Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
- Thread starter just-me
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- su·per·sede
/ˌso͞opərˈsēd/
Take the place of (a person or thing previously in authority or use); supplant: "the older models have now been superseded". - supplant - replace - substitute - displace
Is there a scripture saying that Jesus is a substitute or replacement to the will of His Father who gave the Law to Moses. Just asking for scripture to clarify. I don't recollect Jesus saying, forget about what me Dad wants, here's my take on it all. Just my words to describe how I see things.
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So knowing the perspective that I have on things and where my salvation lies, what would be the harm in celebrating Passover?
True, but they did experience salvation that night. Absolutely.
You're right. Separating a nation was one of the benefits. But remember, Passover was not a corporate event. God didn't just automatically pass over the Hebrews as a people. Every family had to make the decisions to trust God. And in turn, God passed over every individual family looking for the mark of belief and deliverance.
Which is why I said,
And I suppose I would say that if people aren't able to look past the historical account of Passover and see Jesus in it, they shouldn't celebrate it. That just lends itself to legalism and vain rituals. And I see people who do that every year. They celebrate and worship the symbol, and not the substance. Everyone can see throughout Scripture that God doesn't care about vain repetition and ritual with no heart behind it. I not only see God working in people's lives everyday right now, but it humbles me to see how He has always worked in people's lives, and it builds my faith knowing that He always WILL.
True, but they did experience salvation that night. Absolutely.
You're right. Separating a nation was one of the benefits. But remember, Passover was not a corporate event. God didn't just automatically pass over the Hebrews as a people. Every family had to make the decisions to trust God. And in turn, God passed over every individual family looking for the mark of belief and deliverance.
Which is why I said,
And I suppose I would say that if people aren't able to look past the historical account of Passover and see Jesus in it, they shouldn't celebrate it. That just lends itself to legalism and vain rituals. And I see people who do that every year. They celebrate and worship the symbol, and not the substance. Everyone can see throughout Scripture that God doesn't care about vain repetition and ritual with no heart behind it. I not only see God working in people's lives everyday right now, but it humbles me to see how He has always worked in people's lives, and it builds my faith knowing that He always WILL.
E
The focus would be brought on you doing it. And not on what really happened. Which is the danger with all traditions and vein repetitions.
From egypt yes. From their sin I am not sure.
The lamb slaughtered was the focus. The freedom was purchased by an innocent,
It symbolised Christ, so again, should we not celebrate that instead?
Again, I can't see it or understand it. God does many great things today, he wants us to focus on today, Why remember something that happened to another people in another time which has no bearing on our eternity, Why not focus on the one thing which did. and the many things God does today all around us..
B
To continue the celebrations does not imply keeping repetitive rites, as though the church holds them to, but from a Christian view they ought to be seen as foreshadowing if one wants to continue. As a reminder of God's faithfulness, it's good to be grateful and appreciation of praise. For is not communion given by our Lord not only a foreshadow of the exodus into the wilderness?
Well Grandpa, you certainly are welcome to your line of thinking and the methods you used to get there. I'm just not buying it. Now keep in mind, I don't have a problem taking the bread and the juice/wine. I do it every week. But to say that it supercedes and replaces Passover:
People can infer anything they want. But unless God, or Jesus, or the disciples say that Passover is done away with and replaced, a vague reference to an act that could look a lot like sitting down at Olive Garden dipping bread in the olive oil waiting for the server to take your order, isn't enough for me to say, "Yep! See! God got rid of Passover!"
Thankfully though, this isn't a salvation issue. This issue and our agreement or disagreement on it doesn't negate how God is working in both of our lives, and how he is choosing to use the both of us to build up His Kingdom in different ways.
Blessings to you, Grandpa!
Matt
- a decree given by God to be kept forever
- that Jesus obeserved
- that Jesus Himself never said to stop doing
- that the Apostles never said to stop doing,
People can infer anything they want. But unless God, or Jesus, or the disciples say that Passover is done away with and replaced, a vague reference to an act that could look a lot like sitting down at Olive Garden dipping bread in the olive oil waiting for the server to take your order, isn't enough for me to say, "Yep! See! God got rid of Passover!"
Thankfully though, this isn't a salvation issue. This issue and our agreement or disagreement on it doesn't negate how God is working in both of our lives, and how he is choosing to use the both of us to build up His Kingdom in different ways.
Blessings to you, Grandpa!
Matt
True, but just because there is a risk that someone might focus on the wrong thing doesn't mean we should just say it's a definitively bad thing and cease it all together. That risk of focusing on symbols and shadows could exist in almost every facet of Christianity today.
Right. But the question becomes, "how"? How do we celebrate it? His sacrifice is obviously the most important thing to celebrate, but how do we do it? By making up new traditions and rituals to say we're celebrating Him? Or is it possible to use the things God Himself set up?
Right. But the question becomes, "how"? How do we celebrate it? His sacrifice is obviously the most important thing to celebrate, but how do we do it? By making up new traditions and rituals to say we're celebrating Him? Or is it possible to use the things God Himself set up?
E
true but why risk it. God does not want our religion. He wants our hearts.
And again. Why look to that, instead of at Christ, the true passover lamb,,
The way he said.
Get together often, and break bread and drink the cup in remembrance of him. (actually it is a meal, nbot like most churches do it today, they have even made a religious ritual out of this)
Not once a year to remember the passover, which had nothing to do with us.
And again. Why look to that, instead of at Christ, the true passover lamb,,
The way he said.
Get together often, and break bread and drink the cup in remembrance of him. (actually it is a meal, nbot like most churches do it today, they have even made a religious ritual out of this)
Not once a year to remember the passover, which had nothing to do with us.
E
ok, You have part of it. And quite phariseeicle of you, But that is not all of it. There was sin in the world before the law was, and the law does not cover all sin.
No wonder some people think they are holy.. they can;t even see their own sin.
ps. eating of a fruit tree, which caused the fall of mankind, was not breaking the law, yet it was sin..
No wonder some people think they are holy.. they can;t even see their own sin.
ps. eating of a fruit tree, which caused the fall of mankind, was not breaking the law, yet it was sin..
Ancient Israel was to be an example to the world. They adulterer themselves with pagan and heathen practices. God divorced the house of Israel. The New Covenant is now available to all who become "Israel", the grafting into the Olive Tree. This is good news. Because God's people failed and became not His people, He now through Christ has made the way for us to be His people. I think many Christians are having an IDENTITY CRISIS. Who is the Lost Sheep that the Shepherd calls? Is it you?
Galatians 3:22-25
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Not a replacement to the Will of the Father but a replacement to the way of the hebrews in the OT. The Lord Jesus and the Way He gives us has always been the will of the Father.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Not a replacement to the Will of the Father but a replacement to the way of the hebrews in the OT. The Lord Jesus and the Way He gives us has always been the will of the Father.
You've just described how the hebrew roots movement are a cult. Of course you're not buying it. That's why I have to keep showing that its all about Jesus all the time.
If the Lord Jesus Christ hasn't superceded the Passover then why celebrate it? If you're not celebrating the Lord Jesus then what are you celebrating?
Then one has to be careful not to separate, because Jesus said; "I and my Father are ONE". Has God changed? No. Has Jesus changed? No
Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
God and Jesus alike do not accept doctrines that have no substance. Like rejection of past truth, and acceptance of vein works. Both are equally rejected and corrupt.
Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
God and Jesus alike do not accept doctrines that have no substance. Like rejection of past truth, and acceptance of vein works. Both are equally rejected and corrupt.