JOB THE PERFECT MAN, or not?

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1joh39

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#1
#1
So many people advise me to read the book of Job. So let us do it step by step, and we will learn Job was not so perfect and innocent as he thought he was.
Job1: 1..
1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Now... that man was perfect and upright, and feared God and eschewed evil. Three times Job was declared quite a man. Perfect and upright! Fearing God! And rejected evil! All three times declaring that this man was a God fearing good man. Now I ask if he was perfect would he ever have reason to repent?

Well that depends on the degree of perfection we talk about, and since I believe God only has one degree of perfection: His, there is only one degree of perfection. Job had to be pretty perfect for God to call him perfect and upright as well! If God did do so.. many believe He did!
Verse.. 8 a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Now my question is, does a perfect man like this ever have to repent from anything! I say no! Perfect is perfect, but... if the man realise he is not as perfect as he thought he was once he comes to know of the things he did not understand, then he has reason to repent, and who declared him perfect in the first place?

If is was Job, and I lived a Godfearing, evil rejecting, perfect and upright life, and all of a sudden a lot of bad things happen to me, and I hear, Satan asked God to lift this blissfulness from me so that Satan can have his way with me, would I as human be upset? And then I hear that God has faith in me not to curse Him whatever happens. And in anyway, the only ones that did die in the wind is that awful sons and daughters of mine, that does not want to listen. But I stay upright and perfect! When i heard the news i tore my clothes and worshipped, naked I came in naked I shall leave this world!

And then I hear the next conversation between God and Satan. Again God called me perfect and upright. And God said to Satan ...I stayed fast and held on to my integrety, although Satan moved God against me to destroy me without cause.

NOw as a perfect and upright man I just outshined God! God does what Satan wants of him and I do not! Oh boy! Something is terribly wrong here! God gives in to the requests of Satan! No way!!!! How can Job reject evil and God does not! Maybe Job should swop places with God, Job rejects evil and God gives in to the wishes of the father of evil! Something is wrong!

Now you can read the whole Book of Job and continue to believe that God gave into Satan's requests, demands, wishes or will. Job did, until the day the Lord actually showed Job His perfection! So perfect, that NO evil can even approach Him. So perfect that evil cannot be in His presence. And Job sees this in Job 42. What Job understood to be perfect, and upright, made him repent in dust and ashes, and abhor. Why, because he was never perfect! And why abhor? Why recall all he said? He was perfect! No he was not, that is why he abhor. And now... He asks God this and makes this statement!...

Job 42:
1Then Job answered the LORD, and said, 2I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. 3Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. 4Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 5I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. 6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Job says he knows God can do everything... And that no thought can be hid from God. Then Job says...Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? Which man can make up a mind like I did without knowledge? Oh Lord God... I have uttered things i do not understand... Satan telling God what to do etc... Things too wonderful for me, I thought and said things I believed was true, but I have heard these things, and i understood wrong!!! But now Lord God i have SEEN!!! with mine own eyes, I saw thee... I withdraw all of the Book of Job what i said and believed, please I will demand of thee and thee can teach me, the TRUTH! I repent, in dust and ahses, and I abhor, withdraw all things I heard and believed!

And now God has a liking in Job, and for the first time Job saw the Truth, and now he would most likely be a God fearing man, because God says... To the two friends of Job... they should go and offer and Job should pray for them and God will accept, Job's prayer lest God treat them as they deserved!

Ok let me put it to you like this... Satan cannot get to God! so that was wrong! God does not have council with Satan... That was wrong. Job was not perfect, he had to repent. That was wrong! God does not puninsh his servants, the get punished by evil for His Name sake. God only sent His Son to be punished, but He did not crucify Him, He resurrected Him! Evil killed Him, I did! Job did, and all sinners did!

Jesus is the personification of God, He did not punish any righteouss, he saved sinners, quite the opposite, and that Job realised when he saw God! And that I also realised when I saw Jesus. He did not have counsil with SAtan he rebuked him and repremanded him. He went against him in all three temptations! And Jesus will never, NEVER give in to any request of Satan. That would put them on the same side in one single opinion, and that is enough to make Jesus imperfect! God is the same, he cannot be made imperfect, least of all by SAtan to give in to his requests! He threw him down to the earth, NEVER to enter where God resides! Not even in us!!!

If God was any less than this, I would not have considered Him worthy, but He is even more worthy than i can consider Him to be!

HOLY HOLY HOLY is our God!
Amen!
 
1

1joh39

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#2
#2
Take your time on this! Pllease!
 
K

Kyra

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#3
#3
This is a very confusing post. Are you saying that the book of Job should not be considered inerrant, infallible and divinely inspired?

You state:
... Satan cannot get to God! so that was wrong! God does not have council with Satan... That was wrong. Job was not perfect, he had to repent. That was wrong!
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

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#4
#4
Kyra said:
This is a very confusing post. Are you saying that the book of Job should not be considered inerrant, infallible and divinely inspired?

You state:
... Satan cannot get to God! so that was wrong! God does not have council with Satan... That was wrong. Job was not perfect, he had to repent. That was wrong!
Click to expand...
Yea, I wonder how exactly he gets that God doesn't have council with Satan?
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#5
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#5
do I sense some Jealously here , or are you under the false teaching that no man can be perfect through God, I mean attack what one may think is false doctrines taught in here but to attack a man such as Job, I mean didn't He go through enough without you attacking now??? then by attacking him you attack the very word Of God. Who are you? let me ask you some questions

Job 37:15Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?Job 37:16Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?Job 37:17How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?Job 37:18Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?




yeah satan was cast out but it never says that he don't ever have to go back before God
 
T

Thaddaeus

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#6
Jan 31, 2009
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#6
One thing that I get from Job is that God had faith in Job. WOW! I mean for God to have faith in me, to know that i would as faithful as Job. That I would remain faithful no matter what was throwed at me. God lifted Job above every man, woman or kid that lived at that time and said Devil go ahead take your best shot at him he will stay true to me. I mean to see this, is not to be jealous of but rather to long, to desire to be Like this.


Php 3:14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.Php 3:15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
 
S

Slepsog4

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#7
#7
When studying the book of Job one must remember some things about inspiration.

That the events occurred = true.
That the people involved said what they said = true
Everything they said was correct = false

Not everyone presented in the book is inspired. They are giving advice, etc. But in the end God rebukes them.

One must be careful when quoting from Job that he does not quote an uninspired person.

The term perfect generally means whole, complete, or mature. I know of no where in Scripture where it means flawless, or sinless.
 
1

1joh39

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#8
#8
I will answer you all later. i just finished a long trip and need to be longsufferiing in answering out of the Word of God, all your questions! Just one thing you all have to consider please. I did not write the Book of Job, and I did not tell Job to withdraw all he said, he did so when he realized he said things he did not understand, And to make Job's misunderstanding clear to us , i will quote from Jesus. But thet i will do when i rested!
Thank you for your replies, and may we come to the full understanding of God, as He has it in store for us! He wants us to know Him, may His will be done in all of us! MAy God bless all my friends here, with His knowledge!
Amen!
 
J

Jezreel

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#9
#9
Our flesh is not perfect and fails but God can do a work that our hearts are considered perfect before him.
 
1

1joh39

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#10
#10
Ok now the answers!
Kyra I am saying we should look at the whole Book of Job to understand. Job uttered a lot of things on hear-say! Things he did not understand. Like, "Satan was in heaven and God does what Satan advices!" Read in Job chapter 2... thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.... God saying to Satan, that Satan moved God against a perfect man to destroy him without cause! Satans new ally is God himself? I just cannot believe Jesus would harm an innocent man because Satan asked him to! If you can fine, I do not!
There is one more ally of God, that even made God repent! And I also do not believe this!

Moses is on the mountain with God, he comes down and find all the people with molten golden calf. He went back up the mauntain and God wants to wipe the whole nation of the face of the earth, and Moses changes God's mind on this? Come on! You have to be realy ignorent of Jesus to think He waould have his mind changed by any man! Look here...
Exodus 32 : 10 to 14.
10Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. 11And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? 12Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. 14And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Now any person that knows Jesus just 5% should know, that NO MAN can tell Jesus to repent of evil against people! When did Jesus show fierce wrath that a man should tell Him to repent? And then in verse 14...The LORD repented! of the evil which He thought to do unto His people!

If you find this in caracter with Jesus Christ, then he did not die for my sins but His own! Fortunately i went to God, and asked Him to show me what is going on. And Jesus gives the answer.

God made man in His image and His likeness. And Jesus was the image, that God came to show us to what He restores us too! Every reborn child of God does not do any sin, and they are restored to perfection to the fulness of Jesus Christ Himself! And to keep the tempter, Satan away they get a command how to treat Satan!

All people following God gets this advice... Eph 4 : 24... 24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. .....verse 27... Neither give place to the devil.
If God advices me not to give place to the devil, would he give place to the devil? That would make Him a hypocrate, if He does, fortunately He also confirms this with.... 2 Cor 6:14 to 18... 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
NONE!!!! God does not have counsil with Satan, go ask Him! And may He answer you personally!


 
1

1joh39

Guest
#11
#11
Pastor Kieth!
Pastor - like a shepherd! Some person that leads sheep, or in this case human sheep! Like God's sheep! Well let us see if you are Godly appointed, or sheeply appointed!
Sir Keith, I am the first man i know that believes that all children of God turns out to be perfect before their bidies are laid to rest! Why, because of what is written in: 1 John 3:9. And look at this passage, i have to be abbsolutely ignorent not to believe that God makes ALL his children perfect!
Eph 4:
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Now... I am not even saint, but i guess if i am chosen i would get there, then a "already perfect pastor" will teach me to the perfection of the measure and stature of Christ!

My question is... can an imperfect man teach another the perfection of Christ? NO!!!! So all the Apostles, prophets, evangelists, PASTORS and teachers were perfect men! And in no place in the Word did any of them ever retracted there words after they were appointed Apostles, prophets evangelists, pastors and teachers. The Words they uttered was from God Himself! 2 Peter 1:21. Also confirms that they were moved by the Spirit, all their lives! That is my goal, to be moved by God's Spirit, and to achieve this, i have to know God. That is why i study the Word, 4 hours a day, for thirteen years now! Without outside assistance!

You agree with me on the many false teachings, yet they all claim they are in service of God. which God? The one that listens to Satan to punish a perfect man. Or the god that takes Moses' advice? Well my teachers, are all Pastors, Apostles, evangelists and prophets, that are perfect! Perfect as the command in Matthew 5:48. I applied for membership at a church, where I am the only sinner! Fortunately, it is God's will that i would also end up a member there, and may His will be done, in my life!
Amen!
 
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1joh39

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#12
#12
Slepslog, thank you. you read Job! And we lay so many things on God's doorstep, blaming Him for many things He has nothing to do with! Why, because of the lack of knowledge...God's knowledge!
It is free, in silent time with God in His book. But people would rather bite eachother here than to make sure they know God / Jesus!
If Jesus says... You want to do the will of your father the Devil when you want to take a life, than all people did the will of Satan when they took a life! Jesus is God! And all His knowledge is free for all who wants it. Come with a humble heart, and He aill personally write His knowledge on your heart! What a God we serve!
 
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1joh39

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#13
#13
Carrier, God does not have council with Satan, not ever! Every time Satan enters into God's space he makes God unholy! We were taught by Jesus, that a liitle leaven leaveneth the whole lump. God will never allow that to happen to His lump! The day you can prove that darkness penetrates light, is the day Satan can enter God! Light drives darness away! God drives Satan away!
You might come with the scripture of Satan that would be cast down from heaven in revelation, but that is another study, in deep! Let me just tell you where Satan and God still meet!...In my heart! And yours! And we both have heaven in our hearts! We should make it God's kingdom, and Satan would be cast out of it....Forever!!! Amen!
 
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