Antinomianism

[starfield]

Hi starfield,

Antinomianism #3:
“Christ-centered Antinomianism,” which “argues that God sees no sin in believers, because they are in Christ, who kept the law for them, and therefore what they actually do makes no difference, provided that they keep believing”;

This fits the circumstances of the thief on the cross. He believed in Jesus. There was no good behavior or works of the law that could add to his entry into paradise.

Are you proposing that Christians must attain some minimum standard of good behavior or else we're lost?

Also, I did mention in my previous post that God disciplines us should we do wrong.
However our weakness/failures are not "sin" that can be charged against us.

That statement contradicts 1 John 1:8-9 and 2:1-2. Note that John was addressing Christians.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:8-9).

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:1-2).

We wouldn't need an advocate if we are sinless neither would we need to confess our sins.

 

[haz]

That statement contradicts 1 John 1:8-9 and 2:1-2. Note that John was addressing Christians.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:8-9).

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:1-2).

We wouldn't need an advocate if we are sinless neither would we need to confess our sins.

Firstly, lets consider God's definitions of "sin".
Scripture says that christians have "ceased from sin" (1pet 4:1), "cannot sin" (1John 3:9).
This is not however, referring to our behavior, as the physical is not perfect.

Remember that in Christ we are justified by faith, hence Satan, the accuser, can no longer charge us with sin.
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


Below are a few examples of God's definitions of sin that will show why Christians cannot be charged with sin:

Unrighteousness, 1John 5:17 (Christians are righteous in Christ, so in this regard we do not sin)
Unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9 (Christians believe in Jesus, so in this regard we do not sin)
Trangression of the law, 1John 3:4 (Christians are not under the law, so in this regard we do not sin)

Regarding sin/transgression of the law, Christians cannot be accused of this sin as we are not under the law of sin and death.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets free from the law of sin and death, (Rom 8:2).
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness," Rom 10:4.
Also note Ga; 4:25, Gal 5:18, 2Cor 3:7-9 and 1Tim 1:9

Regarding the law of sin and death it should be noted that:
“whatever the law says it says to those who are under it” (Rom 3:19).
“the law was not made for a righteous person (Christians), but for…the ungodly and for sinners” (1Tim 1:9).
“where there is no law there is no transgression (SIN)” (Rom 4:15).

Only our past sin was dealt with at the cross.
Rom 3:25: "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,"

It was only our past sins that were forgiven. That means there is no more forgiveness of sin after this as sin was finally dealt with at the cross. Christ's sacrifice totally purged/cleansed us of sin. After that there is no more subsequent sin because our righteousness is not judged by deeds of the law anymore. Instead our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

When we are in Christ, believing in him, then we are righteous (Rom 4:5), sanctified (Heb 10:10), holy (Rom 11:16) and perfected (Heb 10:14), hence Satan, the accuser, cannot charge us with sin, Rom 8:33.

Consider also 1Pet 4:18
“If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear”.
Clearly there are 2 different groups described here.
Group 1: Righteous (and saved).
Group 2: Ungodly/Sinner (unsaved).
Either we are righteous (in Christ) OR we are sinners. We can't be both.

In Christ we have "ceased from sin", 1Pet 4:1
How have we "ceased from sin?

We believe in Jesus, thus our old man has been crucified with him, Rom 6:6.
Now, I no longer live but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20. And in Christ there is no sin, 1John 3:5

1Pet 4:1
“Therefore, since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him. Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has ceased from sin”.

And this is also confirmed by 1John 3:9
“Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed (Christ) remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God”.

Truly Jesus set us free from sin (John 8:36).

On a separate point, regarding our obvious physical failings/wrongs, we will not profit in doing them. Although our righteousness is not determined by this, there are physical consequences for any wrongs we do. Consider King David with his adultery/murder. He was disciplined by God.

But in regards to our righteousness, our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
We are born of God (1John 5:1) and cannot sin (1John 3:9). So Satan, the accuser, cannot charge us with sin, Rom 8:33.

 

[haz]

That statement contradicts 1 John 1:8-9 and 2:1-2. Note that John was addressing Christians.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:8-9).

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:1-2).

We wouldn't need an advocate if we are sinless neither would we need to confess our sins.

Having defined "sin" in my previous post, which "sin" do you think 1John 1:8-9 speaks of if it refers to Christians?

Does it speak of the sin of transgression of the law (1John 3:4)?
No, as were not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 4:25, Gal 5:18, 2Cor 3:7, 1Tim 1:9).

Does it speak of the sin of unrighteousness (1John 5:17)?
No, as our faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5).

Does it speak of the sin of unbelief in Jesus (John 16:9)?
No, as Christians believe on Jesus.

Note also the evangelical context of 1John 1 from the beginning of the chapter.
It bears witness and declares eternal life to others so that they too may be able to fellowship with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. It's preaching the gospel to those who say they have fellowship (professing to know Him) but are actually walking in darkness (without Christ/unbelief), 1John 1:6.

If 1John 1:8,9 referred to Christians then that contradicts 1John 3:6-9 which says that Christians cannot sin.

Jesus is our advocate. When we first received Christ we repented of our dead works (sin). And remember only past sin was remitted at the cross (Rom 3:25). After that we've ceased from sin (1Pet 4:1) as we're no longer under the law seeking to establish our own righteousness (dead works/sin). Instead our faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5).

 

[Hoffco]

oHi, My friends, It is a very small world with out our heroes in the faith. Heb. 11 has been expanding since day one, I hope some one will add my name, after I'm dead, of course. Dr. Packer is one of my heroes. I God has given him much incite into His word. He has given us a great summary of the heresy of antinomianism. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[brmicke]

You are truly preaching a false gospel. You feel you "cannot sin" simply because you feel better when you deceive yourself into thinking that you are sinless in some obscure spiritual manner. Like the ostrich you bury your head in the ground and say peace, peace.

Actually -

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

People who think this way get it absolutely backwards. They think that they cannot sin because they feel they abide in Christ. When the scriptural fact is that they cannot say they abide in Christ if they sin.

Brian

 

[tribesman]

A Treatise Against the Antinomians <-link (Luther on antinomianism).

 

[haz]

You are truly preaching a false gospel. You feel you "cannot sin" simply because you feel better when you deceive yourself into thinking that you are sinless in some obscure spiritual manner. Like the ostrich you bury your head in the ground and say peace, peace.

Actually -

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

People who think this way get it absolutely backwards. They think that they cannot sin because they feel they abide in Christ. When the scriptural fact is that they cannot say they abide in Christ if they sin.

Brian

Hi Brian,

Again we disagree.

What I see from the doctrine you follow is that you believe you are of the devil (1John 3:8) until the day you consistently obey the law perfectly.

The danger I see with such doctrines is that it's treading underfoot the Son of God and counting the blood of the covenant wherewith we were sanctified, as an unholy thing (Heb 10:29). Such doctrines do not accept righteousness by faith. Instead they seek righteousness by works of the law, which is fornication with Hagar (Gal 4:24).

Those under such doctrines as you propose are actually sinning against their own body.

1Cor 6:15-19
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot (Hagar/righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24)? God forbid.What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Flee fornication (with Hagar/righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24). Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication (with Hagar) sinneth against his own body.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

The doctrine you follow rejects the will of God that we abstain from fornication with Hagar (1Thess 4:3).


By the way, the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord", believed on Jesus and entered into paradise.
But the doctrine you follow describes believing in Jesus as a mere feeling and meaningless unless there is perfect obedience to the law to go with it. Such doctrines are a lukewarm mix of grace plus works of the law. You cannot mix these 2.

Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.