Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

was Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?


  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
A

Ariel82

Guest
in case you missed it:

For those who are interested. I found this article interesting:

Revelation 18:11-13 presents us with the merchandise of Babylon.

For the most part this merchandise falls into two general categories:

verse 12 lists the commodities used in the furnishings of the Temple and the most sacred attire of the high priest;

verse 13 lists commodities used in the Temple sacrifices and offerings.

Revelation 18:11-13
11 “And the merchants of the earth [the Land] will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore:
12. “merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble;
13. “and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men.”

The first question that comes to mind is, why is John providing so much detail about Babylon’s merchandise?
How does it add to the narrative?

This list of items is an example—the most extensive in Revelation—of physical referents being intertwined in a symbol to aid in the identification of that symbol. As I have mentioned, harlot Babylon is not a literal city (not even Jerusalem). It is a symbol of a community of people—God’s unfaithful old covenant community. This community was centered in the Temple at Jerusalem and thus is being represented by images associated with the Temple and the priesthood. If Babylon were simply a literal city, this list of items would add little to the narrative; these items could be found in any great city.35 If, on the other hand, Babylon is a symbol of unfaithful Israel and her Temple, suddenly this merchandise makes perfect sense
The Merchandise of Mystery Babylon (Jerusalem) - Sovereign Grace Preterism

I don't agree with everything the author writes but I do agree with what the symbolism of the merchandise represents and who Babylon the Whore is.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
interesting Ariel.

The Currency of Tyre Was the Currency of the Temple




A Tyrian shekel, 116/115 BC. (Left) Obverse: Laureate head of
Melqarth-Herakles; (Right) Reverse: Eagle.


"Again, the reason John includes allusions to the loss of the commerce of Tyre (Ezekiel 26-28) in his description of Babylon’s demise is most probably because the currency of Tyre was the currency of the Temple. Jeremias writes the following on this:

There is also evidence of commerce with Tyre in the frequent equivalents drawn between the Jerusalem money and the Tyrian. According to T[almud], Ket[uboth] xiii.3 and elsewhere, the Jerusalem standard of currency was the same as the Tyrian. The prevalence of the Tyrian standard is explained not only by the brisk trade which went on, but also because in the Temple only Tyrian currency was allowed.45 (underlined emphasis mine)

Revelation 18’s allusion to the commerce of Tyre thus contains an allusion to the commerce of the Temple. The commercialization of the Temple was one of the few things that caused Jesus to become angry (“. . . Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” John 2:13-16). The moneychangers that Jesus was so upset with would have been changing currency from around the world into Tyrian currency for the Temple offerings. Von Wahlde writes the following on this:

Money changers were necessary to convert common Roman currency into silver Tyrian coinage, the only coinage acceptable for the Temple offering . . . According to the Mishnah, the Temple offering was to be done in Tyrian coinage, which was silver

. . . The Tyrian shekel was not aniconic [i.e., was not free of graven images] and therefore was not a neutral or “holy” coin. On the obverse it contained an image, and in fact the image of a pagan god (Melkart-Herakles); on the reverse was a Tyrian eagle and the inscription “Tyre, the holy and inviolable.” This would make the Tyrian half-shekel inherently offensive, at least to more devout Jews, and especially as a Temple offering. According to this argument, rather than change the law requiring silver coins [for the offering], the authorities allowed the use of the Tyrian silver shekel, bowing to political and economic considerations.46

Shockingly, the idolatrous currency of Tyre was the currency of the Temple.47 The leaders of the Temple seemed more concerned with the purity of their silver (cf. Matt. 23:16-22) than the purity of God’s command against graven images of pagan deities!

With the nationalist fervor that accompanied the outbreak of the Jewish War in AD 66, the image of Melkart on these coins was replaced with an image of a ritual chalice and a string of pearls. On the reverse, instead of “Tyre, the holy . . . .” it now read “Jerusalem the holy.”

'The Freedom of Zion'
Struck 66-70




Shekel of Israel, 1st revolt, 67-68 CE (year 2), AR, 13.6g 13/16" dia.

O: Chalice/Omer cup with pearled rim (shekel of Israel) around (year 2) chalice
(back side, stem with pearled bottom and three pomegranates (Jerusalem the Holy))


48 Compare this with Revelation’s image of the harlot being adorned with pearls, having a chalice in her hand, and the name “BABYLON THE GREAT . . . .” on her forehead (Rev. 17:4-5).

While it is not totally clear whether idol worship took place in the Temple, there is no question that there were idols in its treasury—millions of little silver ones. Sanders notes that “the widespread use of the Tyrian coinage in Palestine shows that the temple’s requirement reversed the doctrine that bad money drives out good and also overcame the general dislike of coins with images of people or deities. This gives a good idea of the temple’s ‘clout’.”49 It is also a good example of the inhabitants of the land being “made drunk with the wine of her fornication” (Rev. 17:2).

Dan Bahat, quoting the Tosefta (Kethuboth 13:20), notes that “Tyrian money was so invested in life in Judah that ‘Whenever the Torah says money, then it is Tyrian money, and what is Tyrian money? Tyrian money is Jerusalemite [money].’”50 (brackets in original)

The Merchandise of Mystery Babylon (Jerusalem) - Sovereign Grace Preterism < click



The shekel, with the laureate head of Melqarth-Herakles (a pagan deity) on the obverse and an eagle (a graven image) on the reverse, averaged 14.2 gm in weight and contained at least 94 per cent silver. These coins were minted in Tyre between 126/125 BC and 19/18 BC. After the Roman government closed the Tyre mint, these coins continued to be minted at an unknown mint, probably in or near Jerusalem, from 18/17 BC until AD 69/70. The Jewish coin makers continued to strike coins with the image of Melqarth-Herakles and the eagle. This was contrary to the clear teachings of the Word of God (Ex 20:3, 4: Dt. 4:16–18; 5:8). Yet the rabbis declared that the Tyrian shekels were the only legal currency that was acceptable in the Temple (Hendin 2001:420–29; 2002:46, 47). The rabbis decided that the commandment to give the half-shekel Temple tax, with its proper weight and purity, was more important than the prohibition of who or what image was on the coin.

The Tyrian Shekel and the Temple of Jerusalem < click
 
Last edited:

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
in case you missed it:

The Merchandise of Mystery Babylon (Jerusalem) - Sovereign Grace Preterism

I don't agree with everything the author writes but I do agree with what the symbolism of the merchandise represents and who Babylon the Whore is.
....harlot Babylon is not a literal city (not even Jerusalem). It is a symbol of a community of people—God’s unfaithful old covenant community. This community was centered in the Temple at Jerusalem and thus is being represented by images associated with the Temple and the priesthood....


i can certainly agree with that, in part - interesting!:)

maybe just a slight broadening of Mystery Babylon to the "unfaithful old covenant community", for which Jerusalem was the center is all that's needed - though anyone would have thought this is implicit in all the symbolism of the woman.

this had been about The Covenant. obviously the covenant was with the people of the city...and with the people would did not reside in that city, but made pilgrimages to it (see Acts 2: 1-11 - Pentecost).

70AD is pretty strong evidence that when Jesus said "these are the days of vengeance" He meant it.

-

so i now have a slightly revised interpretation of Revelation 17:5:

and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

BABYLON THE GREAT was the "unfaithful old covenant community", whose center was Jerusalem.

Revelation11:8
Their dead bodies will lie in the public square of the great city, which prophetically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. - Holman
 
Oct 12, 2012
1,563
929
113
68
I agree, they were all tied together: The Holy Covenant City (Jerusalem); the Holy Covenant people- (Old Covenant Israel, the chosen people of God, from Christ back to Adam); the Holy Covenant Land-(of Israel); and the Holy Temple (where Israel found forgiveness looking forward to Christ). All of them stood as a system together, and all of them fell together in 70 AD. .....there shall not be one stone left upon another...... Is the Thud heard round the world!
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
Not trying to derail , just wondering this is fullfilled by tyrian shekel or something else your thoughts ?

The Mark of the Beast

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

God bless :)
 
Jun 18, 2013
820
270
63
I just went through the link below.

IS JERUSALEM “MYSTERY BABYLON”? | Right Word Truth
Google search link
https://www.google.co.in/?gws_rd=cr#fp=cfaa46a217674a9&q=mystery+babylon+is+not+jerusalem

INTRODUCTION
I must confess that the first time I heard that “Mystery Babylon” is Jerusalem, my immediate reaction was, “Oh I don’t think so, because God loved Jerusalem, but His angels rejoiced over the destruction of “Mystery Babylon”. My thoughts went to Luke 13:34, where we read, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!”. Here Christ compared Himself to a hen who would gather her brood, even though they had killed the prophets. Had it not been for the setting aside of Israel at Acts 28, that statement would have been made just a few decades before the destruction of Mystery Babylon in the day of God’s vengeance.
Bearing that in mind, let us consider the reaction of God’s angels at the destruction of the city. Consider, for example, Rev. 19:1, “And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God”. And again in verse 3, “And again they said, ‘Alleluia‘”. And again in verse 6, “Alleluia: for the Lord God Omnipotent reigneth”.
My point is that there was great rejoicing in heaven at the destruction of this city. And rightfully so because God’s prophets were avenged, and the Lord will reign. But would there be such great rejoicing if it were Jerusalem that had been destroyed? Jerusalem, the city of David, the capital city of the nation which was the “apple of His eye”? The city over which Christ spoke so lovingly even though in the same sentence He recognized their sin in killing the prophets. But I recognize that this is just a first reaction, and certainly does not prove anything. So let us search the Scriptures for the truth in this matter.
GOD’S PROMISE TO NEVER AGAIN DESTROY JERUSALEM
Ezek. 5:9 reads, “And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like”. The context will show that this verse has to do with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. But please note, God said the He would “not do any more the like”. In other words, we read here God’s promise that He will never again destroy Jerusalem.
It is clear however, that mystery Babylon will indeed be destroyed by God. This verse alone should prove that Jerusalem is not mystery Babylon.


A DISCUSSION OF THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN BABYLON AND JERUSALEM
Many point to the similarities between the description of Babylon with Jerusalem and assume from that that Babylon represents Jerusalem. But I believe we must take into consideration the fact that Revelation is a book about the end times. One of the main characteristics of the end times is Satan’s attempt to counterfeit what is God’s . Let us consider some of those counterfeits.
THE COUNTERFEIT OF CHRIST HIMSELF
We read in II Thess. 2:4, “who (the antichrist) opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God; shewing himself that he is God“. We know that Christ is God and will sit in the Temple of God in His millennial reign. But we read here of the antichrist claiming to be Christ. Is this not a counterfeit of the greatest magnitude?
THE COUNTERFEIT OF CHRIST’S DEATH AND RESURRECTION
We read in Rev. 13:3, “And I saw one of his (the beast) heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed….”. Here we have the antichrist, represented as one of the heads of the beast, which was “wounded to death”. The note in the Companion Bible makes this meaning very clear. That note reads, “deadly wound = death stroke“. So this verse tells us that the antichrist died and was “healed”. Is this not a counterfeit of Christ’s death and resurrection?
THE COUNTERFEIT OF THE NAME ON THE FOREHEAD OF THE 144,000
In Rev. 7:3 we read of the sealing of the 144,000, “…hurt not the earth…….till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads“. Rev. 14:1 tells us that it is the Father’s name which is written on the foreheads of the 144,000. The note in the Companion Bible on this sealing is very interesting: “This sealing is visible and protects the elect (Matt. 24:31) of Israel during the tribulation, marking them off as worshippers of the true God”.
Let us consider the mark of the beast. We read in Rev. 13:16-17. “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
The mark of the beast is a counterfeit of God’s sealing of the 144,000.
THE COUNTERFEIT OF GOD’S MIRACLE OF FIRE FROM HEAVEN
Let us also consider the miracles described in Rev. 13:13-15, “and he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men”. This is an obvious counterfeit of the miracle recorded in I Kings 18:30-38 where after taunting the prophets of Baal, Elijah soaked the altar of God with water and in verse 38 we read, “Then the fire of the Lord fell and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench”. Again, we see Satan’s counterfeit, this time the counterfeit of the miracle of God in I Kings 18.
SATAN’S ARMY OF REV. NINE AND GOD’S ARMY OF JOEL TWO
We read in Rev. 9:3-11 of an army of locusts. Verses 7-8 describe these locusts, “And the shape of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads, were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. and they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle”.
And we also read in Joel 2:4-10 of an army of locusts. Verses 4-5 describe them, “the appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap,like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array”.
Note the similarities: both armies were locusts that looked like horses. Note both passages mention the noise of this army. But they are not the same army. The army of Rev. 9 is Satan’s army. Rev. 9:11 reads, “and they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon”. The note in the Companion Bible tells us that “Abaddon” means “destruction” and Apollyon” means “destroyer”. Given that the head of this army comes from the “bottomless pit”, we may conclude that Satan is the king of this army.
On the other hand, verse 11 of Joel 2 tells us that that army is the Lord’s army, “and the Lord shall utter His voice before His army….”.
My point is that even though there are similarities in these two armies of locusts, it is clear that Satan’s army, which will march in the tribulation is a counterfeit of God’s army which will march in the day of the Lord.
THE COUNTERFEIT OF JERUSALEM
We come now to a discussion of the similarities of the end time Jerusalem and the end time Babylon. Given that we are told quite specifically that the woman of Rev. 17 represents the city of Babylon and that the mystery surrounding the woman is not which city she represents but that she reigns over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18), I believe we may conclude that Babylon is yet another counterfeit of the things of God. In this case Babylon is the counterfeit of Jerusalem. (We will consider the significance of this counterfeit in a section below.)
But there is even more convincing evidence that the great city that will be destroyed in the day of the Lord is not Jerusalem, but Babylon. We read in Rev. 18:10, “….Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that great city! for in one hour is thy judgment come”. And in verse 17 of that same chapter we read, “For in one hour so great riches is come to nought…..”. And again in verse 19 we read, “Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate”.
Now let us compare this with some Old Testament prophecies concerning Babylon. Is. 47:1 reads, “…..come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon….”. And in verse 5 we read, “sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called the lady of kingdoms”. My point is that this passage concerns the punishment of Babylon of the Chaldees, not Jerusalem. Let us continue with verses 8-11 for the Scriptural account of Babylon’s punishment.
“Therefore hear now this…..that sayest in thine heart…… ‘I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children’. But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments. ………Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know”.
This prophecy has not been fulfilled. Ancient Babylon did fall into ruins, but certainly not suddenly, in one day. If we attribute the punishment of Babylon in “one hour” (Rev. 18:10, 17, and 19) to Jerusalem we have an unfulfilled prophecy.
Let us also consider Rev. 18:21, “And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, ‘Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all“. But Jerusalem will be the city in which Christ Himself will reign in the millennium. That is to say, it cannot be said of Jerusalem that She will be “found no more at all”.
And we read several times of the permanent destruction of Babylon. Jer. 50:33-34 contrasts Jerusalem with Babylon which tells us that this passage is in reference to the literal city of Babylon, not a representative of Jerusalem. “Thus saith the Lord of hosts: ‘The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together: ……Their Redeemer is strong…..He shall thoroughly plead their cause, that He may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon”.
Having established that this passage is about the literal city of Babylon let us continue with verses 35, 39-40 and 46. “The sword is upon the Chaldeans, saith the Lord, and upon the inhabitants of Babylon….”. “Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the Lord ‘so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein”.
Though present day Babylon is small, there are inhabitants of Babylon today telling us that this prophecy has not yet been fulfilled. And it cannot be a prophecy concerning Jerusalem because Jerusalem will be inhabited in the millennium.
 
Last edited:
Oct 12, 2012
1,563
929
113
68
The city was no longer Jerusalem when God destroyed it, it was now Mystery Babylon the Great Whore!
New Jerusalem had been established in Heaven.
Old Covenant Israel was God's Wife, now He no longer knew her.
They never really exited Babylon but brought Babylon back with them,
God had Mystery Babylon the Great Whore stoned to death, and she is no more.
Except for the faithful of Old Covenant Israel that received their Messiah,
in that last generation from 30 AD to 70 AD,
Jesus Christ; Who was their True Exodus out of Babylon and Egypt, back into the Garden!
 
Aug 22, 2013
18
0
0
Looks like God has lost Zion and His Holy City and gave up to... demons.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.


According to Revelation Great Whore should be filthy rich. But modern Jerusalem can't survive without financial help of USA!

Another problem is... what's making her a whore?

OT tells us about an massive idolatry - Ohola and Oholiba... do your research.

That's Vatican - city of filthy riches, owners of most money and gold on this planet, giving directions to CFR and other masonic organizations and Vatican mass is obvious idolatrous magic.

The Vatican rides all governments controlling them through finances and prime minister of Israel is in Vatican regularly every week or two to discuss the further action of... synagogue of satan.

How I could get out from Great Whore, here in Australia.

How Europeans could get away from her?

The whore is a religion. How Jerusalem is a religion? Great Whore is controlling all religions, Islam i Judaism included


What kind of power has Jerusalem if Vatican is controlling Mount Zion!

Jerusalem is not religion and has no voice in the world. It's supported by the world because they want to destroy Zionism.

Read the plan of three world wars.

WW3 - More About Albert Pike and Three World Wars

Another valid point. At some stage... suddenly new 10 kings will receive power with the Beast for 1 hour only.

What means 1 hour?

3.5 years. Why?

Because the Beast will receive the power in the same time for the same period of time - 3.5 years.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

So 10 kings and the Beast will receive the power while The Great Whore still will be in power over them for some time.

So taking the world power by 10 kings means incredible political event and replacement current leaders. 3 of them will be removed most likely by force, and even killed - as prophesied by Daniel. :D
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
You people are literal idiots for straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Look up Tyre.
Now look up Revelations 18.
Now see Ezekiel 27 and Daniel 7.
To say Jerusalem was the great city is so infantile and myopic it reseambles those who claim British Isrealism or that the American Indians were the lost tribes.
Listen, unless you are going to research the entire bible in the context it was written you will be fooled into such things.
Honestly..........
(Buy a friggin clue)
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
The city where our Lord was crucified?
He was not crucified in any physical city! (He was carried outside the gates)
Thus the writer plainly references Sodom-(lust of the flesh and lust of the eyes), and Egypt-(Kingdom which ruled the world and God's people were slaves in it) - {Pride of Life}.

As I said, please notice the difference between the physical and the spiritual.
For both are real indeed, but concerning prophecy only one is true.
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
Revelation 17:15-18

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Which great city is that?
1) Egypt - (Worldly Power)
2) Sodom - (Lusts: of flesh and eyes)
3) Jerusalem - (Spiritual Pride)

 
Last edited:
A

Ariel82

Guest
You people are literal idiots for straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Look up Tyre.
Now look up Revelations 18.
Now see Ezekiel 27 and Daniel 7.
To say Jerusalem was the great city is so infantile and myopic it reseambles those who claim British Isrealism or that the American Indians were the lost tribes.
Listen, unless you are going to research the entire bible in the context it was written you will be fooled into such things.
Honestly..........
(Buy a friggin clue)
Wow, Rick is this really necessary?
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
To put it in the most Lutheran of layman's terms:
The world (Egypt), the flesh (Sodom), and the devil (Spiritual Pride).
There.
Clear enough?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
To put it in the most Lutheran of layman's terms:
The world (Egypt), the flesh (Sodom), and the devil (Spiritual Pride).
There.
Clear enough?
Its a possible way of looking at it.
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
Jerusalem was the center of spiritual pride.
Jesus didn't return to it (John 7) until He had to go back to be crucified.
You make it necessary.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws."
“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh
Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."

*sign=Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,
meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act...And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.” H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons

Ezekiyl 20:12, "Moreover, I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies them."

“Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that...In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.

“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

Daniyl 8:12, "And a host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded."

Daniyl 7:19-21, "Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his claws of bronze; which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that were on his
head, and of the other horn which came up, before gwhom three fell--the horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout; more mighty and imposing, than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them."

Foxe's Book of Martyrs historically records the Romans killing 11 of the 12 apostles, including Kepha (Peter), and beheading Shaul (Paul). It is estimated to have killed 50million to 1 billion all toghther, now you know where they got all those skulls for the catacombs.

Revelation 13:5-6, "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to wmake war for forty-two moons; months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Yahweh, to blaspheme His Name, and His House, and those who dwell in heaven."

Pope says not to use the Name of Yaweh: Vatican Says No 'Yahweh' In Songs, Prayers At Catholic Masses - Music & Dance - Entertainment - Catholic Online

Revelation 17:4, "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication."

purple and scarlet color


a golden cup in her hand


Revelation 17:6, "And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Yahshua."



Revelation 17:9, "And here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits."


Revelation 13:18, "Here is wisdom: Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the asnumber of a man. And his number is 666."


SUNday worship


In my view it is pretty obvious who "Mystery Babylon" is. And no Yahshua did not Resurrect on SUNday, The first thing one must understand is what is a day Scriptually, not a day according to the Bablonian/Julian calendar we use in America and most the world. Then all the Scriptures from all 4 books have to be looked at togather, and even some of the original words. I have a video I did this on, spent hours and hours on it, please check it out.

Resurrection - YouTube

And here is a more complete study on Mystery Babylon

And upon her head a name was written - YouTube
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
It's not Rome or the papacy any more than it is Jerusalem.
- Just another figure.
- - Are you saying Roman Catholicism is akin to Islam?
- - - Or the Roman Empire akin to Egypt?
- - - -It was just a type. Just a foreshadow.
Honestly, do you think Roman Catholicism is the only religion?
Do you think Rome was the only empire?
How many religions and empires have there been since it's fall?
It IS a type. That's all, just a type.

Study and see ALL the types of prophecy that have been fulfilled.
Someday, someway.....some people will actually get that there is a spirit behind all the things of human invention.
- Was Hitler the antichrist? No, but he was a type....as was Antiochus Epiphanes and Stalin, and Mao Tse Tung, and myriads of others.
- - See all of the empires of the world? Which was first to enslave God's people?

Types. Types and shadows.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
Nope......................................
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH is simply the false one-world religion to be forced on mankind during the Tribulation. Plain and simple. The Scarlet Beast that she rides is the One World Government.

Harlotry or Prostitution has always been symbolic of idol worship or false religion in the Bible. This goes along with the 144,000 who are said to be "virgins" for they have never followed a false religion and always believed in the one and true God.

Guys, don't make this into something more complicated than it is. We are in a spiritual war which is only going to get worse. The war among the spirits and principalities is about to go epic on earth during the Tribulation. Paul teaches us this.

Eph 6:12:

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.