The Lord's Prayer

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Red_Skull

Guest
#1
#1
I recently found the Lord's Prayer in Aramaic on YouTube:

[video=youtube;6lgYT2g5TTs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lgYT2g5TTs[/video]

Now, I've been trying to find literal translations of it online, but as always on the Internet there are differing opinions on the translation, and I have no knowledge whatsoever of the Aramaic language. The top three Google search results:

(By "None of the Above" this source actually means the two links above, lol)
​

So can anyone here help me? Which is the most accurate? The first one seems very different from the Lord's Prayer as we know it in English.


God Bless

Paul :)
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#2
#2
the lord's prayer as it has come down to us is in greek...anything purporting to be the lord's prayer in aramaic would have to be a -translation- from the biblical greek...such as what you would find in the syriac bible...it would be inaccurate to call it the 'original'...

also i should warn you that some of what you have found appears to actually be a new age text that has been going around under the false name of 'the lord's prayer in aramaic' for a while now...
 
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Red_Skull

Guest
#3
#3
RachelBibleStudent said:
the lord's prayer as it has come down to us is in greek...anything purporting to be the lord's prayer in aramaic would have to be a -translation- from the biblical greek...such as what you would find in the syriac bible...it would be inaccurate to call it the 'original'...

also i should warn you that some of what you have found appears to actually be a new age text that has been going around under the false name of 'the lord's prayer in aramaic' for a while now...
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Thank you, Rachel. Now that is exactly what I'm talking about. For people like me who are very new to Christianity it can be difficult and confusing when you find stuff like this.

I know that the original was in Greek, but it's still cool to know it in Aramaic (even though we have no idea of confirming those were the actual words Christ used, or even the pronunciation in the sung version I linked).
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#4
#4
i want to clarify something to make my warning a little more helpful...

as far as i can tell the actual 'aramaic' text that is being advertised as 'the lord's prayer in aramaic' is an authentic excerpt from the ancient syriac translation of the greek new testament... syriac is somewhat different from the aramaic jesus would have spoken...but it can be considered a good translation into one of the languages of the ancient churches...

the new age text i referred to is an -english- text that claims to be a translation of the authentic syriac text...but really it is an extremely loose paraphrase or worse...

so the syriac 'aramaic' texts you will find are probably going to be acceptable...but you will have to watch out for heretical new age english translations of that text...
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#5
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#5
As you study the Lord's Prayer, it is interesting to read the Amidah. It isn't in the bible, but it is easy to find the text on the net.

This is a prayer that was written when the Jews returned from exile in Babylon, when Nehemiah and Ezra were teaching the Hebrews to be true to God. During this time the Hebrews were rebuilding the temple, and the prayer includes prayers for that, but other than that it is a longer version of the Lord's Prayer and interesting to compare the two prayers.
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#6
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#6
Red_Skull said:
Thank you, Rachel. Now that is exactly what I'm talking about. For people like me who are very new to Christianity it can be difficult and confusing when you find stuff like this.

I know that the original was in Greek, but it's still cool to know it in Aramaic (even though we have no idea of confirming those were the actual words Christ used, or even the pronunciation in the sung version I linked).
Click to expand...
The gospels were originally written in hebrew and copied into greek. New studies have shown this, you may want to study more into that. I'll try and find that info but no promises I don't bookmark everything I read.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#7
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#7
RedTent said:
As you study the Lord's Prayer, it is interesting to read the Amidah. It isn't in the bible, but it is easy to find the text on the net.

This is a prayer that was written when the Jews returned from exile in Babylon, when Nehemiah and Ezra were teaching the Hebrews to be true to God. During this time the Hebrews were rebuilding the temple, and the prayer includes prayers for that, but other than that it is a longer version of the Lord's Prayer and interesting to compare the two prayers.
Click to expand...
so jesus really didn't teach them how to pray?
 
D

danschance

Guest
#8
#8
9“This, then, is how you should pray:“ ‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,[SUP]a[/SUP]

but deliver us from the evil one.[SUP]b[/SUP] ’ Matt 6:9-13
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“ ‘Father,[SUP]a[/SUP]hallowed be your name,your kingdom come.[SUP]b[/SUP]3Give us each day our daily bread.4Forgive us our sins,for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[SUP]c[/SUP]And lead us not into temptation.[SUP]d[/SUP] ’ ” Luke 11:1-4
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It is in the bible but Redtent is right in that the one we think of as the Lord's prayer is not exactly word for word in the bible. and it is an awesome prayer. The one thing many Christians might not realize is that the Lord's prayer is a daily prayer. The last line of that prayer "but deliver us from evil." does imply that "evil" is a real threat to the christian. I have read someone's opinion that satan is defeated impotent weakling, much to the contrary of plain scripture.
 
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J

john832

Senior Member
#9
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#9
Red_Skull said:
I recently found the Lord's Prayer in Aramaic on YouTube:

[video=youtube;6lgYT2g5TTs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lgYT2g5TTs[/video]

Now, I've been trying to find literal translations of it online, but as always on the Internet there are differing opinions on the translation, and I have no knowledge whatsoever of the Aramaic language. The top three Google search results:
(By "None of the Above" this source actually means the two links above, lol)
​

So can anyone here help me? Which is the most accurate? The first one seems very different from the Lord's Prayer as we know it in English.


God Bless

Paul :)
Click to expand...
I have always taken this one to be accurate...

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. - KJV
 
D

danschance

Guest
#10
#10
john832 said:
I have always taken this one to be accurate...

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. - KJV
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Interesting.. It is complete in the KJV but not other versions??
 
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john832

Senior Member
#11
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#11
I didn't say that, I said that I have alway held this one as accurate.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#13
Jul 2, 2011
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#13
It is certain when I post ths many will come back saying I am wrong for believing what the Word dictates on the behavior of Yeshua while He was carrying out His mission for each of us.

It stands to reason and sense, if the pharisees, the Sadducee's were constantly attempting to catch our Savior in His religious practice or words, He would have taught and spoken in the language of the Holy Scriptures of the Children of Israel, ergo He would have taught in Hebrew.

No scholar can say with certainty He spoke and taught in Aramaic, however input with reason is welcome.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#14
#14
is it wrong to pray:
"forgive us our sins as we forgive them have sinned against us"
rather than:
and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors
or:
forgive us our transgressions as we forgive them that have transgressed against us
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#15
Jul 2, 2011
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#15
I believe if we are to be as Yeshua, we most overlook the harm done to us and learn to forgive all, otherwise we are indeed judging others to condemnation in our hearts. If you and I are not forgiven, the guilt of our sin remains for we have judged to condemnation without the gift of judgment, and with our judgment we, ourselves, will be judged.

When I think of the time when judgment will be handed over to the saints, honestly, although many times I may feel a righteous anger with some who seem to be my enemy, I cannot imagine my sending anyone to the outer darkness. I would ask for them to be forgiven.

Now come that time, when judgment is handed over to the saints and I be included, with the gift of judgment this attitude could and may well change. I cannot say.

This attitude was underscored just a few minutes ago in my reading in Ezekiel this morning when I read how our Father takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Praise Yahweh.

Yes, pray this from the heart always.
 
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Red_Skull

Guest
#16
#16
Graybeard said:
is it wrong to pray:
"forgive us our sins as we forgive them have sinned against us"
rather than:
and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors
or:
forgive us our transgressions as we forgive them that have transgressed against us
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As far as I know men cannot forgive sins.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#17
#17
This one is in one of the oldest English, Anglo Saxon, medieval....

[video=youtube;7Wl-OZ3breE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wl-OZ3breE[/video]
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#18
Jul 2, 2011
21,230
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#18
Even a pagan is able to forgive the sins of others against him. I believe you are referring to passing a soul to the Kingdom of Yahweh, this too will be handed over to the saints, but not in this age.


Red_Skull said:
As far as I know men cannot forgive sins.
Click to expand...
 
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Red_Skull

Guest
#19
#19
JaumeJ said:
Even a pagan is able to forgive the sins of others against him. I believe you are referring to passing a soul to the Kingdom of Yahweh, this too will be handed over to the saints, but not in this age.
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Sure, but the Lord's Prayer would then compare/equate forgiveness of sins from God (access to His Kingdom) to forgiveness of sins from others in the same sentence. I'm not knowledgeable enough of the Bible to be certain of this, but from what I've read and been told so far our sins are already forgiven through Jesus Christ, and he told us to "sin no more" and get access to God's Kingdom through him. Why should we then ask for forgiveness for sins (which only God could do) if it is already done? "Trespasses" or "debts" seems more reasonable.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#20
Jul 2, 2011
21,230
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#20
Examining the grammar, we do compare our act of forgiving with Yahweh's supreme pardon, however it is not the same, we are to emulate Yeshua in forgiving those who wrong us.

If you think on it just for a moment, our Lord on the cross forgave everyone what they had done to Him, that is they crucified Him. He forgave them, but until individuals repent, they have not received forgiveness for they have not accepted it. Salvation is a gift, but it must be accepted or even His wonderful life and sacrifice can be of no avail to him.

Our forgiving others is not a pass for them to be in the Kingdom with us. They must first yield to Yeshua's gift by accepting it, that is unconditional pardon of sins.

If someone steals from me, I really am able to forgive him, but when thast thief comes before our Savior, if he is unrepentent, and our Lord knows all.
 
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