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Thread: I SEE soo much POWER from tongues, prophesying in bible. How EVER did they CEASE

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    Senior Member GreenNnice's Avatar
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    Default I SEE soo much POWER from tongues, prophesying in bible. How EVER did they CEASE

    This is my take, and, before we start, can't we speak all thoughts in this thread in "Love," afterall, IT never fails
    Everything else does FAIL, but, nope, not never EVER, Love

    I was reading through 1 Corinthians chapter 13 and I soo try to understand the cessatioinist viewpoint ,why, why, why, they THINK the way they do regarding tongues and prophesy having ceased after the Scripture was complete, that is, after the Old Testament had the New TEstament to go with it, for ALL to be able to read the bible instead of just having got words from folks in New Testament time like Paul because it was not compiled yet.

    And.....wait for it, wait for it, oh, WAIT! Sorry, I have heard Centurylink commercials one too many times, I guess But, yeah, I keep waiting for God to dial in an adequate interpretation of Scripture for me to rescind my belief on gifts of the Spirit being gifts we should desire.

    But He never has, and, so, the Lord leads me in this way. I just don't see any Truth in saying that tongues and prophesy NEEDED to be gone after the bible was written , per 1 Cor. 13. It's just not something that is comfortably in there, but, God working through us to accomplish His Spirit's work to SAVE others, unbelievers brought to Him, believers edified in church ?

    You bet !!!

    I want to know your thoughts and I am going to post and highlight words that, I feel, show me that just because the bible was completed, in 'completeness,' as cessationists hang their doctrine on, it did NOT mean that tongues, prophecy, healing things de-existed.

    Au Contraire !

    We NO longer prophesied in part, we could fully see the Scriptures of the NT to realize that Paul exhorted those who prophesied, because they EDIFIED the church.

    And, tongues? Yeah, they did what Jesus said was all OUR Great Commission: Go into the world in His name, the Father's, the Spirit's, and, proclaim the good news 1 Corinthians 14 states that tongues are for 'unbelievers,' so, why would they cease, and, prophesying, IF an unbeliever walks in when a church is PROPHESYING, then, that unbeliever will TURN TO GOD, he/she/they WILL "fall down and worship God, saying, 'God is really among you.'" That's what they will say !

    That's what we NEED to understand, one person on here says repeatedly, 'Why do I need to listen to anyone give prophecy, there is nothing from anyone that I need to know further. It's ALL in the bible, in Scripture.'

    Now, I loosely quote, I'm not verbatim quoting, but the GIST is THAT .

    Now, what can possibly be my answer to that???

    I already said it God wants us to go into all the world and preach in the name of the Father, the Son, and, the Holy Spirit. That's it. That's why ! ! ! !

    Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13 that the people of 1 AD were prophesying in part because they knew 'in part,' now why was it that Paul said that?? Because Paul knew that when Scripture was written we WOULD see the WHOLE of the bible, reading it altogether, and, we WOULD be able to prophesy in FULL ! WE could see the Scripture in its entirety

    Again, it keeps coming back to this, based on Paul's WORDS in 1 Corinthians 14, we NEED to eagerly desire the gifts of the Spirit, 1 Cor. 14:1 says. And, after a lengthy exhortation by Paul explaining WHY Paul says that we should desire to speak in tongues and prophesy.

    Now, FULL DISCLOSURE: I have NEVER spoken in tongues (that I know of) although I've prayed over people and although no confirmation tangibly seen of person healed prayed for I HAVE FAITH they were HEALED

    OK, what do you think? Use Scripture to support why you think that tongues, healings, prophesy de-existed after the bible was written. Or, use Scripture to explain why after Christ left and after Paul left, the gifts of the Spirit were even more important than ever to get out and use and help others believe who would NOT just be able to be saved by reading the bible. Now, I know , cessatiionists say, 'gReen, they are saved, by His timing, Holy Spirit's conviction.'

    Yes, they are saved in that way, but, why IF Paul said that gifts were so eagerly there for us to desire from God, would you want to think they are not be be desired after the canon (Scripture) was in full view ?

    Why, why, why, would THAT make a difference ? It makes no sense to me to say that. Sorry, it don't

    1 Corinthians 12:
    Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. 4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
    7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
    1 Corinthians 13:
    [QUOTE]Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    [/QUOTE]
    1 Corinthians 14:
    Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tonguea does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,b but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,c unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
    Last edited by GreenNnice; September 15th, 2013 at 08:52 AM.
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    Default Re: I SEE soo much POWER from tongues, prophesying in bible. How EVER did they CEASE

    There is no Scripture necessary to support the historical truth. The gifts ceased by order of the leaders of the church, who found they got in the way. In most every century, a person or two may be found, exercising either gift, and condemned by the church. The catholics still have a law on the books, over 1000 years old, that tongues are to be assumed demonic until proven otherwise. Why have such a law if they had ceased?

    An argument can be made from I Cor. 12, that if the gifts ceased, so did the gift of apostles and prophets (since they are used together thoughout that chapter). But the fivefold ministry Scripture, Eph. 4:11-13 makes it clear that all 5 ministries will cease only when a certain condition is achieved (fullness of the Body...). You therefore cannot have pastors unless you also have prophets and apostles, as they are to cease at the same time. But curiously, the word "church" occurs nowhere in that chapter. That's what happened; the church threw them out, but the gifts continued among the people of God.
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    Default Re: I SEE soo much POWER from tongues, prophesying in bible. How EVER did they CEASE

    Whether the gifts ceased or not has little to do with 'power' Look at the Corinthian Church full of gifts but very little godliness...rather selfishness, sectarian fighting, little care about incest amongst them, drunkeness during the Lord's Supper, boasting,, ascribing to false doctrine etc., etc.
    All along they should have been seeking the Giver rather than the gifts who gives as He wills.

    Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
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    Senior Member GreenNnice's Avatar
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    Default Re: I SEE soo much POWER from tongues, prophesying in bible. How EVER did they CEASE

    Quote Originally Posted by kenisyes View Post
    There is no Scripture necessary to support the historical truth. The gifts ceased by order of the leaders of the church, who found they got in the way. In most every century, a person or two may be found, exercising either gift, and condemned by the church. The catholics still have a law on the books, over 1000 years old, that tongues are to be assumed demonic until proven otherwise. Why have such a law if they had ceased?

    An argument can be made from I Cor. 12, that if the gifts ceased, so did the gift of apostles and prophets (since they are used together thoughout that chapter). But the fivefold ministry Scripture, Eph. 4:11-13 makes it clear that all 5 ministries will cease only when a certain condition is achieved (fullness of the Body...). You therefore cannot have pastors unless you also have prophets and apostles, as they are to cease at the same time. But curiously, the word "church" occurs nowhere in that chapter. That's what happened; the church threw them out, but the gifts continued among the people of God.
    Why aren't more peoiple liking this post. Bewildering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!! Nice. Kinny, just like you said FIVE, and, to ex out some of the offices and not ALL is re-writing your own God-breathed, WRITTEN Scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossnote View Post
    Whether the gifts ceased or not has little to do with 'power' Look at the Corinthian Church full of gifts but very little godliness...rather selfishness, sectarian fighting, little care about incest amongst them, drunkeness during the Lord's Supper, boasting,, ascribing to false doctrine etc., etc.
    All along they should have been seeking the Giver rather than the gifts who gives as He wills.
    The word 'POWER,' crossnoted, bro, is in all caps so how you're coming up with your interprettation I don't know. Do I even use the word in my post? I don't think so.

    But you know who is called 'the Power' in Scripture, right?

    And, the word 'power,' if it were in small caps would simply be seeing GOD'S POWER in those gifts, that they are heir apparent from Him who knew that exact Scripture would powerfully go to work through Him once it was written in Scripture. Remember, there is no power in us, what we do is NOTHING, what God does through us, bro, is everything
    Without God, we have nothing. With Him, we have everything we ever need, and, more.

    Is compassion compassion at all if it's not based on the Truth ?

    The Holy Spirit leads ALL believers lives, wants to. Are you letting Him lead yours ?

    God bless your days !

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