considered one of the leading figures in the so-called "Hebrew Roots" movement. This is a movement within the Christian church that claims to teach Christians the "Hebrew roots of the Christian faith" through the study of the Jewish foundational teachings.

The "Hebrew Roots" movement actually consists of various movements ranging from benign to dangerous in their teachings.

Rood is associated with the most unbiblical form of the Hebrew Roots movement.

Michael Rood | Apologetics Index

 

[zone]

The Hebrew Roots assemblies are often made up of a majority of Gentiles, including Gentile rabbis.

Usually they prefer to be identified as "Messianic Christians." Many have come to the conclusion that God has "called" them to be Jewish and have accepted the theological position that the Torah (Old Testament law) is equally binding on Gentiles and Jews alike.

They often wear articles of traditional Jewish clothing, practice Davidic dancing, and incorporate Hebrew names and phrases into their writing and conversations. Most reject the use of the name "Jesus" in favor of Yeshua or YHWH, claiming that these are the "true" names that God desires for Himself.

In most cases, they elevate the Torah as the foundational teaching for the Church, which brings about the demotion of the New Testament, causing it to become secondary in importance and only to be understood in light of the Old Testament. The idea that the New Testament is faulty and relevant only in light of the Old Testament has also brought the doctrine of the Trinity under attack by many advocates of the Hebrew Roots beliefs.

As opposed to what the Hebrew Roots movement claims, the New Testament teachings of the Apostle Paul are perfectly clear and self-explanatory. Colossians 2:16,17 says, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day – things which are a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Romans 14:5 states, "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind."

Scripture clearly indicates that these issues are a matter of personal choice. These verses and many others give clear evidence that the Mosaic Covenant laws and ordinances have ended. Continuing to teach that the Old Covenant is still in effect in spite of what the New Testament teaches, or twisting the New Testament to agree with the Hebrew Roots beliefs, is false teaching.

Read more: What is the Hebrew Roots movement?

 

[KohenMatt]

Just want to reiterate that it's critical that not all "Law Keepers" carry many of the beliefs Zone is mentioning. As a "Law Keeper", I can speak for or against many of these statments.

The Overview
1) Law Keepers minimize what Jesus did at the Cross. Many (not all) Law Keepers believe that Jesus died for past sins, not that there is grace for all sin. That’s one reason it’s so important for them to follow "the instructions" about how to live. They fall into the trap of the externals, when Jesus constantly pointed to and stressed the internals.

You can also see throughout the entire Torah God's desire to have Israel's heart first and foremost. The physical is important, but God wanted Israel's heart; the "internals" you're talking about. Both the Father and Jesus cared about both in and out.

The Law in effect becomes an idol to them.

Law Keepers rely on the Law for sanctification, having it take the place of the Holy Spirit, Who enables believers to become more and more a reflection of Jesus, being part of the living Body of Christ. Law Keepers see the Holy Spirit as the One Who enables the believer to keep Torah, not as the One Who progressively changes (sanctifies) the believer from the inside out (1 Corinthians 1:2, 1 Corinthians 6:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:19-24, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-17, Hebrews 10:29, 1 Peter 1:2).

I see the 2 perspectives you mentioned as the same thing because the Father is the son is the Holy Spirit; they all are working to see us changed more into God's likeness. The Torah, when walked out in Spirit and in Truth changes us on a daily basis. And it's only because of God's gracious salvation that we can go through that process.

Law Keepers consistently say, "This is how Y’shua worshipped!", yet they dismiss the radical change in worship and practice in the New Testament Church (Body of Christ) after Jesus accomplished what He came to do! They do not recognize the Cross as being a definite dividing line in history, delineating the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

I don't think the "radical change in worship and practice in the New Testament Church" is as radical as some people would believe. Given the choice between the 2 perspectives you mentioned (How Y'shua worshipped and the NT Church), I'd prefer to go with the God who saved me as opposed to his "followers". If we start seeing a difference between what Jesus taught and lived, and how the disciples lived, we're in dangerous territory. Now let me say, I'm not discrediting the Disciples in any way, shape or form, or how they lived. They were anointed and chosen by God. I do believe they were living and serving as Yeshua instructed them. I think their lives were a little more Torah-observant than we think. There aren't any clear-cut instructions from Yeshua to negate any Torah principles. And I don't see the Apostles doing so either.

It is also important to note that Law Keepers rarely refer to the Epistles, unless they’re trying to discredit them or trying to convince you that they say something that they just don’t, in context, and in view of the Cross, say. Isn’t it interesting that the Epistles are where guidance, instruction, and correction of the fledgling Church occur, as well as the establishing of sound doctrine and warnings against false doctrine? Others in the Law keeping community feel it necessary to throw Paul (the writer of the bulk of the Epistles) under the bus altogether, saying that it was he who established "christianity" (small "c"), not Jesus.

Just wanted to mention that are definitely some Messianic/Hebrew Roots folks who do this, but not all. But I also know of people who elevate Paul and his teachings over the Words of Jesus Himself, and treat the Gospels as somewhat of a commentary to the Epistles.

Again, there are faulty extremes on both sides, so all Believers need to be careful in how we label or stereotype one another.

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

You often hear this passage quoted non-Torah Keepers in regards to their freedom in Christ. But interestingly enough, it can be just as accurate and true for the Torah-Keeper in regards to their freedom in Christ as well.

Shabbat Shalom,
Matt

 

[RedTent]

The short answer is yes it is a cult, trying to come into Christ Jesus' kingdom, through the back door through Judaism. Did not God say that He would have His Spirit write His Law upon your hearts? Someone in here has already suggested learning these things by reading His Word! None of the Word of God needs to be ignored, if you learn what it meant at the time it was written; and to whom and why it was written. But it takes time, and years, good luck in your studies!

I think this thinking is one of the reasons our churches are weak. "Trying to come to Christ through the back door of Judaism". I am assuming that you are not meaning along with knowing the God principles that we learn through the OT, but through the physical rituals as a way of worship. They teach scripture and no where in scripture is that taught. But I have seen it taught in a church that we must only learn of God through the smallest portion of the bible we call the NT. You suggest reading the word, and that is what the movement is all about, to read the word, to hear all the word from Genesis to Revelation. Why this should cause such an upset I wonder about. If you can find a church that labels themselves part of this movement teaching rituals as Christ, you would have to search, or change the entire reason and heart of everyone in that church if they celebrate through a ritual.

My pastor says that he suspects anyone who does, physically, anything to worship God except he allows prayer said out loud. I don't think God goes along with my pastor. We are physical human beings, God is a God of the spirit. We are to worship God in the spirit and without that it is not really worship. But if we deny ourselves any physical doing in our worship, usually that means that we don't have the HS in us to direct us. One of the major things the organized church has against this movement is their way of worship. God says to give everyone freedom to worship Him and not judge them for their way.

 

[Abiding]

I think this thinking is one of the reasons our churches are weak. "Trying to come to Christ through the back door of Judaism". I am assuming that you are not meaning along with knowing the God principles that we learn through the OT, but through the physical rituals as a way of worship. They teach scripture and no where in scripture is that taught. But I have seen it taught in a church that we must only learn of God through the smallest portion of the bible we call the NT. You suggest reading the word, and that is what the movement is all about, to read the word, to hear all the word from Genesis to Revelation. Why this should cause such an upset I wonder about. If you can find a church that labels themselves part of this movement teaching rituals as Christ, you would have to search, or change the entire reason and heart of everyone in that church if they celebrate through a ritual.

My pastor says that he suspects anyone who does, physically, anything to worship God except he allows prayer said out loud. I don't think God goes along with my pastor. We are physical human beings, God is a God of the spirit. We are to worship God in the spirit and without that it is not really worship. But if we deny ourselves any physical doing in our worship, usually that means that we don't have the HS in us to direct us. One of the major things the organized church has against this movement is their way of worship. God says to give everyone freedom to worship Him and not judge them for their way.

out of curiousity only because your stance seems to always imply Christians seldom
read the OT, or that they never do....which ive never witnessed.

Will you name some things in the OT that makes us weak not knowing the OT...that is if your rumor was true?
Can you name things in the OT the NT doesnt address? That would weaken someones walk?

 

[Abiding]

Redtent do you realize just how much of the NT "is" the OT either by inference or direct quote?
Something youd never learn in the OT. Never!!!

 

[Grandpa]

This is where the concept of "under the law" comes into play. God gave the law/Torah to Israel to teach them how to live, not to save them. Remember, God had already "saved" Israel through His gracious salvation and deliverance from Egypt at Passover. The Torah was given to show Israel how to live after that salvation.

There is no salvation in the Torah; it was never intended to do so. That's the distinction that needs to be made by both parties.

• Torah Keepers--Salvation is by the grace and mercy of God/Jesus and in nothing else. Our salvation can't be earned through obedience to the Torah.
• Anti-Torah Keepers--If salvation isn't related to the obedience or disobedience to the Torah, then why should the Torah be kept? Reverance and worship to the God who saved us? The desire to be more like Jesus, who walked in observance to the Torah?

When you consider everything in this light, I don't think following the "law" is too heretical of a concept anymore.

I hear that a lot. Its confusion. Oh yeah, everyone agrees, the law doesn't save us. But we are still under it because it is the way to live.

No its not. There is a new way. A better way. A much better way with much better promises.

The torah/law was never meant to be kept by the power of the will and flesh. The torah/law was given because of transgressions. These transgressions were a direct result of the power of the will and flesh.

Galatians 3:9-22
[SUP]9 [/SUP]So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. [SUP]10[/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12[/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[SUP]19[/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


The Law/Torah was given to show the whole world what happens when you REJECT Grace. It shows the whole world that you are then condemned to and by the work of your own flesh and carnal mind. It shows the whole world our need for the Lord Jesus Christ and His Grace and Mercy.



Unless you are really stubborn. Then the Torah/Law shows you how "extra" holy you can be by following it in the power of your own flesh and carnal mind... Oh yeah, you publicly deny this... I guess that proves it.

There is no better Way than abiding in Christ. There is no better life than abiding in Christ. There is nothing that needs to be added to abiding in Christ. Not even pretending to be like Him...

 

[Abiding]

I love the OT but im not gona make my practice in types and shadows
when the substance is Christ. Nor will i do more than observe the feasts
and marvel how Christ fulfilled them...yes the OT is rich and very much should
be read and enjoyed and learned from. God expected that and told us that Rom15:

4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

but to keep sounding this OT is the key to strong living thing....hmmm theres 66 books.

 

[KohenMatt]

There is no better Way than abiding in Christ. There is no better life than abiding in Christ. There is nothing that needs to be added to abiding in Christ. Not even pretending to be like Him...

I agree completely with this statement. I'm just appreciative that Jesus gave me instructions on how to live and how to show Him that I love him by living a life that imitates Him.

John 15:9-11 "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

Ephesians 5:1 "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2 and walk in love, just as Christ alsoloved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma"

 

[RedTent]

There is no better Way than abiding in Christ. There is no better life than abiding in Christ. There is nothing that needs to be added to abiding in Christ. Not even pretending to be like Him...

I am impressed with the results possible of doing as God suggested to the Hebrews as ways to "abide in Christ". I am also seeing the results in the lives of the instructions we receive to never, ever, use any physical way of worship except baptism and the sacraments. I have also watched how doing the physical without the "abiding in Christ" part is silly and a dead end.

On the whole, it seems that by telling ourselves to abide in Christ, along with telling us it is enough and the only thing to do is a dead end for many. There is TV, cooking dinner, going to the store, telling the kids to shut the door, many things that become important and overshadow the abiding. When we take the time to sit in a chair with a prayer shawl to shut ourselves with our Lord etc., the abiding is helped. Sitting in the chair means nothing. God is spirit and that has nothing to do with sitting in a chair. But we are physical, and although we use faith (or abiding as you say) it is dead without any of the doing.

 

[RedTent]

out of curiousity only because your stance seems to always imply Christians seldom
read the OT, or that they never do....which ive never witnessed.

Will you name some things in the OT that makes us weak not knowing the OT...that is if your rumor was true?
Can you name things in the OT the NT doesnt address? That would weaken someones walk?

Abiding, I have followed your reasoning for some time, and I see we are both in the family of God and share a lot. I feel I have taken an additional step in study that doesn't seem right to you. We both know that Christ fulfilled and completed. An example of our difference is that I have gone into each sacrifice of the sacrificial system and taken those scriptures on into the scriptures of how Christ fulfilled each one. When I started this study I was sure that system was simply done away with, replaced by Christ rather than each fulfilled. This doesn't make a difference in our basic walk with Christ, but it does make it hard for us to communicate from our different ways of study. This is one example. I don't think it makes you right and me wrong, or the opposite for we both come to the same conclusion of Christ fulfilling and making complete.

The OT led people mostly in the physical paths to lead to worship. The NT focuses on the worship that is true from the heart. There were times when the old way of just doing the physical lead away from true worship. I think there are times when our focus on the spirit saying the physical ritual type of worship has no place at all in our lives leads to letting the physical that we must have take over all the spiritual, for we see no relationship between our living day to day and our God. "Faith without works is dead". I think if we would allow ourselves to relate our day to day to God, it would strengthen us. So washing is also cleaning spiritually, eating relates to living cleanly for God, etc. Not necessary at all, Paul said so. But helpful.

 

[zone]

JULY 01, 2013

UNDERSTANDING BIBLICAL COVENANTS

Program segments:

• William Tapley Weighs in on SCOTUS DOMA Decision
• Understanding Biblical Covenants
• Sermon Review: At the Movies: Monster's Inc. by Chris Edmondson, OneChurch.tv

Fighting for the Faith < Click Here to Download this episode

~

Chris starts to lay some groundwork concerning issues with the Hebrew Roots Movement.

(the first brief portion of the podcast [William Tapley - 'Third Eagle of the Apocalypse and Co-Prophet of the End-Times' - Weighs in on SCOTUS DOMA Decision] is worth listening to...funny, but very real in terms of the folly of modern prophets)

in laying the groundwork re: Hebrew Roots, a short sermon by Michael Horton clarifies the Covenants < excellent

Chris then reads from the Book of Hebrews.

then a broad overview of the most obvious errors of HR are introduced.

apparently he's going to be making the HR Movement a regular topic on his podcast, beginning TOMORROW.
exciting, since he's a favorite teacher for me, but to date hasn't covered this much.
i'll post tomorrow's podcast after hearing it.

 

[RedTent]

The Hebrew Roots movement is based on that all scripture is of God, all is truth. All the insults hurled at them seem to be based on that this is not true. We have an unchanging, eternal, dependable God I am absolutely sure of. The arguments saying this movement is all wrong are convincing me it is closer to truth than these people against it.

There is accusations about the covenants. Knowing them is basic to knowing God's ways.

They are accused of using magic. I'd have to see that.

They are accused of not reading the bible on one hand and of including the Torah in their reading it on the other.

It is said that to keep the law (good luck, no one can) means you minimize Jesus! What a silly idea.

They are accused of making the law an idol. The law explains God principles, how can this be an idol?

Someone said that if you read and listen to the law it cancels out the ability to have the Holy Spirit! Huh?

They are accused of saying the law saves. So why then, are they asking Christ to forgive them? I know they do.

One reason they are a cult, I read, is the Torah demeans Christ. The Torah is about Christ, how could it also demean Him?

They are accused of not reading the epistles, when the whole idea of the movement is to see the fulfillment through Christ that the epistles point out. When the movement centers on them how could they not read them?

We are to look at them as a cult, a poster said, because there is no salvation in the Torah. I would love to introduce this person to their Father God, and His mercy, love, and grace.

Another poster down played the OT as a shadow. A shadow is an incomplete reflection of the real thing. Because we have the complete in Christ is no reason to have fear of what the shadow was like. We have Christ' blood, certainly we don't use animal blood any longer. But if we learn all the animal blood did, it gives us a better picture of what Christ's blood is doing for us. When we have the HS we can better understand, for example, what fasting means, but we can learn from the OT fasts.

My church home agrees with you that this is a cult. As I look at how you come to the conclusion that this movement is wrong, you are convincing me more and more that it is right. I have been looking at it for some time.

 

[GeneralArminius]

Recently my wife was accused of belonging to a cult called the Hebrew Roots Movement. I didn't know what it was, so I went to this url: What is the Hebrew Roots movement?
I am wanting input, for both my wife and I believe that the Mosaic Law was given to us as a tool by God himself and is still relevant today. This causes great division, but just because we believe in the Bible as a whole, has the falling away gotten to the point where we are rejecting in bitterness parts of the Word of God that we don't like or what?

The Hebrew Roots Movement has some good and some bad elements to it. They tend to make claims that are hard to consider. Like, "You only worship on Sunday because the Pope told you to. "

 

[JaumeJ]

It has been my considered, prayerful and meditated thought since I have had reason in the Holy Spirit that any movement since the coming of our Lord, Yeshua, is a cult or religion rendering it automatically non-aligned with the Holy Scriptures. Being so it is quite easily seen as fulfilling what our Savior teaches us about apostasy abounding before His return.

As it is even in the letters of Paul the spirit of the anti-christ was already among the congregations, and there were many teaching heresies, so it is no small wonder the apostasy began with the departurre of our Savior to the Right Hand of Power.....

 

[RedTent]

It has been my considered, prayerful and meditated thought since I have had reason in the Holy Spirit that any movement since the coming of our Lord, Yeshua, is a cult or religion rendering it automatically non-aligned with the Holy Scriptures. Being so it is quite easily seen as fulfilling what our Savior teaches us about apostasy abounding before His return.

As it is even in the letters of Paul the spirit of the anti-christ was already among the congregations, and there were many teaching heresies, so it is no small wonder the apostasy began with the departurre of our Savior to the Right Hand of Power.....

I am not following how you are led. When the idea behind the movement is a closer walk with the entire scripture, making all a cohesive whole, you are saying it is apostasy. My study and prayer shows it bringing scripture closer, you see it pulling away! Perhaps our thinking shouldn't be about a "movement" but only about scripture.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is my belief that any who call upon Jesus Christ, Yeshua, in spirit and truth are my family in Yeshua. Putting a name on a movement kills the entity for me, not the members. When it is Yahweh's time He will call His children out of that great whore, and out of her daughters, for there are many.

It is excellent to learn as much of the Word as possible in following Yeshua. The more we think in terms of worshiping the El of Abraham, the more we will know about our spiritual origins and base. Those who ignore this are missing out on so very much, but you know this already. Yahweh bless you and hold you close forever, amen...

I am not following how you are led. When the idea behind the movement is a closer walk with the entire scripture, making all a cohesive whole, you are saying it is apostasy. My study and prayer shows it bringing scripture closer, you see it pulling away! Perhaps our thinking shouldn't be about a "movement" but only about scripture.

 

[zone]

here's my spiritual origin and base (and according to Judaism i was a jew...until i became a "follower of THAT MAN"):

Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

One in Christ
11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.

18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,c but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God byd the Spirit.