Do Christians who commit suicide go to Heaven?

[cowgirljen]

Sampson didn't kill himself for his own advantage or even that he wanted to die he pushed over the piller to destroy the wicked people around him. Big difference it's just like a missle comming towards an innocent population and a fighter pilot giving his own life to intercept the missle with his jet the Bible clearly states that a man laying his life down for his brother is good. I can't remember the verse though but it was on the movie that the columbine girls dad made in rememberance of her...

Originally Posted by Piano_hero

"You don't understand my words, piano, because of your spiritual blindness"
"declaring that they who acted upon it and expressing it in words "Raca" or "fool" would be in danger of judgment" ok, so you just called me a fool , but in a christian way. Christians always do that . they call me idiot, blind etc, but then when i give them that verse they say "i didnt technically call you "fool" " . but its not the letter its the spirit of the law rememeber ? "consented to their death" . well peopel taht get "Assisted suicide" also consent to their death . there is no difference , except you say that they did it in teh will of God, so you agree, suicide is allowed in certain situations. Also, Samson didnt die in a "assist" type of way. he directly kileed himself by causing the building to fall on himself. what you call "spiritual understanding" is simply "the BIble never says what i say literally"

Piano, you continue to establish my case. I won't argue, I indeed called you foolish and spiritually blind. Reread Matthew 5:21-22:
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, "Raca!" shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, "You fool!" shall be in danger of hell fire.

Now look at how Jesus Himself called those who were spiritually blind fools. Jesus declared not once but twice in one breath that His unbelieving enemies were "fools and blind":
(Matthew 23:17, 19) Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold?

And yet again, Jesus declares His unbelieving enemies "foolish ones":
(Luke 11:39-40) Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness. Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also?

In the Old Testament, the Psalmist declared that atheists are "fools" (Psalm 14:1). In the New Testament, the apostle Paul called the spiritually immature Galatians "foolish":
(Galatians 3:1) O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth...?

And finally, the apostle James shared in using the word foolish:
(James 2:20) Do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

So why is it that Jesus said calling one a fool would put them in the danger of hell fire, and yet Christ Himself, the psalmist, and the apostles, all inspired by the Holy Spirit, called people fools? According to you, Jesus and the apostles are just as much hypocrites as me. But you are in error, piano, because you have misunderstood the verse and trampled upon the context. You see, take a close look at Matthew 5:21-22. Jesus concern and focus is not on calling people fools, in general, but on having unrighteous anger, and expressing that through hateful words. Christ's example (one calling their brother a fool out of unreasonable anger) was only mentioning one resorting to hateful and condemning speech out of anger without a cause. But the case here, as it was with Christ and the apostles, is not the same at all. I have not called you spiritually blind out of anger, but because I am simply telling the truth. I feel no hatred for you, I am concerned for you, because you keep trampling upon the word of God and teaching false things. The Bible says the judgment is stricter for those who teach.

The word "consent" means "allow" or "permit." Jesus permitted His life to be taken. Samson permitted his own death in his effort to destroy the enemies of God. Suicides today permit their death as well. The difference is the motive to their permission. Samson's situation is not suicide as we know it today. Samson performed an act of war to destroy God's enemies, because their existence was detrimental to Israel. He knew full well that his actions would take his own life, but he laid his life down for his nation. People today don't kill themselves in order to save their family or friends, they kill themselves because they can't handle the pains of life. This was not true with Samson's case.

No, you won't go to heaven if you commit suicide.

Your friends and family missing you, though, is probably a more relevant consequence of committing suicide. So don't do it.

[Piano_hero]

Originally Posted by dane_g87

Jesus permitted His life to be taken. Samson permitted his own death in his effort to destroy the enemies of God. Suicides today permit their death as well. The difference is the motive to their permission.

yes, thats the only difference. the motive., but the act is still the same. its still suicide just with a different motive. so we agree . Samson committed more of a text book suicide than those that get assisted suicided . Suicide has nothign to di with motive in its definition. The definition makes no mention of "not in Gods will" or "Gods will" making a differnece in wheter its suicide or not . You are right, teh prohibityion is in calling someone a fool idly is in danger of hell fire. you fit this scenerio since A.i am right first of all, and B. even if i werent that wouldnt be sufficiant to warrant the "fool" as any spiritual person knows and has better self control . and i agree with james that fools believe that we are saved by faith only

[imoss]

Baruch, Thank you for your awesome testimony... another psalm that i think applies is psalm 37. Also read psalm 91 daily this is an amazing one that has delivered me through trials. I got goosebumps reading your post. Thank you & God Bless you as you journey through this temporary testing station (as my fatherinlaw likes to call it)

I think they would. Suicide is not the unpardonable sin, and it's not too big to be covered by the veil of the blood of Christ.

Though I think it is far less likely for a Christian to commit suicide than a non Christian, I would argue that it is possible. Being a Christian does not make us immune to sin, even though we are new creations.

~Meghan
P.S. I'm new here... is there a way to follow a thread you have posted in? Thanks

Originally Posted by Piano_hero

yes, thats the only difference. the motive., but the act is still the same. its still suicide just with a different motive. so we agree . Samson committed more of a text book suicide than those that get assisted suicided . Suicide has nothign to di with motive in its definition. The definition makes no mention of "not in Gods will" or "Gods will" making a differnece in wheter its suicide or not . You are right, teh prohibityion is in calling someone a fool idly is in danger of hell fire. you fit this scenerio since A.i am right first of all, and B. even if i werent that wouldnt be sufficiant to warrant the "fool" as any spiritual person knows and has better self control . and i agree with james that fools believe that we are saved by faith only

- There is more than just one difference. The motive, condition, spiritual state, circumstances, nature, and more are all different and contradictory. The act is not the same, and we do not agree.

- Samson did not commit a "textbook suicide," and those that receive assisted suicide are committing suicide just the same as someone who personally did it. God does not look at the physical action so much that He ignores the motive in the heart, which is identical in both the person who physically kills themself, and the one who consents to assisted suicide. God judges not only physical actions, but moreso what's in the heart.

- Everything we do is related to the motive and spirit behind the actions or words, because we are spiritual beings, and the law of God set forth is spiritual as well, and it's purpose is to convict us of not only our actions and words but also our hearts and minds, motives, thoughts, and spirituality.

- The prohibition Jesus exclusively mentioned in Matthew 5:21-22 was having unrighteous anger and acting upon it with insulting or condemning speech. I do not fit this scenario since I have not had or expressed unrighteous anger.

- You are not right but only in your own eyes. The fact that I have called you spiritually blind, and that the Bible has also declared that those who believe they are right in their own eyes are spiritually blind, carries some significance. Anybody who tramples upon the word of God, anybody who doesn't believe in the truth of God, anybody who is spiritually immature, and anybody who lacks spiritual understanding and knowledge, who tries to go on and teach others based on this, warrants the "fool" by evidence and example of Scripture.

- James was not teaching that those who believe in salvation by faith only are fools. Doing so would contradict the teachings of Jesus and Paul, who taught that salvation is not by works, or by faith, but by the grace of God. We are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8) which we receive through faith and is manifested by works. We are not saved by works. James simply explained that true faith reveals itself with good works, so that the person who does not have works, likewise has no faith, or dead faith.

The Suicide: The act of killing oneself intentionally

There are two that involved in the action: the perpetrator and the victim
The perpetrator is the one who carried out the action, and
The victim is the one who was killed by the perpetrator
This is nothing to do with math, but conduct, and yes, it is a crime to kill yourself!
There are many causes of suicide, mostly related to depression;
“Talk to the Lord in prayer, He’s reaching out to you!”
Translation:
Those who are responsible for suicide "should be" brought to justice!

The Bible: Thou Shalt Not Kill
Translation:
Those who are responsible for suicide "would be" brought to justice!


With love,
~Ren

Scripture says that nothing can seperate us from the love of God (Roman 8) I believe that to mean that nothing, even suicide can seperate us from the love of God. having said that I believe further that persons who are thinking or considering suicide should speak to a counselor, pastor or other professional who is trained in suicide prevention.

[Sinnner]

That just means that God loves everyone of us, saved and unsaved.

[BLC]

Originally Posted by kam2

Scripture says that nothing can seperate us from the love of God (Roman 8) I believe that to mean that nothing, even suicide can seperate us from the love of God. having said that I believe further that persons who are thinking or considering suicide should speak to a counselor, pastor or other professional who is trained in suicide prevention.

We would be amiss to ignore the premise for what you have quoted which is located in the previous verses of that chapter.

Rom 8:24-28 'For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose'.

Surely, these things must mean something to you!

[Piano_hero]

Originally Posted by dane_g87

- There is more than just one difference. The motive, condition, spiritual state, circumstances, nature, and more are all different and contradictory. The act is not the same, and we do not agree.

"The motive, condition, spiritual state, circumstances, nature," are all the same thing . they all come down to circumstance . so you agreed a long time ago without knowing . you admit that samson taking his own life was not going to condemn him , and thats the definition of suicide . suicide doesnt take into consideration "motive, condition, spiritual state, nature" in its definition . so you are wrong yet again. ill say it clearly "the circumstance, nature, condition, situation , spiritual state , motive , have nothing to do with whether it is suicide or not "

"Suicide (Latin suicidium, from sui caedere, to kill oneself) is the intentional taking of one's own life"

it doesnt say "suicide is when one takes ones life but for a bad reason and in a bad spiritual state" so you fail hard

Piano, took you a while, but still, no. We do not agree. I do not agree with you, and I will never agree with you and your current position. So you can look up words in a dictionary and see similar definitions. So you can look at the definition of a word in Latin. That's great, but the study of words in an English dictionary will win you no argument over Scriptural truth.

All of those things aforementioned have much to do with the events of Jesus, Samson, even Stephen (righteous), and then King Saul, Judas, and suicidal teens/adults (wicked) to this day. Jesus, Samson, Stephen, and others, differ in these areas from King Saul, Judas, and suicidal people today. We will look at each of these areas so that your confusion can subside.

Motive - The motive for consenting to death for the righteous and wicked is different. Jesus, Samson, and Stephen consented to their deaths out of the will of God. Jesus laid His life down for His sheep. Samson laid his life down for God and his nation Israel. Stephen laid his life down for the gospel and the truth. Notice how none of these examples took objects, substances, etc, to physically inflict injury/death upon themselves. Now for the unrighteous the motive is different. Saul took his own life by stabbing himself with his sword. Judas took his own life by hanging himself. Suicidal people today take their own lives by using objects, substances, etc, to physically inflict injury/death upon themselves, from guns, to ropes, to drugs, to poisons, etc.

Condition - The condition with Jesus, Samson, and Stephen, as you read above and below, included their earnest faith in God to keep them. Jesus was faithful unto death, as was Stephen, and Samson (Hebrews 11:13-39). In having faith in God, Jesus, Samson, and Stephen rested in the promise and hope of God. As for the condition of King Saul - he was greatly distressed, troubled, and spiritually destroyed. He had lost standing with God and was rejected, because he rejected God. Judas never was truly a faithful disciple of Christ, and his final betrayal was evidence for that. He did not have faith in God or Christ, nor did he look forward to the hope and promise of the gospel. After committing his crime, he was tormented by his guilt - rejecting the fact that he could confess and cast his burdens on Christ - ultimately which drove him to his suicide. Today's suicidal people are strikingly similar in their condition as were these biblical examples.

Spiritual State - The spiritual state of Jesus, Samson, and Stephen was in communion with God. Jesus: self-explanatory. Stephen, full of faith and of the Holy Spirit (Acts 6:5). Samson was acting in faith, praying to God, submitting to, and bidding His will. In Hebrews 11:13-39 we get an excellent testimony of Samson as a man of faith. Verse 13 says the all the people listed "all died in faith," evidence that Samson was full of faith in God at the time of his death. Then the list of deeds done by those of faith record they "subdued kingdoms," "worked righteousness," "obtained promises," out of weakness were made strong," "became valiant in battle," and "turned to flight the armies of the aliens." All of these describe Samson and his efforts to a tick. Finally, verse 39 concludes that these people "obtained a good testimony through faith." According to you, this is impossible! Samson - obtained a good testimony through faith? But he committed suicide right? Wrong, that is your misunderstanding and failure.

Now the spiritual state for King Saul, Judas, and suicidal people today isn't so bright, by far. God had departed from King Saul and became his enemy (1 Samuel 28:16). Judas is self explanatory...the Bible says "Woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born," (Matthew 26:24). And today, the spiritual state for suicidal people is similar to these. They have betrayed God, forsaken His hope, refuse to submit to His will, reject the Son as their burden-bearer; and as a result, they bear their own burdens, they live by their own will, they have no hope, and God has departed from them for their continuous rebellion.

Circumstances - The circumstances for Jesus included the fact that it was His purpose to lay His life down from the beginning. God had willed for Him to complete this task. The religious leaders were filled with hatred, plotted to kill Him, and sent to arrest Him in order to accomplish that. They captured Him, tried Him, declared Him guilty when He was innocent, and condemned Him to the cross. Jesus willfully consented to this and let it happen. Now for Stephen, the circumstances are similar: Stephen spoke to the Jews about their ethnic history (Abraham, Moses, etc). Concluding the sermon with the gospel of Jesus Christ, the crowds became engraged and filled with hatred, plotting (rather quickly) to kill him, which they did. Stephen consented to his death, knowing full well by continuing to preach the truth, instead of pleasing their ears, would engrage them so and cost him his life. On the eve of his death, instead of fleeing, Stephen consented and prayed to Jesus from Heaven. The crowd stoned him to death, and he died. Samson - again similar. His enemies were unbelieving Philistines, much like the Pharisees and unbelieving Jews. Samson was a leader of the nation of Israel, and destroyed the Philistines previously. They captured him however and were now using his captivity to honor their false god, Dagon. To avenge their abominable sin of desecrating a leader of God's people, chosen and sanctified by God, (compare with 2 Samuel 1:14-16), as well as sacrificing to their false gods, and to protect his nation from imminent Philistine invasion, Samson carried out an act of war to destroy the Philistines' temple of idols and slay thousands of God's enemies in the process. Fully consenting to the fact that this act would take his own life, Samson submitted to the will of God and prayed in his remaining moments (Judges 16:28-30).

The circumstances with King Saul was that he was currently living in active rebellion against God. Instead of inquiring from God, he sought out the counsel of a witch. He rebelled against God throughout his reign, taking plunder of cities when the Lord commanded him to destroy everything. Saul even killed God's holy priests in his struggle to murder David. His rebellion came to an end when he took his own life in the battlefield, by first requesting it from his armorbearer (who refused), and then positioning his sword so that it pierced him as he fell on it (1 Samuel 31:4-6). Later in Scripture we find that it was an act of judgment of God, through which God Himself killed Saul by determining the act (1 Chronicles 10:14). The circumstances of Judas include the famous act of betraying Christ to the Pharisees. After seeing the evil he had done, he attempted to return the money he received for the deed. Judas attempted - like King Saul - to repent in a worldly manner, not in the name of God, but in the name of the punishment and guilt he felt. Cain was upset not because when he murdered Abel, it was an abominable sin before God, but simply because "his punishment was greater than he could bear." So too was the case with Saul and Judas. These died faithless, unbelieving, and abominable souls. These circumstances describe in different angles those of today's suicidal people. They live continuously rebellious lifestyles, they seek other counsel besides God's (their own), they believe they know how to end their problems (by their own hand) and they reject the hope and salvation of Christ.

Nature - The nature concerning Jesus' life and consent to death can be summed up in the phrase - relied only upon God. Jesus didn't even rely on His own divinity; He relied on the Father. Same with Stephen - when preaching the gospel to a crowd with murderous intentions, Stephen remained in full reliance upon God to deliver Him regardless of what would happen. Samson relied fully on God as well, as you can see with his prayers, and his description in Hebrews 11. The nature of King Saul, Judas, and suicides today is directly opposite. They don't rely on God; they relied (and do rely) on their own hands and efforts to end their problems.

More - Concerning Samson: Samson's final valiant act mightily demonstrated that the Philistine celebration of their god Dagon's victory over God, His people, and His champion Samson, was futile. It served to testify of the greatness and omnipotence, not of Dagon, but of the true and everlasting God Himself. Consider the Nazirite vow of Samson's. If the vow was violated and the uncut hair became defiled, the hair would have to be cut off in order for the period of consecration to start over. The Nazirite would then have to dedicate himself to God again, and must bring to the Lord a year old male lamb as a guilt offering (Numbers 6:9-12). Samson's hair became defiled by his acts and was cut off by Delilah, but when it grew back, he received a new time of consecration as a Nazirite. As we can read, he had no lamb to offer God as a guilt offering, but he could offer up his life - and that is exactly what he did.

Sorry I forgot to mention the motives for the unrighteous, in the 3rd paragraph: Saul, Judas, and suicidal people today do not kill themselves in order to save their family or friends, or anybody for that matter. The motive behind the suicides of Saul and Judas, and other wicked people mentioned in the Bible, was simply to end their pain and suffering; they felt enormous amounts of shame, guilt, frustration, hatred, and other negative emotions.

Originally Posted by 1still_waters

I'm just winging it here.

There is a commandment that says thou shall not murder. I'd think killing yourself would pretty much violate that commandment and would be indicative of a rebellious heart not submitted to God.

But there is another side to the coin we should look at here. Some people suffer from extreme mental illness. Almost to the point they can't be held accountable for their actions. They've lost grasp with reality and just can't function. I'd view this as an extreme situation.

If someone has reached this extreme mental state where they've just lost grasp on reality and can't be held accountable, and they go and kill themselves, I personally would like to think God takes that in to consideration.

That's more of a reasoned wish on my part, than anything founded in scripture, so take that in to consideration.

Murder is same thing as stealing, adultery, ect. They all can be forgiven no matter what

Please read previous posts before posting a new response. What you have just said has already been covered and explained.

[Piano_hero]

Originally Posted by Knightjester

The Suicide: The act of killing oneself intentionally

There are two that involved in the action: the perpetrator and the victim
The perpetrator is the one who carried out the action, and
The victim is the one who was killed by the perpetrator
This is nothing to do with math, but conduct, and yes, it is a crime to kill yourself!
There are many causes of suicide, mostly related to depression;
“Talk to the Lord in prayer, He’s reaching out to you!”
Translation:
Those who are responsible for suicide "should be" brought to justice!

The Bible: Thou Shalt Not Kill
Translation:
Those who are responsible for suicide "would be" brought to justice!


With love,
~Ren

since it a life for a life, the justice is already done . If i kill myslef, i must die for murder, and i died if i killed my self . can you steal from yourself ?

[Piano_hero]

Originally Posted by cowgirljen

Sampson didn't kill himself for his own advantage or even that he wanted to die he pushed over the piller to destroy the wicked people around him. .

so you admit he killed himself. thank you . thats what ive been trying to say , and killing yourself is suicide. so he committed suicide adn was blameless for it becasue it was for a good reason according to you

Originally Posted by dane_g87

Please read previous posts before posting a new response. What you have just said has already been covered and explained.

Are you talking to me?

[happyface]

I have an illness (schizophrenia) and I wouldnt kill myself. I beleive in God to much and value my life. I too have things happening to me, like bad neighbours etc, terrible times Ive had but I come on here and ask god instead. I do beleive that god is with us all the time. and yes if our hearts are genuine I do also beleive that we go to heaven. Love Mandy xxx