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Thread: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by josh123 View Post
    how can someone keep the SABBATH without the holy spirit how can anyone do that? ask yourselves this... that's why it's not meant for us we are the GENTILES we are saved by grace not by law Ephesians 2:8-9

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. if we are mean't to live under a law why did god died for our sins?

    Saved by grace is absolutely correct, does that exempt you from obeying God? Are we excused if we murder? Commit adultery? Take God's holy name in vain? Doesn't matter anymore because we are under grace?
    JaumeJ likes this.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    The prophet Ezekiel prophesied of many times in what we call history up to and including the third Temple, sometimes called Ezekiel's Temple, but my favorite name for it is "The Messiah's Temple."
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by john832 View Post
    Saved by grace is absolutely correct, does that exempt you from obeying God? Are we excused if we murder? Commit adultery? Take God's holy name in vain? Doesn't matter anymore because we are under grace?
    there's an error i see.
    Nobody can claim to be Christian unless his or her life is justified by the Holy Spirit.
    if you claim to be Christian yet you do those things, then you are a liar. the Holy Spirit never justified you in the first place

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    How has Christ become our rest? Same as if I were a law breaking criminal and the laws I broke sentenced me to the law of capital punishment. Then comes one with authority to pardon me and release me from prison. I am still guilty of breaking the law or laws that condemned me to the death penalty but now the handwriting of ordinances, my specific law breaking actions or torn to shreds and put in the garbage and thus my record is clean. Are the l laws I broke no longer laws? Does the government of God now change His laws or void all the laws? No. The laws still are the laws of God (Mosaic laws) but now I am a full law abiding citizen of the commonwealth of Israel. There is a new law now I can claim and that is when I unintentionally break a law I have an advocate before God in Jesus, our High Priest. I repent (recognizing I broke a law) and ask for forgiveness and make a 180 degree turn. The longer I live, the more perfected I become in being a law abiding citizen prepared to inherit the Kingdom of God/Heaven when Christ returns to set up His earthly kingdom where He rules with a rod of iron. So Christ is my rest from my sins that are of the law of sin and death. Now that I have an advocate before God, I can rest in that I am not yet perfected, made incorruptible, and given immortality, which I will receive when Christ returns. I am being made ready for His super one world government here on earth.
    I am an ingrafted Israelite through the blood of Messiah Yshua! I believe the Torah is intended for all believers Jew and gentile. I am Torah observant and grace dependant. Although I seek to obey all of Torah that applies to me I fail to do so perfectly and so I am dependant on the grace of Yah for forgiveness.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by josh123 View Post
    if we have a rest with god in us Hebrews 4:1-4

    For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. why do you keep the sabbath? we are in rest when we accept god...
    Ever read verse 9?

    Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    the word for rest here is Sabbaton. Here is the rendering of the Diaglott...

    Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

    In the margin of my KJV it says the same thing.

    You know, the Ten Commandments were monumental to Israel. There was the need for a church conference and the Apostles got together to discuss the change of circumcision from flesh to the heart. (Acts 15) Why was there never ANY discussion about something so important as a change to one of the Ten Commandments?

    In fact why did Paul teach Gentiles on the Sabbath?

    Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
    Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
    Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

    Why didn't Paul take this opportunity to explain to these folks the Sabbath had been changed to Sunday? Because it hadn't been changed.

    Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

    Here it says it was Paul's manner to teach in this Gentile city on the Sabbath? He missed another golden opportunity to show them the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. He didn't miss anything, there was never any such change.

    And here is yet another opportunity Paul had...

    Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

    Why did he not teach anywhere in the N.T. to observe Sunday?

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by leonardronaldo View Post
    there's an error i see.
    Nobody can claim to be Christian unless his or her life is justified by the Holy Spirit.
    if you claim to be Christian yet you do those things, then you are a liar. the Holy Spirit never justified you in the first place
    You mean to say those Laws are still in force? That is exactly what I have been saying.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by BradC View Post
    In the context of the teaching that was given to the new testament churches, both Jew and Gentile, there is no teaching, instructions or even a suggestion that Christians were obligated or commanded in any way to keep, honor or remember the Sabbath. The Jews continued to gather on the Sabbath but the church is not mentioned in doing so. There is just no record in the scriptures of this happening. Why do you think that is? If any Jew wants to keep or remember the Sabbath to keep it holy, they can do that. However, the churches are under no obligation as far as I can tell. That is my take on this matter.
    Uh, show me the teaching where it was done away with and replaced by Sunday? That logic is faulty, there is no command in the New Testament against bestiality, does that make it an acceptable practice?

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by john832 View Post
    Uh, show me the teaching where it was done away with and replaced by Sunday? That logic is faulty, there is no command in the New Testament against bestiality, does that make it an acceptable practice?
    Bestiality is a form of fornication and immorality so yes it is in the new testament

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by leonardronaldo View Post
    what about 17 and 18, let me quote from your post
    Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
    Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
    is that also about eating or about what?
    lol
    I picked one verse from Roman and 2 verses from Colossians yet you chose to 'attack' the roman verse. yea right.
    let me ask your opinion sir, do you think those who don't observe sabbath as you do are going to HELL? even if they are persecuted for Christ's sake?
    thanks
    Explain to me how that is about the Sabbath. That is more of the same teaching about not offending a weak brother.

    As far as the going to hell thing, I believe something so far different than that it would amaze you.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryancampbell View Post
    Bestiality is a form of fornication and immorality so yes it is in the new testament
    And if we want ot start generalizing that far, we can justify anything.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by josh123 View Post
    how can someone keep the SABBATH without the holy spirit how can anyone do that? ask yourselves this... that's why it's not meant for us we are the GENTILES we are saved by grace not by law Ephesians 2:8-9

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. if we are mean't to live under a law why did god died for our sins?
    oh joshbud.

    everytime you speak of the Great Savior Jesus Christ and how everything is complete and Yea and Amen in Him, you're going to be accused of Antinomianism (despising the Law)

    Paul was too!

    The Fear of Antinomianism
    Jan.27, 2011 by Michael Horton
    The White Horse Inn

    Fear is a powerful motivator. We’ve grown used to it being used in politics to argue for (or against) certain economic, immigration, or military proposals. We sometimes don’t recognize its misuse in the church. This week, the fear of antinomianism (which means the rejection of God’s Law as a standard of righteous action required of God’s covenant people) has been raised. There have been genuine antinomians in church history.

    There are many today, who set aside God’s law as the standard for God’s righteous judgment, usually substituting their own prescriptions. However, accusations have been raised over the last few days that target people who are decidedly not antinomian.

    In a recent Christianity Today article by Jason Hood, the antinomian charge was directed at contemporary Reformed preachers and writers. Elsewhere, the White Horse Inn was rebuked for encouraging this false teaching.

    There’s no point in responding to accusations point by point. Anyone who subscribes Lutheran or Reformed confessions is conscience-bound to repudiate antinomianism as a perversion of biblical teaching. We do not deny the abiding role of God’s moral law in exposing our sin (first use) and guiding us in grateful and godly living (third use). So if Reformation Christianity is “antinomian” (the perennial charge from Roman Catholic and Arminian quarters), then it would help if critics would let us know the new definition.

    The conventional wisdom in many Christian circles is that “we need to find the right balance between law and grace, so that we don’t fall into legalism or license.” Although this counsel has a long history, its most recent expression was urged in Jason Hood’s article. The author expresses concern that too many Reformed Christians today are encouraging antinomianism—or at least reveling in the charge. The author especially criticizes appeals to the point made by Martyn Lloyd-Jones (on the basis of Romans 6:1) that if we aren’t accused of antinomianism, we haven’t preached the gospel properly.

    In that verse, Paul asks the rhetorical question that he assumes his treatment of the gospel thus far will provoke: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?” The author of this article points out that Paul immediately answers in the strongest possible terms, “By no means!” Yet his article implies that those of us who invoke Lloyd-Jones’ point might answer otherwise.

    This misunderstanding can be cleared up easily by looking at what Lloyd-Jones goes on to say in that Romans commentary. It could also be cleared up by looking at the sharp denunciations of antinomianism in the Lutheran Book of Concord and the Reformed (Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, Canons of Dort) and Presbyterian standards (Westminster Confession and Catechisms), as well as the Savoy (Congregationalist) and the London Baptist confessions. With Paul, we answer without hesitation,

    By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life (vv 2-4).

    What’s striking is that Paul answers antinomianism not with the law but with more gospel! In other words, antinomians are not people who believe the gospel too much, but too little!


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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by john832 View Post
    Ever read verse 9?

    Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    the word for rest here is Sabbaton. Here is the rendering of the Diaglott...

    Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

    In the margin of my KJV it says the same thing.

    You know, the Ten Commandments were monumental to Israel. There was the need for a church conference and the Apostles got together to discuss the change of circumcision from flesh to the heart. (Acts 15) Why was there never ANY discussion about something so important as a change to one of the Ten Commandments?

    In fact why did Paul teach Gentiles on the Sabbath?

    Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
    Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
    Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

    Why didn't Paul take this opportunity to explain to these folks the Sabbath had been changed to Sunday? Because it hadn't been changed.

    Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

    Here it says it was Paul's manner to teach in this Gentile city on the Sabbath? He missed another golden opportunity to show them the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. He didn't miss anything, there was never any such change.

    And here is yet another opportunity Paul had...

    Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

    Why did he not teach anywhere in the N.T. to observe Sunday?
    another error I noticed.
    If paul was keeping the sabbath, why he didn't stay at home and do no work?
    I thought the Jews are not to do any work on Sabbath?
    here though you see that Paul taught, preached, spoke, persuaded, reasoned?
    hmm Paul should have been put to death, if we want to be fair to the LAW.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by john832 View Post
    You mean to say those Laws are still in force? That is exactly what I have been saying.
    no, I meant what I meant.
    of course the Law is there, Jesus and the New Testament actually sets the bar higher.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by john832 View Post
    Explain to me how that is about the Sabbath. That is more of the same teaching about not offending a weak brother.

    As far as the going to hell thing, I believe something so far different than that it would amaze you.
    which one you want me to explain?
    okay then, please amaze me with your belief.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by john832 View Post
    Saved by grace is absolutely correct, does that exempt you from obeying God? Are we excused if we murder? Commit adultery? Take God's holy name in vain? Doesn't matter anymore because we are under grace?
    no we would know better not to do those things which aren't righteous in the eyes of god.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by leonardronaldo View Post
    another error I noticed.
    If paul was keeping the sabbath, why he didn't stay at home and do no work?
    I thought the Jews are not to do any work on Sabbath?
    here though you see that Paul taught, preached, spoke, persuaded, reasoned?
    hmm Paul should have been put to death, if we want to be fair to the LAW.
    What do you suppose a holy convocation is?

    Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

    convocation...

    H4744
    מקרא
    miqrâ'
    mik-raw'
    From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

    Or how about the very words of the Creator of the Sabbath...

    Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

    He is saying that conducting Sabbath services is blameless.

    Where do you get these Pharisaical ideas from? You need to start studying the Bible and avoiding these teachers telling you this MBFM.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by josh123 View Post
    no we would know better not to do those things which aren't righteous in the eyes of god.
    And tell me how you would know better.

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    In the context of the teaching that was given to the new testament churches, both Jew and Gentile, there is no teaching, instructions or even a suggestion that Christians were obligated or commanded in any way to keep, honor or remember the Sabbath. The Jews continued to gather on the Sabbath but the church is not mentioned in doing so. There is just no record in the scriptures of this happening. Why do you think that is? If any Jew wants to keep or remember the Sabbath to keep it holy, they can do that. However, the churches are under no obligation as far as I can tell. That is my take on this matter. BradC , this is nothing but the truth amen brother

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by john832 View Post
    And tell me how you would know better.
    because when you receive the holy ghost he will guide you...you will just know.. through the holy spirit

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    Default Re: Christ is the Sabbath ( Rest )

    Quote Originally Posted by john832 View Post
    What do you suppose a holy convocation is?

    Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

    convocation...

    H4744
    מקרא
    miqrâ'
    mik-raw'
    From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

    Or how about the very words of the Creator of the Sabbath...

    Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

    He is saying that conducting Sabbath services is blameless.

    Where do you get these Pharisaical ideas from? You need to start studying the Bible and avoiding these teachers telling you this MBFM.
    what's MBFM?
    okay then explain to me this:
    Exodus 16
    29
    See, for the Lord hath given you the Sabbath; therefore He giveth you on the sixth day the bread for two days. Abide ye every man in his place. Let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”
    (so stay at your house all day)
    Exodus 35
    3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the Sabbath day.”
    (fire back then, I supposed a replacement for electricity, so no electricity all day)
    Deuteronomy 5
    14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: In it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates, that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
    (no work in your household may be done)
    Exodus 31
    15 Six days may work be done, but on the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whosoever doeth any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
    Numbers 15
    32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man who gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day.
    33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron and unto all the congregation.
    34 And they put him under guard, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
    35 And the Lord said unto Moses, “The man shall be surely put to death. All the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.”

    (any violators shall be put to death)

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