Grace alone ain't gonna save you to being with Him always when you die, is it ?

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GreenNnice

Guest
#1
Nope. You can believe in God's grace, which is His Son having died on the cross, while you deserved DEATH, you only, NOT me. :D Oh, just kidding. What, can't you tell :)

We ALL are sinners, we all are forgiven of our sins, He does want us to confess however, be bold, do that. He asked us, too, to become holy, as He IS holy, as we walk our Earthly life with God and, until we get to Heaven, we will be working on the sanctifying work of ourselves getting to that one glorious day, of, you got it, glorified state of being, which comes ONLY after we die .

To be out of the body is to be present with the Lord. << Paul says this, not me. :)

We get our glorified bodies after we die, the subject of 'when' is for debate, but NOT in this thread , please :)
We are sanctified through the work of the Holy Spirit in us working us, because God wants us to work !!
We are justified by faith in Him , in His leading of our life, through His life and His Spirit guiding us. It's hard for us to see the guiding but just you go forth, you will KNOW :)

But, yes, we who were were DEAD in our transgressions--Ephesians 1:1 tells us--and were disobedient, CHRIST DIED FOR US, all of us, sinners and unbelievers. Keep in mind, we are ALL sinners, even Christians.

This 'disobedience to God speaks of HUMANKIND, not just the Israelites, as Hebrews' author refers to, so, don't think you get let off the hooK. You on iT , too :) But, NOT me. ;) ;Read the last few verses of Ephesians 2 to realize we are all ONE, grafted into the same citizenship of Christ, Jews, Romans, Gentiles, ALL who believe in Him with their heart, those who are 'born again,' having His righteousness imputed unto their body and understanding there can be no such thing as 'self-righteousness.' :)

God UNhooked us all by the sacrifice of His Son on the cross. This is His great grace, mind you, it's certainly not His only grace. But, God took mercy on we sad sack human folk and in so doing, His mercy saves us from certain death that as to come to us before Jesus died on the cross. Now, we do still die, as said earlier, but we die once and then live forever !!! Either we live forever with Him , as we 'sleep in Jesus,' and ,then, one day go to be with Him, or, just go to Him right after we die, depending on how you believe, I believe, the latter but that's not the discussion here. :)

Bible authors do not tell us we are justified by grace, no, we are simply allowed to be saved to be His forevermore by God's grace. But, that grace alone does NOT save you, and, it ain't EVER gonna save you !! There's more to the story, for we must have FAITH . God makes this clear in the complete unraveling of words through Paul, His inspired author speaking in Ephesians 2, we are saved by grace through faith.....we are His workmanship. He made us and He WILL work us. We simply are to have faith in the work that He has us doing. What are you doing now?

Is it by faith in Him that you are doing it? ARe you at peace that the work you are doing on planet Earth is pleasing to Him ? Pray for that answer, God will ALWAYS give answers to (y)our prayers, it will be His timing that the answers are revealed, by His Spirit's revelation and leading, but, they will come, you just read your bible, hear it's words, BY FAITH, and, follow through. Just like swinging the bat or kicking the soccer ball, the POWER comes with the follow-through, as well as don't forget what helps too, your technique that WORKS . Follow through your life with faith in His work and technique used to best bring glory to Himself, for God wants all attribution of good things we do merited to His favor, for this will bring favor on you in His eyes. This will bring grace, mercy, and the Love of the Father, God, YOUR Father, blessing you :)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#2
Bible authors do not tell us we are justified by grace
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#3
and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(Rom 3:24)

I hope Paul is a 'bible author'.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#4
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Faith, ohzone, just faith. :) But, not faith alone, but not grace alone either :) We are ALL under His grace, but we are saved through faith. :) Three smiles for ya, milady, what's this world coming to :)

and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(Rom 3:24)

I hope Paul is a 'bible author'.
But , crossnoted, we are 'justified by faith,' so, which is it? 'justified by grace,' or, 'justified by faith,' or, is it something(s) else? :)

By grace, yes, we are, no doubt, saved by His grace. It is a free gift, this is not being argued. But grace alone will not save you an this is truth of Scripture. Can you post a 'justified by faith' verse for us now :)


Crossnoted, and, ohzone, do it together or alone, but can you pick out the key word in the title of my thread for 'grace' ? :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#5
Faith, ohzone, just faith. :) But, not faith alone, but not grace alone either :) We are ALL under His grace, but we are saved through faith. :) Three smiles for ya, milady, what's this world coming to :)



But , crossnoted, we are 'justified by faith,' so, which is it? 'justified by grace,' or, 'justified by faith,' or, is it something(s) else? :)

By grace, yes, we are, no doubt, saved by His grace. It is a free gift, this is not being argued. But grace alone will not save you an this is truth of Scripture. Can you post a 'justified by faith' verse for us now :)


Crossnoted, and, ohzone, do it together or alone, but can you pick out the key word in the title of my thread for 'grace' ? :)
without grace, faith has no Redeemer to trusr. Without faith (as many unbelievers demonstrate) grace continues on. We're saved BY grace THROUGH faith.
 
Jan 8, 2013
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#6
Nope. You can believe in God's grace, which is His Son having died on the cross, while you deserved DEATH, you only, NOT me. :D Oh, just kidding. What, can't you tell :) We ALL are sinners, we all are forgiven of our sins, He does want us to confess however, be bold, do that. He asked us, too, to become holy, as He IS holy, as we walk our Earthly life with God and, until we get to Heaven, we will be working on the sanctifying work of ourselves getting to that one glorious day, of, you got it, glorified state of being, which comes ONLY after we die . To be out of the body is to be present with the Lord.
 
Jan 8, 2013
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#7
A lot off topic, I was going to say this earlier ... You have the Monster Energy 666 as a picture - The 3 scratch marks are Hebrew letters VA - The numerical value is 6 - The M made from 3 scratch marks are VA - VA - VA ..... 666. The Monster Energy 666 also tells you on the cans and displays to " UNLEASH the BEAST" - It stands out big time every time I see it. Jesus !!!!!! IS LORD!!!!!!!!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#8
A lot off topic, I was going to say this earlier ... You have the Monster Energy 666 as a picture - The 3 scratch marks are Hebrew letters VA - The numerical value is 6 - The M made from 3 scratch marks are VA - VA - VA ..... 666. The Monster Energy 666 also tells you on the cans and displays to " UNLEASH the BEAST" - It stands out big time every time I see it. Jesus !!!!!! IS LORD!!!!!!!!
Good catch kjv, but your avatar looks a little 'beasty' if I might say. :)
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#9
without grace, faith has no Redeemer to trusr. Without faith (as many unbelievers demonstrate) grace continues on. We're saved BY grace THROUGH faith.
Grace does not continue if we do not accept it through faith in Him. Is that what you're saying? :)
666, VA, Hebrew, nice, I want to radically reach those whose life does NOT have Jesus as Lord. My intent is to follow Him, and, one day, those who do not TAKE the number of the beast , by faith in Him to LIVE, will, indeed, die, but by the grace of God they will then LIVE. FOREVER . WITH JESUS, Lord God of heaven and Earth. :)
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#10
God is a complete whole, to know Him is to know all the parts that make up God. Take out obedience, and grace won't work for we have only sin, and sin and grace can't operate together. Take out grace and obedience won't work, for we simply can't make ourselves holy enough to do what God does. Take out faith, and if we have no God to go to, we are simply mortals with nothing.
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#11
"But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do" (Ephesians 2:4-10, New International Version, 2011).

This Passage means that we are saved by grace, through faith. Grace is grace because it is free. If it were not free, it would no longer be grace. Even works are not of ourselves, but have been prepared for the elect in advance.


Grace and Peace!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#12
Grace does not continue if we do not accept it through faith in Him. Is that what you're saying? :)
666, VA, Hebrew, nice, I want to radically reach those whose life does NOT have Jesus as Lord. My intent is to follow Him, and, one day, those who do not TAKE the number of the beast , by faith in Him to LIVE, will, indeed, die, but by the grace of God they will then LIVE. FOREVER . WITH JESUS, Lord God of heaven and Earth. :)
Grace is not dependent on our faith. I once hated God and yet by His grace He turned my heart toward Him. Again it's BY grace THROUGH faith.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#13
Grace is not dependent on our faith. I once hated God and yet by His grace He turned my heart toward Him. Again it's BY grace THROUGH faith.

Crossnoted, do you make a 'saved' connection with verse 10 of Ephesians 2, speaking of our being's God's "workmanship," or a 'faith' connection ?

Because if it's a 'saved' connection, which it sounds like it, you are taking 'faith' out of the equation of Ephesians 2:8.


By grace are ye saved, through faith, and that (being saved) is not of yourself, it is a free gift of God that no one should boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus......


OK, can you see that 'faith' is connecting with something bigger than being saved, or, at least, different, in verse 10, right?

It's not a trick question. I am simply trying to understand your rationale for thinking there is grace without faith for being saved. Grace AND faith, that is what was being said to you and ohzone, neither commented so I will now. There is NO such thing as grace alone in Scripture. Grace is TOGETHER with faith for our salvation, and, we attain our salvation through being His workmanship, and we were created in Christ Jesus to do good works before we were even born.


Why do so many THINK grace alone saves them ?? Mindfuddles me. It is a dual mandate of Christ's , of course, YES! we are saved by grace, as, when we were 'Enemies of God,' as Scripture states, God sent His Son to be a propitiation for our sins, to RESTORE our LOST relationship with God.


God's grace saves us but it's ONLY through faith, that is, using the faith that God gave us to follow Him in our lives. The Lord leads, brother. "you follow Me." And, IF that John 21:22 verse quotes does not speak of faith, and, obedience , then, I don't know what it speaks of. And, this following of Christ is an act of faith, there are works involved in the faith, obviously, but, it's NOT works, works are merely an outpouring result of one's faith in Him, FAITH IN GOD's work of you, His workmanship, in your life . We CAN only understand God's complete grace by having faith, receiving the Holy Spirit BY FAITH..... This changes us, this revelation of understanding from Him who lives in us, we no longer are an Earthly being, but a spiritual being, and, becoming more and more spiritual takes GREAT faith. It's not TRUE FAITH either, there is no such thing as "true faith." It's just faith, it's just realizing that by grace are we saved, through faith. Faith in what? Faith in who, rather? Faith in Him.

I like Philipians 3 to explain this "loss" to "gain," and this "attain" to "obtain." And, this truth, too, that there is a PRIZE for keeping our eyes looking "heavenward" toward Christ Jesus. Now, how do we do this? By grace? Uh-uh. YOU can't do it on your own righteousness, or, the law, you MUST do it by 'faith in Jesus Christ,' and, YOUR, while on this Earth, being His workmanship.

This is deep stuff, crossnoted, it seems simple to see but it's not, there's great duress and stress and friction and debate over ALL these things said. I just say, brother, believe what you believe, it's fine, the Lord leads, He reveals all things to us as He wills unto your lives.

What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[SUP]a[/SUP] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Crossnoted, IF you hope to have 'participation in His suffering,' YOU are going to do so THROUGH FAITH in Him. Grace is THERE but it is not there alone, it has help, to wind YOU through, and, that 'through' is faith :)
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#14
I see. They don't teach you metaphors etc. at KJV-Only schools. That would explain a whole lot.

A lot off topic, I was going to say this earlier ... You have the Monster Energy 666 as a picture - The 3 scratch marks are Hebrew letters VA - The numerical value is 6 - The M made from 3 scratch marks are VA - VA - VA ..... 666. The Monster Energy 666 also tells you on the cans and displays to " UNLEASH the BEAST" - It stands out big time every time I see it. Jesus !!!!!! IS LORD!!!!!!!!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#15
Crossnoted, do you make a 'saved' connection with verse 10 of Ephesians 2, speaking of our being's God's "workmanship," or a 'faith' connection ?

Because if it's a 'saved' connection, which it sounds like it, you are taking 'faith' out of the equation of Ephesians 2:8.


By grace are ye saved, through faith, and that (being saved) is not of yourself, it is a free gift of God that no one should boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus......


OK, can you see that 'faith' is connecting with something bigger than being saved, or, at least, different, in verse 10, right?

It's not a trick question. I am simply trying to understand your rationale for thinking there is grace without faith for being saved. Grace AND faith, that is what was being said to you and ohzone, neither commented so I will now. There is NO such thing as grace alone in Scripture. Grace is TOGETHER with faith for our salvation, and, we attain our salvation through being His workmanship, and we were created in Christ Jesus to do good works before we were even born.


Why do so many THINK grace alone saves them ?? Mindfuddles me. It is a dual mandate of Christ's , of course, YES! we are saved by grace, as, when we were 'Enemies of God,' as Scripture states, God sent His Son to be a propitiation for our sins, to RESTORE our LOST relationship with God.


God's grace saves us but it's ONLY through faith, that is, using the faith that God gave us to follow Him in our lives. The Lord leads, brother. "you follow Me." And, IF that John 21:22 verse quotes does not speak of faith, and, obedience , then, I don't know what it speaks of. And, this following of Christ is an act of faith, there are works involved in the faith, obviously, but, it's NOT works, works are merely an outpouring result of one's faith in Him, FAITH IN GOD's work of you, His workmanship, in your life . We CAN only understand God's complete grace by having faith, receiving the Holy Spirit BY FAITH..... This changes us, this revelation of understanding from Him who lives in us, we no longer are an Earthly being, but a spiritual being, and, becoming more and more spiritual takes GREAT faith. It's not TRUE FAITH either, there is no such thing as "true faith." It's just faith, it's just realizing that by grace are we saved, through faith. Faith in what? Faith in who, rather? Faith in Him.

I like Philipians 3 to explain this "loss" to "gain," and this "attain" to "obtain." And, this truth, too, that there is a PRIZE for keeping our eyes looking "heavenward" toward Christ Jesus. Now, how do we do this? By grace? Uh-uh. YOU can't do it on your own righteousness, or, the law, you MUST do it by 'faith in Jesus Christ,' and, YOUR, while on this Earth, being His workmanship.

This is deep stuff, crossnoted, it seems simple to see but it's not, there's great duress and stress and friction and debate over ALL these things said. I just say, brother, believe what you believe, it's fine, the Lord leads, He reveals all things to us as He wills unto your lives.




Crossnoted, IF you hope to have 'participation in His suffering,' YOU are going to do so THROUGH FAITH in Him. Grace is THERE but it is not there alone, it has help, to wind YOU through, and, that 'through' is faith :)
GreenIe, why are you making a mountain out of a molehill? Grace exists independent of us and issues forth on account of Calvary. If we believe/have faith (also a work of grace) we partake of grace's benefits. If we refuse His grace we only hurt ourselves but it is still grace nonetheless.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#16
If we can do something to earn our salvation, even a little, Christ's sacrifice wasn't sufficient to conquer sin, death and the devil. But we're told in the Bible that God's grace, through Jesus Christ's death and resurrection, is sufficient.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#17
If we can do something to earn our salvation, even a little, Christ's sacrifice wasn't sufficient to conquer sin, death and the devil. But we're told in the Bible that God's grace, through Jesus Christ's death and resurrection, is sufficient.
Where in Scripture are the words, or, anything similar, 'My grace alone is sufficient for you to have salvation.' tintin ?
 
Jan 8, 2013
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#18
Good catch kjv, but your avatar looks a little 'beasty' if I might say. :)
Actually I was going to point out he had the 666 and a beast ( Dog ) too, but thought it will fall on deaf ears..... you know. And the Lord Jesus Christ is compared to a cat, read REVELATION 5 verse 5 - Lion of the tribe of Judah.
 
Jan 8, 2013
660
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#19
Grace does not continue if we do not accept it through faith in Him. Is that what you're saying? :)
666, VA, Hebrew, nice, I want to radically reach those whose life does NOT have Jesus as Lord. My intent is to follow Him, and, one day, those who do not TAKE the number of the beast , by faith in Him to LIVE, will, indeed, die, but by the grace of God they will then LIVE. FOREVER . WITH JESUS, Lord God of heaven and Earth. :)
Trying to help, alot of people here have no discernment, so I had to point it out.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#20
Many things in the Bible may not be spelled out but inferred by cross-referencing Bible passages/verses. Hebrews 10 is an excellent start.

Where in Scripture are the words, or, anything similar, 'My grace alone is sufficient for you to have salvation.' tintin ?