smoking & drinking

[WhereToGo]

This is a subject I have argued with myself and others about for a while now. It seems whenever I ask a Christian if it is wrong to smoke and/or drink, they always give 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 as a reason to not smoke or drink,

"(16)Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? (17)If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

Now after reading that I think, ok, what does the Bible say defiles me? Matthew 15:10-11,

"(10)And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
(11)Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man"

This is repeated in Mark 7:15, " There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

That says to me that there is NOTHING that I can put in my body that defiles it, only the things I speak or act on can defile me. The fact that this is repeated, and that Jesus essentially says "LISTEN UP!" in Matthew 15:10 shows me that this is a point he really wanted us to understand.

I can't see any possible way that smoking can defile the body, unless you put smoking before God and idolize it.

Now for drinking, there ARE Scriptures against being a drunk. That is repeated.. however in Luke 22:17-18 Jesus seems to say that he won't drink wine (fruit of the vine) until the kingdom of God shall come. My view if he is EVER going to do it, it can't be a sin, in and of itself.

Also he turned the water into wine, if it was a sin, wouldn't he be causing others to sin, making him sin? Since he is sinless, I don't see how a drink can be a sin.

Some people can socially drink, some can only drink until they get drunk. If you are able to keep it in moderation, which is what Timothy is all about, then I don't see how this can be a sin. If you have to get drunk every time you drink, then you should avoid it.

I know what the organized churches say, I know what the public perception is.. "oooh.. isn't he a Christian?? but he's smoking!!" but I just can't find where they are getting their beliefs from. I don't read anything along these lines, everything I read points to what you say and do, not what you take in, that defiles you.

 

[carpetmanswife]

i have battled this one myself...often, I personally dont think smoking or drinking is a sin, getting drunk yes thats sin.. what we must remember is that our lives are to reflect Christ and no we wont ever be perfect in this life but we should strive to b Christlike . Others do look at us and cast judgement on christianity , wrongly so but thats the way it is. the word says if something we do offends our brother dont do it *paraphrased of course* also in the same token many are 'delivered ' from these things instantly upon conversion , many are not, and we shouldnt cast judgement on those who still battle these things ,,thats not our place. we are all a work in progress and will be until the day of redemption we must try and help to build each other up ,not tear one another down.Gb

 

[4given30]

smoking is an addiction as well as a bad habit and smokers often think about smoking as its what their body wants and desires.so a christian who is thinking about their habit canot always be available when it comes to obeying god or even listening to him.the sin may not be the actuall smoking itself but is more the who am i serving like the whole money issue.
if one chooses to damage their body-the temple which means they are more likely to die early then god will allow that person to make that choice- mind you with loud 'hello im here, give it up i want u's" along the way then the person is not living to their fullest and missing out on awsome things god has in store.
i DONT think the issue is sin when it comes to booze and smokes(if addicted) but it is availability -and one cant be if they are giving all their attention to somthing else which their body craves 24/7
God wants us to be available so he can use us to do his work but if we be working do to our own stuff and serving our needs and desires(addictions) then what can a god who gives us choice do but let us fall until we either wake up or not due to our silly mistakes when we know outcomes

 

[oneholyfire]

Several years ago I heard a popular evangelist say : You won't go to hell if you smoke, you'll just smell like you've been there. Ha But in all seriousness, one of the things that is so wonderful about our relationship with Jesus Christ is all the GRACE He extends to us. I think Christians can be very condemning and legalistic toward one another when considering this controversial subject. But God is certainly more loving and merciful. Do I believe that God wants us free from nicotine addiction?, you bet, its affects are extremely damaging to the body. But should we look down on those who are battling and struggling with this issue, absolutely not. I speak GRACE to that mountain. On New Years Eve several of my Christian friends gathered together for fellowship. Shortly after midnight we gathered in a circle and decided to "pray in" the New Year. Almost immediately one friend turned to another in our group and she began praying for her to be released from her nicotine addiction. She literally prayed that every craving and temptation to smoking be cut off in Jesus name. That night, a decade- long habit was broken and she hasn't smoked since. I truly believe that God desires to provide that kind of healing for everyone who will seek after it. And I am believing today that the same healing power that was released that night, be released here to all who read this. Be blessed in Jesus name !!

 

[eagleheart]

the word christian,means to be like Jesus

I cant imazine Jesus walking down the streets of jerusalem sipping on a bud,or smoking a camel

the nazarite made a vow to god not to cut his hair defile himself with strong drink,or anything else,you say I am not a nazarite,and did not make a vow to God.
Oh,but you did! the moment you repented of your sins and received Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior,you made a vow to God,that you would live a holy life,according to His Word,and that you would follow in the footsteps of Jesus.

 

[1still_waters]

Just my opinion here..

1 Corinthians 10: 23"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."[c]
27If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake[d]— 29the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.


1 Corinthians 6 : 12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."[b] 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.


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This is just my opinion....



This is another issue that balances freedom in Christ, legalism and not offending a brother and sister in the faith.


Twice in Corinthians Paul talks about things being permiissible, but not beneficial. In one set of verses he speaks of using the concerns of others as a guideline to do or not do something. In the other set he uses the issue of whether or not you're mastered by the thing, as a guideline to do or not do something. Another criteria is whether it's being done for the glory of God.


These three guidelines need to be looked at then...
1. Is my activity causing others to stumble?
2.Am I being mastered by this activity?
3.Is this activity for the glory of God?


We need to make sure we don't use these guidelines as a means to enforce our own personal legalism on others. For example, is eating an Oreo really glorifying God? Eh, probably not, but it doesn't rob glory from him either. It's just kind of a neutral thing. Be careful of imposing legalistic standards on very neutral things.


These things really come down to a matter of conscience. Use the guidelines to make your own personal decisions on areas of our faith the Bible may not clearly spell out, but don't use these guidelines as a means of judging and bringing condemnation on others.


If you feel strongly about something a fellow believer is doing and you think it is wrong, then lovingly confront them and state your case.

 

[Baptistrw]

If alcohol is ok to drink, why are we prohibited from looking at it when it becomes fermented? Proverbs 23:29-35, Habakkuk 2:14, Proverbs 20:1. When it comes to Jesus turning water into wine, one needs to be aware that the word "wine" is a generic term meaning fruit of the vine. So it was not alcoholic wine. It was grape juice. Fermentation would have damaged the purity of it, as leaven does to bread. Alcohol is ok for medicinal use (I Tim. 5:13), as it does have some use, but as a beverage it is prohibited. We're to be holy and separated from the world, and giving into a substance that ruins and wrecks lives is definately not holy.

 

[1still_waters]

If alcohol is ok to drink, why are we prohibited from looking at it when it becomes fermented? Proverbs 23:29-35, Habakkuk 2:14, Proverbs 20:1. When it comes to Jesus turning water into wine, one needs to be aware that the word "wine" is a generic term meaning fruit of the vine. So it was not alcoholic wine. It was grape juice. Fermentation would have damaged the purity of it, as leaven does to bread. Alcohol is ok for medicinal use (I Tim. 5:13), as it does have some use, but as a beverage it is prohibited. We're to be holy and separated from the world, and giving into a substance that ruins and wrecks lives is definately not holy.

People seem very selective of when wine means alcohol and when it just means grape juice.

Proverbs 20:1 “Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise”

So if wine is just grape juice, then this verse is basically saying, "Grape juice is a mocker"....

Of course in this instance 'wine' will be considered more than just grape juice.

If wine is just grape juice then in Ephesians 5:18 KJV

18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Is Paul instructing them to not get drunk on grape juice?

If wine is just grape juice, how in the world can you get drunk on it?

In my humble opinion I think many have what I'll call 'selective grape-juiceism'.

 

[WhereToGo]

Wedding feasts in ancient times many times happened over several days, if not an entire week. You really think everyone was only drinking grape juice during a 7 day party?

 

[Baptistrw]

Context is the key to the usage of a word in any language. As I said, wine is a generic term in the original languages. Wine can be fermented, or unfermented. It's easier and less disturbing to think Jesus made grape juice than to think that Jesus made something that the Bible prohibits using. I think of all people, Jesus would know the effects of alcohol on humanity. God doesn't tempt anyone to sin, so I highly doubt Jesus would have tempted people with a substance that leads to drunkenness at the wedding.

 

[lil-rush]

I think of all people, Jesus would know the effects of alcohol on humanity. God doesn't tempt anyone to sin, so I highly doubt Jesus would have tempted people with a substance that leads to drunkenness at the wedding.

Let's see, 613 mitzvot total.
27 about food and drink. of those 27 none mention wine.
10 mitzvot set aside for Nazarites (who were select Hebrews who consecrated themselves for God, an elite group of followers if you will). 1 forbiddening Nazarites, and Nazarites alone, from drinking wine, 1 from partaking in grapes, and 1 from partaking in raisens.
Approx 46 mitzvot about idolaters. 1 law saying to not drink wine that idolaters drink.
33 mitzvot about the temple. 1 law saying priests cannot enter the tabernacle while inebriated.

So let's see, 613 mitzvot, only 5 pertaining to wine. none of which forbid the general Hebrew population from partaking in wine. Now please do tell me why God would forbid specific instances of wine/grape juice, but would not forbid it completely? Perhaps because God never intended to forbid His chosen people from drinking alcohol. Now perhaps you could also tell me why you think we as Christians cannot drink wine if God's chosen people can? That seems a great deal like a double-standard to me, and I was of the understanding that God does not have double-standards since double-standards can just be interpreted as a nice way of calling someone a hypocrite or a liar.

 

[Shawn]

Lil-Rush you just said what I was thinking. The LAWS of God are in the first 5 books of the O.T. and there is no prohibition for drinking alcoholic wine for the general population. This is why religious Jewish people don't see a problem with it. They're quite familiar with what the Laws are. And as far as prohibitions in Proverbs or in any of the books of the prophets, let's take a look at the ones cited.

Habakkuk 2:14- "Woe to him who gives his neighbor drink, pouring out your wineskin, and also making him drunk, that you may look on their nakedness!"

That doesn't say not to drink, it says not to give your neighbor drink to make him drunk so you can put him to shame. It may possibly refer to taking advantage of someone by making him drunk...

And in Proverbs, read in context it's a mother instructing her son the King not to be a raging alcoholic because drunkeness leads to poor judgment and bad things. Proverbs are wise sayings for a good life, they're not quite the same as God's Laws. Following them is wise, not following then is not always sin and unlike LAWS and commandments, there are exceptions to the rules so to speak. I just don't read this as saying someone who has one glass of wine with a meal with their spouse for their anniversary is commiting a sin.

The strongest words against drinking are probably in the N.T. But again we are told drunkards/alcoholics will not inherit the Kingdom. There's a difference between someone who drinks on occasion and in moderation and someone who is an alcoholic, consumed with drinking.

When the Bible tells us Jesus turned the water into wine it uses the Greek word oinos. That means wine. If it was to clearly be unfermented grape juice, then the words chymos stafylis could have been used. Wine was not a generic term for both types of drinks in Greek...

Jesus was often called a winebibber....I don't think they were criticizing Him for drinking too much grape juice. But they were of course criticizing Him wrongly because He was never drunk.

And maybe someone can help me out with this, but isn't there a passage where Paul chides some people for getting drunk on communion wine? Yet he never says the wine should not have been alcoholic in the first place, just that they drank so much that others had none? I can't quite remember where the verse is so it may not even prove my point...just thought I'd see if anyone knows what I'm refering to there?

Now, so that no one thinks I'm saying this as an excuse to drink, I do not drink. I have not had a strong drink since the day I was saved. I WAS an alcoholic and God delivered me from it. So even though I don't think it's sin for everyone to have an occasional drink, I don't think it's something I should do because of my own circumstances. I'm the kind of person that did have a problem with it. And so do a lot of other people so like Paul warned, don't do anything to cause your brother or sister to stumble.

To use a verse that 1Still-Waters quoted:

1 Corinthians 6 : 12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything.

I may be wrong, but I just don't see it as clearly a sin for someone to have a rare occasional drink. And I see no problem with alcoholic wine in communion because I believe that's what was always used and it's not enough for someone to get drunk on. But if grape juice is used like in my Church, that's fine too. It's still the same fruit of the vine. But I say if you're confused by it all, ere on the side of caution and just don't drink. There's nothing great about it anyways and it CAN lead some into addiction. I certainly could be wrong and since there's not much of a benefit to it anyway, why do it. Pepsi and chocolate milk taste much better

 

[carpetmanswife]

pespi and chocolate milk done give u a headache either

 

[Baptistrw]

Let's see, 613 mitzvot total.
27 about food and drink. of those 27 none mention wine.
10 mitzvot set aside for Nazarites (who were select Hebrews who consecrated themselves for God, an elite group of followers if you will). 1 forbiddening Nazarites, and Nazarites alone, from drinking wine, 1 from partaking in grapes, and 1 from partaking in raisens.
Approx 46 mitzvot about idolaters. 1 law saying to not drink wine that idolaters drink.
33 mitzvot about the temple. 1 law saying priests cannot enter the tabernacle while inebriated.

So let's see, 613 mitzvot, only 5 pertaining to wine. none of which forbid the general Hebrew population from partaking in wine. Now please do tell me why God would forbid specific instances of wine/grape juice, but would not forbid it completely? Perhaps because God never intended to forbid His chosen people from drinking alcohol. Now perhaps you could also tell me why you think we as Christians cannot drink wine if God's chosen people can? That seems a great deal like a double-standard to me, and I was of the understanding that God does not have double-standards since double-standards can just be interpreted as a nice way of calling someone a hypocrite or a liar.

See Proverbs 23. Let's use your logic for a second. In I Timothy 3 it says bishops were supposed to be sober. But wait, isn't drunkeness a sin? But it only says bishops were supposed to be sober! All believers are supposed to abstain, but those who have a higher calling have a stricter mandate because of their God appointed office and gift and because of their office, they are being watched by others.

 

[NoahsDad]

See Proverbs 23. Let's use your logic for a second. In I Timothy 3 it says bishops were supposed to be sober. But wait, isn't drunkeness a sin? But it only says bishops were supposed to be sober! All believers are supposed to abstain, but those who have a higher calling have a stricter mandate because of their God appointed office and gift and because of their office, they are being watched by others.

C'mon......is that all you could come up with?
hahahahahahaahha

 

[carpetmanswife]

ok who was gonna tell me to use my spell check next time eh????

 

[lil-rush]

See Proverbs 23. Let's use your logic for a second. In I Timothy 3 it says bishops were supposed to be sober. But wait, isn't drunkeness a sin? But it only says bishops were supposed to be sober! All believers are supposed to abstain, but those who have a higher calling have a stricter mandate because of their God appointed office and gift and because of their office, they are being watched by others.

Proverbs 23: 19-21 "hear, my son, and be wise; and guide your heart in the way. Do not mix with winebibbers," Winebibbers, that's an interesting word. meaning: a person who drinks much wine. "or with gluttonous eaters of meat;" well dang. there goes half the American population I'd say. "For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and drowsiness will clothe a man with rags." So, drunkard -meaning: a person who is habitually drunk- and a glutton, meaning: a person who eats and drinks excessively or voraciously.

Soooooo, if you are going to tell me not to drink at all, I'm going to tell you not to eat. Because you are taking scripture out of context. Because proverbs 23 is talking of drunks and gluttons. If you want to reduce the meaning of drunk to one who simply drinks, then I am going to reduce the meaning of glutton to one who simply eats. And there you have it.

1 Timothy 3: 1-2 "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be ..." Tell me how it is that you think instructions given specifically to a bishop are for everyone as well? If my mom says to me "Hollie clean your room," does she mean by that for my brother and sister to clean my room with me, or is she simply saying "Hollie clean your room"? You cannot take instructions given to one person and make them apply to everyone. It simply is not logical.

 

[Baptistrw]

Food is clean. So that argument is flawed, try another. Proverbs 23 is not out of context. Solomon knew a thing or two about drunkeness and vanity, so he was simply warning about the dangers and foolishness of drinking booze. If the wisest man who ever lived says not to look at it when its fermented (verse 31), I think he should be listened to. Old Testament priests were prohibited from being drinking before entering the tabernacle, we are New Testament priests and we are the tabernacle. So how are we allowed?

 

[WhereToGo]

1 Timothy 5:23 "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities"

Psalms 104:14-15 "(14)He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; (15)And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart"

Plus 1 Timothy 4:3 is a freebie thrown in for anyone who thinks the Bible tells us not to eat meat.

 

[Baptistrw]

Alcohol is permitted for medicinal use, e.g. Nyquil. Anyways, I'm done discussing this.