Do Christians who commit suicide go to Heaven?

[carpetmanswife]

Originally Posted by Merryheart

My stance on this matter comes from very personal experiences and want to be careful with my words. It is my strong belief though that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ paid for our sins both past and present. We could be driving down the road with great anger in our heart (same as murder) due to something someone did , and end up in an accident which ends your life. I have found myself angry like this before with the possibly of no time to repent should I die at that moment. Will I go to hell? No , I am His child! There is nothing I can do to loose His love or gift of eternal life (unless I reject Him and choose by free will to turn away). All that being said, I want to clarify that I believe everyone is a special individual with God and He will judge all Christians and their motives at the time of physical death. Throughout time I know there has been Christians who ended their own life do to mental illness or complete loss of hope , which are attacks from the enemy. I know I am not posting verses atm but I just wanted to speak from my heart and I do stand open to correction with the scriptures. I do lean more towards a harsher stand when it comes to people ending their own life with the hopes of discouraging them from doing so. That's where I was coming from on my first post. I'll say it again suicide is never the answer. Never.

I totally agree even with the ( ) part ..i didnt mean for it to come out like i condone the act no way ..just sometimes there are circumstances when a situation isnt cut and dry , thats all

Originally Posted by onwingsaseagles

When we get saved our past sins are forgiven not our future.
Romans 3:25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that were past; through the forbearance of God.

If we continue to sin after salvation then we are not truly saved or have backsliden.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God: but in works they do deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.

1st John 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not know the truth.

1st John 2:4 He that says, I know Him, and keeps not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

If we willfully commit murder and then die with repentance we will not go to Heaven

So with that logic, if someone lusts after a woman, and commits adultry (because lust is adultry from the words of Christ) and dies in a car accident before they can repent are they in hell? If the blood of Christ only covers the sins that are past we're all in serious trouble, because we would have lost our salvation the first day we were saved when we sinned, because Christ cannot be reoffered for sin (Hebrews 6:6) . As for your reference to Hebrews, the background is the defiant sin of Numbers 15:30-31 for which there was no propitiatory offering. If a person rejects the truth of Christ's death for sin, there is no other sacrifice for sin available and no other way to come to God. Only judgment remains (Hebrews 10:27). As for your references to I John, we should obey the commandments of God, but if we mess up, we have a proptiation in Jesus Christ (I John 2:2)

Originally Posted by onwingsaseagles

If we continue to sin after salvation then we are not truly saved or have backsliden.
...

If we willfully commit murder and then die with repentance we will not go to Heaven

So, dude, what happens if a guy is walking down the street, sees a girl, then lusts after her? But!, before he can repent, he gets hit by a semi-trailer.

Heaven or hell?

And, to cut to the chase, what Christian doesn't continue to sin after salvation? I know YOU do. Because I do, Paul did, and the Pope does. What you're not doing is differentiating between living a lifestyle steeped in sin, and committing a sinful act.

- Christopher

Originally Posted by Topher

So, dude, what happens if a guy is walking down the street, sees a girl, then lusts after her? But!, before he can repent, he gets hit by a semi-trailer.

Heaven or hell?

And, to cut to the chase, what Christian doesn't continue to sin after salvation? I know YOU do. Because I do, Paul did, and the Pope does. What you're not doing is differentiating between living a lifestyle steeped in sin, and committing a sinful act.

- Christopher

Your top statement was pretty much exactly what I said in a previous post.

I agree with Merry, but I would also say that we are assuming that when someone commits suicide they are dead instantly and that is often not the case. You don't know what happens to someone in their final moments. I have to assume that there are those on the "brink" of death, who realize their mistake and cry out to the Lord to save and forgive them. How many people leave suicide notes begging God and their loved ones to forgive them? Does God see, does He hear their cry? The bottom line is - we really don't know what happens to anyone Christian or non-Christian alike in those final moments. Only God knows their heart.

Wow that's a really interesting thought oneholyfire. I had never thought of that.

Yeah, usually hanging breaks the neck if it's done right, but sometimes people are slowly strangled... So it could leave time for repentance before death comes.

Originally Posted by next_step

Wait a minute! Forgiven is everything. Once for all times.

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:10

We cannot do anything that has something do to with our salvtion. The confessing is the condition for a holy life and it is for the relationship to the father. But repentence does not save you. Furthermore it says "confess" in 1. John. Satan mixes things up. It is so important to discern.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

1. John 2:1

The more interesting question is wether a real believer could do this. And have in mind: God judges saved persons with physical death because of certain reasons. When there witness is dead for example and they stopped to confess. A believer can fall into sin and he can do this:
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30

Hold on. I was referring to Judas Iscariot, whom the bible clearly labels as a betrayer and Jesus, in His own words, foretold Judas' fate in Hell. By no means was I commenting on the issue of eternal security HOWEVER since the subject was brought up, let's dig into this Judas thing a little further...

Now Judas was there to witness several of Christ's teaching and miracles. Judas was among the twelve that Jesus dispatched in two to go throughout the land and preach the gospel and lay hands on the sick and cast out devils. It could be argued that Judas was indeed a believer, at least at one time, yet Jesus foretells Judas' fate as one that you want no part of.

Anyone care to tackle that one?

He never was a believer. The scripture is clear on that. Satan entered him (Luke 22.3), and Satan can't enter into a believer of Christ.

Originally Posted by Baptistrw

So with that logic, if someone lusts after a woman, and commits adultry (because lust is adultry from the words of Christ) and dies in a car accident before they can repent are they in hell? If the blood of Christ only covers the sins that are past we're all in serious trouble, because we would have lost our salvation the first day we were saved when we sinned, because Christ cannot be reoffered for sin (Hebrews 6:6) . As for your reference to Hebrews, the background is the defiant sin of Numbers 15:30-31 for which there was no propitiatory offering. If a person rejects the truth of Christ's death for sin, there is no other sacrifice for sin available and no other way to come to God. Only judgment remains (Hebrews 10:27). As for your references to I John, we should obey the commandments of God, but if we mess up, we have a proptiation in Jesus Christ (I John 2:2)

You guys are blowing the issue of backsliding way out of proportion. Backsliding isn't so much an issue of one"losing" his salvation over a mere slip up as you all have alluded to. However, backsliding is an issue of one forfeiting his salvation by allowing his heart to turn away from God for whatever reason and blatantly refusing to repent despite the fact that this person knows his soul could be in jeopardy. I've seen this actually happen with my own eyes.

If you could lose eternal life, then it wasn't very eternal was it? If you don't do anything to earn your salvation, and the Christian life is about abiding in Christ, how can someones works cause them to lose it? It's illogical and not possible. I think what many people call "backslidden Christians" are people who were never saved to begin with, whom Jesus never knew.

Originally Posted by Baptistrw

He never was a believer. The scripture is clear on that. Satan entered him (Luke 22.3), and Satan can't enter into a believer of Christ.

To be honest with you, I never considered him to be a believer either. Jesus was obviously well aware of the betrayal. The reason I originally brought Judas up was because I felt it was important to mention that yes even Judas could have been forgiven if He had not committed suicide.

However, Judas' possible participation in the disciples activities does raise some interesting questions.

Originally Posted by Baptistrw

So David is in hell then isn't he? And Moses? They were murderers... The blood of Christ forgave all sin, past, present, and future. The sin you will commit tomorrow has already been forgiven.

I fi murder someone and then repent for it before my death God will forgive me. However if I murder someone and then refuse to repent , then die, I will have to answer for my sin. Therefore your examples do not equate since David, and Moses both repented before their deaths. No where in the Bible does it say the sin we commit tommorow is already forgiven even if we do not ever repent of it. That is a Baptist false doctrine (which of course you believe being baptist) but it is false an unbiblical.

Originally Posted by Baptistrw

If you could lose eternal life, then it wasn't very eternal was it? If you don't do anything to earn your salvation, and the Christian life is about abiding in Christ, how can someones works cause them to lose it? It's illogical and not possible. I think what many people call "backslidden Christians" are people who were never saved to begin with, whom Jesus never knew.

Considering this man was a long time pastor in the Baptist faith, maybe you can shed some light on the situation? All I know is that his wife left him for another man. He left the church, began to drink himself to death, and wanted nothing to do with God there after.

Originally Posted by Baptistrw

So with that logic, if someone lusts after a woman, and commits adultry (because lust is adultry from the words of Christ) and dies in a car accident before they can repent are they in hell? If the blood of Christ only covers the sins that are past we're all in serious trouble, because we would have lost our salvation the first day we were saved when we sinned, because Christ cannot be reoffered for sin (Hebrews 6:6) . As for your reference to Hebrews, the background is the defiant sin of Numbers 15:30-31 for which there was no propitiatory offering. If a person rejects the truth of Christ's death for sin, there is no other sacrifice for sin available and no other way to come to God. Only judgment remains (Hebrews 10:27). As for your references to I John, we should obey the commandments of God, but if we mess up, we have a proptiation in Jesus Christ (I John 2:2)

Anyone who continues in unrepentant sin after ''salvation'' will end up in hell. OSAS is a lie from satan.. If you finish 1st John 2:2 it goes on to say that Jesus is not just the propitiation for our sins but also the sins of the whole world, under you logic that means all people that ever live will go to heaven. Are you an universalist?

Originally Posted by NazariteNation

Considering this man was a long time pastor in the Baptist faith, maybe you can shed some light on the situation? All I know is that his wife left him for another man. He left the church, began to drink himself to death, and wanted nothing to do with God there after.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

Originally Posted by onwingsaseagles

Anyone who continues in unrepentant sin after ''salvation'' will end up in hell. OSAS is a lie from satan.. If you finish 1st John 2:2 it goes on to say that Jesus is not just the propitiation for our sins but also the sins of the whole world, under you logic that means all people that ever live will go to heaven. Are you an universalist?

One who continues in unrepentent sin after salvation was never saved to begin with and will thus end up in hill. As I said, if we could lose eternal life, which we can't, then it's not very eternal is it? And how can someone be unborn? Good luck explaining that! The sacrifice of Christ is sufficient for all man, but only efficient for those who believe.

Originally Posted by onwingsaseagles

I fi murder someone and then repent for it before my death God will forgive me. However if I murder someone and then refuse to repent , then die, I will have to answer for my sin. Therefore your examples do not equate since David, and Moses both repented before their deaths. No where in the Bible does it say the sin we commit tommorow is already forgiven even if we do not ever repent of it. That is a Baptist false doctrine (which of course you believe being baptist) but it is false an unbiblical.

Yes you will answer for your sin, we all will. Forgiveness isn't a license to sin. It is a promise that we can be restored after we miss the mark. As for your attacking statements on Baptistic doctrine, I'll be a bigger person and just ignore it, I'm not gonna waste my time getting into a petty argument. Be more mature; debate the topic, don't attack a person.

Originally Posted by onwingsaseagles

I fi murder someone and then repent for it before my death God will forgive me. However if I murder someone and then refuse to repent , then die, I will have to answer for my sin. Therefore your examples do not equate since David, and Moses both repented before their deaths. No where in the Bible does it say the sin we commit tommorow is already forgiven even if we do not ever repent of it. That is a Baptist false doctrine (which of course you believe being baptist) but it is false an unbiblical.

I tend to agree with this assessment however I approach it from another angle. Please keep in mind that I don't believe one can involuntarily lose one's salvation but that it can be willingly forfeited.

My problem with the doctrine isn't so much the package, it's the presentation. I know far too many people who clearly have no idea what it means to truly be saved, claim that they are saved even though they are currently living in fornication, committing adultery, abusing drugs, etc. However, despite theirobvious misgivings, they are absolutely convinced that they are saved because at some point in time in their life they repeated the sinners prayer and were baptized in water.

The sad part is when I have approached friends and coworkers who I believe are sincere about their salvation who share your point of view, I ask them about these folks who are obviously deceived and I get the some cold and uncompassionate response: "They're not saved." However when you ask them if they're concerned about these people I get the ussual "Why? You can't tell them nothing."

Which is true, you can't tell them anything because they have already put their trust in a doctrine which clearly has bad fruit.

Originally Posted by Baptistrw

Yes you will answer for your sin, we all will. Forgiveness isn't a license to sin. It is a promise that we can be restored after we miss the mark. As for your attacking statements on Baptistic doctrine, I'll be a bigger person and just ignore it, I'm not gonna waste my time getting into a petty argument. Be more mature; debate the topic, don't attack a person.

I hope and pray that you don't not take my enquirees as being a personal attack. That not my intention at all. Personally I would love to sit down and discuss (not debate) this issue with someone face to face in a brotherly manner in oder to get a better understanding of each other's point of view.

Although I am a continuationist, I live in North Carolina where the Baptist faith is prevalent and would like to familiarize with the Baptist belief system as well as the Methodist belief system in the hopes that we can work together to win souls without stepping all over eachothers toes because of doctrinal differences.