Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,195
6,508
113
#41
18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,c but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God byd the Spirit.

Now the Gentiles may worship freely the Messiah, with those of Israel as brethren and citizens with the saints. Baruch HaShem adonai elohanu achad, amen..
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#42
18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,c but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God byd the Spirit.

Now the Gentiles may worship freely the Messiah, with those of Israel as brethren and citizens with the saints. Baruch HaShem adonai elohanu achad, amen..
We know, Jaume, God created man as equal, dividing into Jew and gentile was a way God had to help us. God wants man to live with Him forever. He only made and used the Jews to show man His principles, they are only special to Him for that reason. In God's eyes there is no old testament and new testament, there are God principles. Christ was from the beginning, when Christ lived as a man the change wasn't fundamental, but there was a change and we need to understand it. We are all fellow citizens. But what does that have to do with our need to understand all scripture as one unit with the same goal?
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
#43
The reality is the Torah was never meant for only one specific ethnic group, religion, race, creed or other distinction. It was given by the Creator of the universe so that ALL people who want to seek His ways would have an illuminated path. The word "Torah" itself has been mislabeled as the word "law" for centuries, but the word has much more meaning than just that.

The root of "Torah" is "yara" which means "to point, shoot, lead, guide, direct". Exodus 15:5 says Pharaoh was cast into the Red Sea; the word "cast" here is "yara". Genesis 46:28 says "And he sent Judah before him unto Joseph, to direct his face unto Goshen" The word "direct" in the Hebrew is again "yara".

Taken in this correct context, "Torah" is understood to be the guiding lamp unto our feet that shows us the straight and narrow way to walk according to the will of the Father. The Torah is Yahweh's direction and instruction for how His people should walk; why wouldn't ALL of Yahweh's people DESIRE to pursue His ways?

Yeshua (Jesus' Hebrew name) is the prophesied Messiah of the Old Testament, the Son of God, creator of Heaven and earth. He was sent by His Father for the purpose of standing in the gap for Adam, and thus for all mankind (1Cor 15:22). It is only by the blood of Yeshua that we can be saved. Yeshua, our Master and Teacher, told us that he did not come to do away with the Torah and the Prophets, but to fulfill them ("complete, make whole"). Persuing Torah is not linked to attaining one's salvation; it is linked to living a life according to Yahweh's (God's) instruction, just as Yeshua did.
 
J

J-Kay

Guest
#44
Maybe I am wrong, and it is just me, but I am content being
a Christ follower. I accept what He did at Calvary for me. I
don't really feel I have to follow OT law because I know His
shed Blood makes me His daughter.

I have been blessed to have a young Jewish woman come to
a place I worked, and she wanted to debate Christianity. Long
story short Jesus won out. She is now a Messianic Jewish wife,
and mother. I did attend one of her services and it was not
something I felt drawn into. I don't attend her services she holds
in her home.

Is there something wrong with me ? I really love Jesus as He
is my Savior, and I know I am a grafted in Gentile. I do confess
when I used to eat red meat, I was somewhat afraid I was doing
what God did not approve. Same with shrimp, and other scavenger
of the sea.

If there is a cult out there, we have to remember there are MANY
active cults now.

Thank you for letting me share my opinion.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#45
Maybe I am wrong, and it is just me, but I am content being
a Christ follower. I accept what He did at Calvary for me. I
don't really feel I have to follow OT law because I know His
shed Blood makes me His daughter.

I have been blessed to have a young Jewish woman come to
a place I worked, and she wanted to debate Christianity. Long
story short Jesus won out. She is now a Messianic Jewish wife,
and mother. I did attend one of her services and it was not
something I felt drawn into. I don't attend her services she holds
in her home.

Is there something wrong with me ? I really love Jesus as He
is my Savior, and I know I am a grafted in Gentile. I do confess
when I used to eat red meat, I was somewhat afraid I was doing
what God did not approve. Same with shrimp, and other scavenger
of the sea.
Don't listen to people who try to distract you from the simplicity of Christ. They don't have, and will never have, anything better than what you have. Keep up the good work of believing into Christ. He truly loves your obedient heart.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,011
212
63
#46
The Hebrew Roots movement is based on that all scripture is of God, all is truth. All the insults hurled at them seem to be based on that this is not true. We have an unchanging, eternal, dependable God I am absolutely sure of. The arguments saying this movement is all wrong are convincing me it is closer to truth than these people against it.

There is accusations about the covenants. Knowing them is basic to knowing God's ways.

They are accused of using magic. I'd have to see that.

They are accused of not reading the bible on one hand and of including the Torah in their reading it on the other.

It is said that to keep the law (good luck, no one can) means you minimize Jesus! What a silly idea.

They are accused of making the law an idol. The law explains God principles, how can this be an idol?

Someone said that if you read and listen to the law it cancels out the ability to have the Holy Spirit! Huh?

They are accused of saying the law saves. So why then, are they asking Christ to forgive them? I know they do.

One reason they are a cult, I read, is the Torah demeans Christ. The Torah is about Christ, how could it also demean Him?

They are accused of not reading the epistles, when the whole idea of the movement is to see the fulfillment through Christ that the epistles point out. When the movement centers on them how could they not read them?

We are to look at them as a cult, a poster said, because there is no salvation in the Torah. I would love to introduce this person to their Father God, and His mercy, love, and grace.

Another poster down played the OT as a shadow. A shadow is an incomplete reflection of the real thing. Because we have the complete in Christ is no reason to have fear of what the shadow was like. We have Christ' blood, certainly we don't use animal blood any longer. But if we learn all the animal blood did, it gives us a better picture of what Christ's blood is doing for us. When we have the HS we can better understand, for example, what fasting means, but we can learn from the OT fasts.

My church home agrees with you that this is a cult. As I look at how you come to the conclusion that this movement is wrong, you are convincing me more and more that it is right. I have been looking at it for some time.

Amen, Amen and Amen!
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,011
212
63
#47
Maybe I am wrong, and it is just me, but I am content being
a Christ follower. I accept what He did at Calvary for me. I
don't really feel I have to follow OT law because I know His
shed Blood makes me His daughter.

I have been blessed to have a young Jewish woman come to
a place I worked, and she wanted to debate Christianity. Long
story short Jesus won out. She is now a Messianic Jewish wife,
and mother. I did attend one of her services and it was not
something I felt drawn into. I don't attend her services she holds
in her home.

Is there something wrong with me ? I really love Jesus as He
is my Savior, and I know I am a grafted in Gentile. I do confess
when I used to eat red meat, I was somewhat afraid I was doing
what God did not approve. Same with shrimp, and other scavenger
of the sea.

If there is a cult out there, we have to remember there are MANY
active cults now.

Thank you for letting me share my opinion.
JKay, thanks for your thoughts as there are many great ones in there. A couple of clarifications if I may....

I think one of the biggest misconceptions many people make about the "Messianic Movement" is the focus on Salvation. By definition, salvation comes from the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. No amount of obedience or disobedience to any instruction changes that (I don't think so anyways. I reserve the right for God to challenge, convict and change me on that one if necessary.) Salvation is by grace alone.

Are you His daughter because of the blood that was shed? Absolutely. But have you stopped there in your relationship with Him? Hopefully not. You hopefully approach each day looking for ways to be a good daughter and disciple, and to make your life fall more in line with His example. That should be the goal of all Christians.

Where the Messianic-thing comes in is that of the sanctifcation process, or becoming more like Jesus. We see the Torah and the rest of the OT has more instructions on how to be sanctified, to become more like Jesus. Jesus was Jewish. His parents kept the Torah. Jesus kept the Torah. And Jesus tells His followers to keep the Torah.

Matthew 5:17-19 "“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Do we "have to" keep the Torah? No! Do we "want to" and "get to"? Yes! All the Hebrew-Roots group is doing is taking a look at what the culture and original instructions given by God are, and how that can physically and spiritually instruct us how to live. Instructions for the Believer not only reside in the New Testament, but also in the Old.

There is nothing wrong with not feeling lead to be a part of her services in her home or elsewhere. I would hope the Hebrew Roots crowd wouldn't be so elitist, but I know that some are. And as a side note, there is no instruction given in Torah about Red Meat. Cattle was a part of the sacrifical system and was eaten by the Priests. Shrimp and other scavengers (pork, lobster, etc.) however, that's a different story. But that's for you to pursue and pray about.

Again, thanks for your thoughts, sister. Have a blessed day!
Matt


 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#48
We know, Jaume, God created man as equal, dividing into Jew and gentile was a way God had to help us. God wants man to live with Him forever. He only made and used the Jews to show man His principles, they are only special to Him for that reason. In God's eyes there is no old testament and new testament, there are God principles. Christ was from the beginning, when Christ lived as a man the change wasn't fundamental, but there was a change and we need to understand it. We are all fellow citizens. But what does that have to do with our need to understand all scripture as one unit with the same goal?
There are people who liked this post. How odd. Until I saw the names...

In Gods Eyes the shedding of the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ is absolutely something New. It abolished the Old and was Prophesied about time and time again in the ot.

God new that mens pride in their own ability couldn't be overcome just by telling them about it. They had to live it. They had to be shown generation after generation that they fail. They had to be shown their helplessness and hopelessness. That's the old testament in Gods eyes.

Matthew 23:37-39
[SUP]37 [/SUP]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

God Fulfills both sides of the Contract starting with the Sacrifice of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. That is absolutely new. Now the blessing isn't found in your strength and your obedience to the Law.

The Blessing is found in this New Way. Believing God fulfills it for us. Believing we can come to Him by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and not by cleansing ourselves through the Law.

Gods principle is that we fail and we need His Help if we are to stop failing. Lets stop going back to the signs and the shadows of How His Help would come and lets just go straight for the Help. Those signs and shadows can be a big side track for people who have pride issues, which judging by this forum alone which is Christian mostly, I would say everyone...
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#49
Where the Messianic-thing comes in is that of the sanctifcation process, or becoming more like Jesus. We see the Torah and the rest of the OT has more instructions on how to be sanctified, to become more like Jesus. Jesus was Jewish.
so, let's do jewish things in 2013 and pretend they were the same as what Israel was doing 2000 years ago - BEFORE Jesus and the Apostles turned the world upside down.

are you really saying turning to jewish things pleases God?
the entire New Testament disagrees with you.

Colossians 3
1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.b 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.




shouldn't the Hebrew of Hebrews, of the tribe of Benjamin said something like:

Here there is no Gentile, uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all, and He was Jewish, so emulate Jewish ways?

nah....
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#50
Luke 3
The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

23Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,e the son of Neri, 28the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,195
6,508
113
#51
I do believe we should praise Yahweh at all times. This is doing something Jewish.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#52
I still find it amusing...yes as in HA HA HA, that the majority of the Messianic movement is made up of Gentiles trying to be and do Jewish things whereas most Messianic Jews just shake their heads and go off to Evangelical churches. Maybe they just know something about the Torah Gentiles just don't get.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#53
I do believe we should praise Yahweh at all times. This is doing something Jewish.
lol

I think you are mixed up between jewish and Israelite...
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#54
FROM A JEWISH PERSPECTIVE:

.....

Hebraic Roots and Rabbis Gone Wild


"Before 1900 private guests and 2 billion people around the world, the royal House of Windsor,represents the only reigning monarch of the ancient dynasty of Kings David and Solomon. It set the stage for the Davidian Dynasty to continue now through Prince William and his Israelite bride, Catherine Middleton… Of course, the Lost Tribes have truly been lost for about 2700 years. Yet, through the studious documentation of Jewish scholars, such as Yair Davidiy with Brit-Am, and Rabbi Avraham Feld with Kol Ha Tor, the Tribe of Ephraim has now been identified as the descendants of the Anglo-Saxons on the Isle of Britannia that eventually by her Davidian rulers became the British Empire." --- Dr. Robert Mock of Biblesearchers.com

----

In part 1 of Jewish Israel’s investigation, we disclosed that the leader of a group of 1000 evangelicals, who are seeking to make aliyah and settle in Samaria as "converted Jews", is an active and committed messianic Christian. In part 2 of our report, we explored the politics involved in promoting this endeavor and we exposed several Israeli politicians who are bolstering an evangelical Christian foothold in the Jewish state.

In this third, concluding part of this series, Jewish Israel examines the "spiritual" dynamic of the movement which inspires "Christian aliyah", especially taking a look at some of the rabbinic personalities involved in this precarious venture.

Wild Weeds Take Root

Baruch Abrahamovich (Avramovich), the leader of the Christian messianic group which aims to make aliyah and establish a commune-like settlement in Samaria, is connected to both Christians and Jews enamored with the so-called Hebraic Roots or Restoration of Israel movement.

As indicated in our previous reports, Abrahamovich has featured messianic Hebraic roots leader Eddie Chumney on his Christian radio show and was apparently introduced to influential Israelis by Ben Ehrhardt, one of the foremost leaders of the Ephramite sect of the Hebraic restoration movement. One former Ephramite who found her way to Judaism writes :

"Erhardt exemplifies a large percentage of rank and file Ephraimites, particularly those who desire to live in Eretz Yisrael while holding fast to their Messianic beliefs, which, ironically, they passionately disavow as being Christian in nature…He preaches total disassociation from any former members of the Ephraimite movement who have rejected Jesus as G-d or Messiah.

On Ehrhardt's Facebook page, he seems to imply that Abrahamovich is laying the groundwork for future Christian aliyah and that this plan has been in the works for three years now. Ehrhardt was at one time collaborating with Joel Bell in Bell’s World Biblical Zionist venture, also aimed at preparing the way for Christian aliyah.

Hebraic Roots scholar and advocate Dr. Robert Mock reports that he and Abrahamovich are associates of Kol Ha Tor, an organization founded by Orthodox Rabbi Avraham Feld.

Jewish Israel spoke with both Rabbi Avraham Feld and his brother, Rabbi David Feld. We will address the Rabbis’ reactions later in this report.

Discovering Hebraic Roots or Just Digging In?

Generally it can be said that the "Ephraimite," "Restoration of Israel", "Two House" or "Ten Triber" movements are Christian messianic sub-sects. The adherents of these sects, sometimes referred to as "Joes"– for the house of Joseph, or "Northern Kingdom Israelites", consider themselves grafted-in to the Jewish root through Jesus. They believe that the Land of Israel is their eternal inheritance to share with “their brother Judah”( the Jews) as co-heirs under a new covenant governed by jesus. Many, but not all, of these cults promote the idea that certain "born-again", “Christian Zionist” sectors of the church are part of the “lost tribes” and actual blood descendants of the ancient Israelites.

The Hebraic Roots movement was at one time considered fringe, but it is gaining popularity, with respected publications, such as the Jerusalem Post Christian Edition, which has featured articles on the subject.

According to a recent video produced by missionary Christine Darg, who is closely affiliated with the Knesset Christian Allies Caucus and the International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem (ICEJ), "The Hebrew Roots movement strongly emphasizes the completion of the unified House of Israel in jesus christ, who's known in Hebrew as 'yeshua'. And this commonwealth of Israel is made up of Jews and non-Jews alike – what the apostle Paul called 'the one new man'." Darg goes on to say that "Adoption and engrafting into a commonwealth of Israel has now made it the right of every born-again believer in the messiah to participate in the lifestyle of the Jewish people.”

[Note: Christine Darg and her husband Peter can be seen studying with Rabbi Mordechai Machlis in Jerusalem. One has to wonder whether teaching Torah to missionaries is the wise thing to do. We've written to Rabbi Machlis about this matter and we're awaiting a response. Jewish Israel also has this video of Rabbi Yehuda Glick, when he was with the Temple Institute, taking part in a "ceremony" with Darg].

It should be noted that Hebraic Roots movements are made up of varying messianic streams which have inconsistent, some would say, evolving ideologies. The leaders are often at odds with one another, and more than a few of the personalities involved are confused and colorful, to say the least.

Like other jesus sects, many adherents of the Ephramite movement no longer consider themselves "Christian", although they remain christ-centered. Their "Jewishness" is manifested by their replacing certain "pagan" church traditions with Jewish rituals and observances. Some Hebraic roots leaders absurdly proclaim themselves to be "Torah observant" and have taken on the title of "rabbi", while fiercely holding fast to their belief in jesus and preaching the gospel.

Like other messianic groups, no matter how you contrive, contort, and package them, these sects remain Christian by any other name. Some theologians consider the Hebraic Roots doctrine to be a modern-day spin on British Israelism, a belief that people of Western European descent, particularly those in Great Britain, are the direct lineal descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.

It is important and fair to note that more than a few members of these messianic sects, including Jews lost to Christianity, have indeed made the crossover into authentic Judaism or have joined a number of burgeoning Bnai Noach groups. These successes have encouraged and inspired certain Torah observant rabbis and scholars, to deem the evangelical thirst for the Hebraic Roots of Christianity to be part of an end-times prophetic process.

Hebraic Roots and Rabbis Gone Wild - Jewish Israel






It is important and fair to note that more than a few members of these messianic sects, including Jews lost to Christianity, have indeed made the crossover into authentic Judaism or have joined a number of burgeoning Bnai Noach groups.

These successes have encouraged and inspired certain Torah observant rabbis and scholars, to deem the evangelical thirst for the Hebraic Roots of Christianity to be part of an end-times prophetic process.

....



Noahidism is a Biblical-Talmudic and monotheistic ideology based on the Seven Laws of Noah, and on their traditional interpretations within Judaism. According to Jewish law, non-Jews are not obligated to convert to Judaism, but they are required to observe the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come (Olam Haba), the final reward of the righteous.[1][2] The penalty for violating any of these Noahide Laws is subject to interpretation in the Talmud. Those who subscribe to the observance of such laws and their supporting organizations are referred to as Bene Noach (B'nei Noah) (Hebrew: בני נח‎), Children of Noah, Noahides or Noahites.

Historically, the Hebrew term Bene Noach has applied to all non-Jews as descendants of Noah. However, nowadays it is also used to refer specifically to those non-Jews who observe the Noahide Laws.

Noahidism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the "Law of Moses", because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.

Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,195
6,508
113
#55
The word, Jewish, is from the name of the patriarch of the tribe of Judah. When he was born, his mother in gratitude of delivering another child said, I will now praise Yahweh. This is the meaning of Judah. There is nothing more "Jewish" than to praise Yahweh.
Food for thought. The shortened name of those called Jewish is Jew the same as Yah, the name of the Father.

If I am Jewish it is only by translation. As for thinking I am Jewish, honestly, I never have, though I have been told by others I am Jewish. For me, to have the attributes of the meaning of the word, Jew, from its root meaning that is, is the highest praise a human may give another, for it is calling me a praiser of Yahweh. Thank you.

I guess I am not so mixed up after all........thanks for the naming though.
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#56
Maybe I am wrong, and it is just me, but I am content being
a Christ follower. I accept what He did at Calvary for me. I
don't really feel I have to follow OT law because I know His
shed Blood makes me His daughter.

I have been blessed to have a young Jewish woman come to
a place I worked, and she wanted to debate Christianity. Long
story short Jesus won out. She is now a Messianic Jewish wife,
and mother. I did attend one of her services and it was not
something I felt drawn into. I don't attend her services she holds
in her home.

Is there something wrong with me ? I really love Jesus as He
is my Savior, and I know I am a grafted in Gentile. I do confess
when I used to eat red meat, I was somewhat afraid I was doing
what God did not approve. Same with shrimp, and other scavenger
of the sea.

If there is a cult out there, we have to remember there are MANY
active cults now.

Thank you for letting me share my opinion.
You cannot be a true Christ follower without being a God the Father follower. How could you repeat the Lord's prayer? Christ said to address it to the Father.

The NT is taking the OT God principles and showing how Christ fulfilled them. To only read the fulfillment without letting yourself know the base is like trying to go to high school without anything of grade school.

There is nowhere in all of scripture that says that it is sinful to not follow the paths to worship God gave for our benefit. If you would decide to follow God's plan of eating to avoid sin, it can't be done. You could decide to follow it as a path to such as keeping yourself pure spiritually, as a reminder of that. It is apart from sin and the forgiveness of sin through Christ.
Even the understanding of how God speaks to us through this instruction is profitable for us and brings us closer to Him, but what you eat without spiritual involvement or listening to God is silly. Using it in worship is profitable.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#57



It is important and fair to note that more than a few members of these messianic sects, including Jews lost to Christianity, have indeed made the crossover into authentic Judaism or have joined a number of burgeoning Bnai Noach groups.

These successes have encouraged and inspired certain Torah observant rabbis and scholars, to deem the evangelical thirst for the Hebraic Roots of Christianity to be part of an end-times prophetic process.

Hebraic Roots and Rabbis Gone Wild - Jewish Israel

....

Noahidism is a Biblical-Talmudic and monotheistic ideology based on the Seven Laws of Noah, and on their traditional interpretations within Judaism. According to Jewish law, non-Jews are not obligated to convert to Judaism, but they are required to observe the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come (Olam Haba), the final reward of the righteous.[1][2] The penalty for violating any of these Noahide Laws is subject to interpretation in the Talmud. Those who subscribe to the observance of such laws and their supporting organizations are referred to as Bene Noach (B'nei Noah) (Hebrew: בני נח‎), Children of Noah, Noahides or Noahites.

Historically, the Hebrew term Bene Noach has applied to all non-Jews as descendants of Noah. However, nowadays it is also used to refer specifically to those non-Jews who observe the Noahide Laws.

Noahidism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the "Law of Moses", because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.

Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
WARNING - APOSTASY AHEAD

Hebrews 10
29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

Galatians 1
No Other Gospel

6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

Galatians 5:5
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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P.S. Kay, I am SO impressed that you led a jewish woman to Christ! I lived through the same situation with the same request, and failed. I think it was because I hadn't studied enough scripture. God bless you!

Now, I wish she could lead you to using God's help in teaching us to use everything we do as part of worship. It isn't important, like your leading her was important, but it is a blessing.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#59
Forgive the oversight, my post was a reply to yours. I see you like to "laugh out loud." Very nice of you to consider others so.

lol

I think you are mixed up between jewish and Israelite...
The word, Jewish, is from the name of the patriarch of the tribe of Judah. When he was born, his mother in gratitude of delivering another child said, I will now praise Yahweh. This is the meaning of Judah. There is nothing more "Jewish" than to praise Yahweh.
Food for thought. The shortened name of those called Jewish is Jew the same as Yah, the name of the Father.

If I am Jewish it is only by translation. As for thinking I am Jewish, honestly, I never have, though I have been told by others I am Jewish. For me, to have the attributes of the meaning of the word, Jew, from its root meaning that is, is the highest praise a human may give another, for it is calling me a praiser of Yahweh. Thank you.

I guess I am not so mixed up after all........thanks for the naming though.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#60
lol

I think you are mixed up between jewish and Israelite...
eventually there will be no turning back for some Grandpa.
i've been watching this whole thing unfold for over a decade.


Galatians 3:1
Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ's death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross.