Disproving Limited Atonement in Three Passages

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chestertonrules

Banned
#1
Aug 28, 2013
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#1
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.


1 Tim 2:3,4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.



 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#2
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#2
Don't forget this one:

Consequently therefore, as through one trespass came condemnation to all people, so also through one righteous work came justification of life to all people. Romans 5:18
​
 
M

Mammachickadee

Guest
#3
#3
chestertonrules said:
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.


1 Tim 2:3,4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior,who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Click to expand...
Context. Context Context. All written to affirm that the Jews were not the only ones Christ came to save.
 
C

chestertonrules

Banned
#4
Aug 28, 2013
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#4
Mammachickadee said:
Context. Context Context. All written to affirm that the Jews were not the only ones Christ came to save.
Click to expand...

Says who? Not the bible. You must be a Calvinist. For Calvinist it doesn't really matter what the bible says, it matter what Calvin SAYS it says.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#5
Jan 19, 2013
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#5
chestertonrules said:
Says who? Not the bible. You must be a Calvinist. For Calvinist it doesn't really matter what the bible says, it matter what Calvin SAYS it says.
Click to expand...
In the context of the Judaism of Jesus' and the apostles' day, only the Jews were offered salvation.

They would have understood it to mean that the offer was now made to the whole world, not just to Israel.
 
C

chestertonrules

Banned
#6
Aug 28, 2013
183
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#6
Elin said:
In the context of the Judaism of Jesus' and the apostles' day, only the Jews were offered salvation.

They would have understood it to mean that the offer was now made to the whole world, not just to Israel.
Click to expand...
The whole world includes all people, including non believers, as the bible says.

Do you even read the words of the bible?

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.


1 Tim 2:3,4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior,who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#7
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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#7
chestertonrules said:
The whole world includes all people,
Click to expand...
It does based on our history and experience.

Based on the history and experience of the Jews in Jesus' day, it could mean
simply the territory of the whole world, as distinct from the territory of Israel only.
 
C

chestertonrules

Banned
#8
Aug 28, 2013
183
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#8
Elin said:
It does based on our history and experience.

Based on the history and experience of the Jews in Jesus' day, it could mean
simply the territory of the whole world, as distinct from the territory of Israel only.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is what it meant. It also included all people.

Not for OUR sins only, but for those of the WHOLE WORLD.

The savior of ALL people.(not all places, not that it is any different)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
#9
Elin said:
In the context of the Judaism of Jesus' and the apostles' day, only the Jews were offered salvation.

They would have understood it to mean that the offer was now made to the whole world, not just to Israel.
Click to expand...
says who? It was never offered to just the jews..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10
#10
Mammachickadee said:
Context. Context Context. All written to affirm that the Jews were not the only ones Christ came to save.
Click to expand...
may possibly be true of johns passage, but no way in timothys passage. Timothy was an understudy of paul who was an apostle to the gentiles. so this could not possibly be true, because gentiles never would have thought it was only to Israel.
 
S

SpiritofFire

Banned
#11
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
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0
#11
Elin said:
In the context of the Judaism of Jesus' and the apostles' day, only the Jews were offered salvation.

They would have understood it to mean that the offer was now made to the whole world, not just to Israel.
Click to expand...
If this is written for someone else that lived thousands of years ago, then why read the bible? It's not for us.
 
R

reject-tech

Guest
#12
#12
There are many more than three verses.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be: and let them know that God ruleth in Jacob unto the ends of the earth. Selah.
And at evening let them return; and let them make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city.
Let them wander up and down for meat, and grudge if they be not satisfied."

"And all men shall fear, and shall declare the work of God; for they shall wisely consider of His doing."

"Praise waiteth for thee, O God, in Sion: and unto thee shall the vow be performed.
O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come."

"He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations."

"His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed."

Verses like these are often tear jerkers for me, because I crave to see it.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#13
#13
This fish aint going for the bait.

 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#14
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
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#14
chestertonrules said:
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.


1 Tim 2:3,4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Click to expand...
None of them passages says limited atonement is not true.
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#15
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
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#15
chestertonrules said:
Yes, that is what it meant. It also included all people.

Not for OUR sins only, but for those of the WHOLE WORLD.

The savior of ALL people.(not all places, not that it is any different)
Click to expand...

God is the Saviour of all People who are saved Lol..
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#16
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
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#16
Mammachickadee said:
Context. Context Context. All written to affirm that the Jews were not the only ones Christ came to save.
Click to expand...
Correct. Because Salvation is promised to only one group of people Israel Isa 45:17


17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

What Paul shows is that, that Israel that is promised to be saved in the Lord, is not only comprised of jews, but of gentiles also !
 
Hizikyah

Hizikyah

Senior Member
#17
Aug 25, 2013
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#17
Ezekiyl 18:23, "Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? says Father Yahweh: No, but rather that he would
turn back from his wicked ways, and live."

Yahweh's hand is out to ALL mankind, however not all will join the, selves to Yahweh.
 
Hizikyah

Hizikyah

Senior Member
#18
Aug 25, 2013
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#18
Gentiles were alloed in the "OT" also:

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing dany evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which eplease Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Not "jewish proselites" but as a native of the land.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#19
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
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#19
I'll concede unlimited atonement if those holding that Christ died for all would likewise concede that as believers in Christ we were ''chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.''
Howza bout it? Eph 1:4
 
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RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#20
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#20
The only reason the Jews aren't gentile like we are is that God took a gentile apart, Abraham, to start a new race just for special training so they would know God. Gentiles were going the same way they were going when people became so wicked and impossible that there was no hope for them to live with God in eternity as God had planned so God made the flood to start over with us again. We all need to just be thankful for this group of people.

Part of the way God trained them was to have them relate everything they did in their every day life, and every holiday they had to worship of Him. What they ate, how their clothes were, everything. When God sent Peter and Paul out to tell us gentiles about Christ, those everyday practices became a barrier to us learning about God rather than the help the Jews had made of them.

God made the Jews blind (see about it in Romans) to Christ as the Messiah, so we would accept the gospel better. People were still relating true worship with the everyday practices that led to true worship. God asks us to respect the Jews because he used them for our sakes. God says they will always be special to Him and He will take special care of them, but God loves us all.

As an example of how we gentiles see these everyday sort of lead in to worship practices, I have posted that I thought it would be beneficial to us to bring back some of them so we have God as the most important part of our lives in front of us daily. In lots of people's minds, to this day, doing anything that reminds them of Jews is absolutely out of any consideration whatsoever. If this is true, 2,000 years after the gospel was first brought to us, think how true it was in the beginning. God moved to remove this barrier for us, but don't take it out on the Jews!
 
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