Killing Animals?!

[tryingtofindhim]

I know God gave us dominion over the animals, but anyone else disagree with the way people treat/kill the animals just so we can eat them. I mean the way they treat chickens espicially at places like McDonalds and Chickfila is horrible. MY dad says being a vegetarian is basically sinning against God since he gave us animals to eat. I'm a vegetarian. My question is: Is it a sin not to eat animals because you know they are being treated poorly?

[wwjd_kilden]

maybe we should rather stand up and make sure they HAVE TO treat them better....

[Kathleen]

it says in the bible that all things are good to eat.
But in regard to them being poorly treated... I think they should be treated well, but I also thing on the other side, there never going to be doctors or lawers :S

[socperkins]

No it's not a sin to be a vegetarian it's just a life choice.

If you want animals that were not tortured in order to become your meal, find yourself a kosher butcher.

[DinoDillinger]

I don't believe it's a sin to not eat meat, but if your worried about it how they are treated, eat kosher meats, they are killed in a humane manner.

About the scriptures regarding food, Jesus and the apostles all kept kosher. I believe it was James in Acts(15:29), in regards to the gentiles and the law concerning food, things offered to idols and things strangled should be avoided.

I'm not sure God originally intended animals as food:

Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

It's only later, after the flood, that he says:

The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

Interestingly, this didn't happen immediately after the fall. It was only when things got bad enough to flood that God allowed people to do it. I think it's pretty clear that meat eating is not an obligation and that it's a concession to the state of the world. Dominion, after all, is not simply power. The same idiom, "put into your hands," is most often used to talk about captured enemies or destroyed towns:

"Follow me," he ordered, "for the LORD has given Moab, your enemy, into your hands."

They fought against you, but I gave them into your hands. I destroyed them from before you, and you took possession of their land.

When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife.

i.e. yes, we have dominion over the animals, but this is the result of the fallen state of the world, not the natural order. The "fear and dread" that exist among the species is part of the curse on all creation, not a blessing to mankind. It may not be a sin to eat meat, because God has allowed it and that is the state of the world, and it is not wrong to recognize our dominion, but to think that it is a good thing is like gloating over the corpse of an enemy. Does anyone come away from killing unscathed?

One Christian philosopher, I forget who, argued that even if animals do not have minds and are only pretending to suffer, to abuse an animal wounds the charity of the abuser. If I spend my day knifing the couch, I may not have hurt a living being, but I've certainly done something negative to my own mind. I think it's the same here. Unnecessarily violent killing can have an impact on the butcher, even if there is no moral evil done in the act itself.

Be careful, though. If vegetarianism, compassionate killing, or meat eating become a religious duty, you're treading in dangerous waters. Paul pertinently said:

Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

He's not saying here, by the way, that vegetarians have weak faith, but that there are people who make up for a lack of faith with pseudo-religious observations they created for themselves. In other words, don't make vegetarianism or meat eating an issue of sin or faith or salvation (and don't let anybody else).

[Tegelik]

Originally Posted by tryingtofindhim

I know God gave us dominion over the animals, but anyone else disagree with the way people treat/kill the animals just so we can eat them. I mean the way they treat chickens espicially at places like McDonalds and Chickfila is horrible. MY dad says being a vegetarian is basically sinning against God since he gave us animals to eat. I'm a vegetarian. My question is: Is it a sin not to eat animals because you know they are being treated poorly?

The bible answers these topics very specifically. If someone wants to be a vegetarian, let them be. The bible doesn't just say, that you can be a vegetarian, it even says, that other people shouldn't even try to convince you otherwise or argue with you about it. The bible also says it is it is wrong to kill an animal without a reason or to torture him.

[Kathleen]

Originally Posted by Tegelik

The bible answers these topics very specifically. If someone wants to be a vegetarian, let them be. The bible doesn't just say, that you can be a vegetarian, it even says, that other people shouldn't even try to convince you otherwise or argue with you about it. The bible also says it is it is wrong to kill an animal without a reason or to torture him.

Can u tell me where to find these scriptures please - im debating this in school

[Tegelik]

I didn't read the previous post and it's too late to edit. What I wanted to find, was that: One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

No-one should look down on you. That's the part I meant, when I said "other people shouldn't even try to convince you otherwise or argue with you about it". Oh well.

The part about not killing and torturing animals.. somewhere in the beginning of the bible. =P Just start reading genesis and you should find it. I'll try to find that scripture.

[Tegelik]

Originally Posted by Tegelik

The part about not killing and torturing animals.. somewhere in the beginning of the bible. =P Just start reading genesis and you should find it. I'll try to find that scripture.

Uh.. I can't find it. o_O I definitely remember reading from the bible, that you shouldn't kill an animal without a reason. Now I'm not sure, where it says that. I read that part years ago.

I'm not familiar with that verse specifically, but Proverbs 12:10 has

A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.

[oopsies]

Originally Posted by Kathleen

Can u tell me where to find these scriptures please - im debating this in school

I think I just read it in Exodus and Leviticus. There are a lot of rules concerning how to make sacrifices to God, bestiality, injury by animals, etc. I don't recall a particular verse that says don't treat animals cruelly but then, it's a big book.

Or Google the question, "What does the Bible say about treating animals poorly?"

Originally Posted by tryingtofindhim

I know God gave us dominion over the animals, but anyone else disagree with the way people treat/kill the animals just so we can eat them. I mean the way they treat chickens espicially at places like McDonalds and Chickfila is horrible. MY dad says being a vegetarian is basically sinning against God since he gave us animals to eat. I'm a vegetarian. My question is: Is it a sin not to eat animals because you know they are being treated poorly?

Actually we were designed by God to be vegetarians. Meat and the other things we eat today are
not good for our bodies and causes many health issues.

Many will not agree that we were designed to be vegetarians but in the garden, there was no killing.
Death did not start till man sinned.
What we eat or do not eat is not a sin against God.

I don't think it is a sin to eat meat. Animal abuse is rampant all over the world. Cows are slaughtered
in very horrible, painful ways too. This issue would be your personal choice. God has no Laws in
regard to this matter than I am aware of. Jesus did not point out any foods were are not to eat
when He was here on earth.

I understand your point. Life is brutal. Many Americans are protected from the abuses that are
every day occurrences around the world. These same things happen to people around the world
every day. As long as evil is in the world, there will be abuse. But animals are a main source of
food. If they were removed, hundreds of things we take for granted would disappear too.

I understand and look forward to Christ return so all the abuse will stop. Until then, I guess we
just endure.

[MaggieMye]

HOW can McDonalds treat chickens poorly when they arrive at the restaruants already DEAD??

It is not a sin to eat meat. It is not sin to not eat meat. What IS sin, is to push one's view to eat or not to eat meat on another person.
Cruelty to animals is wrong. They should be in places that afford mobility and good nutrition and clean air. Animals such as chickens, turkeys, cattle, buffalo, sheep, lambs, pigs and even fish are ALL raised for the purposes of man's comsupmtion. In the OT, it was sin to eat port and shellfish and other meats. In the NT, God tells us that we need only give THANKS to Him and all is considered clean.
Animals to not have a spirit as man does. They do have souls (mind, will and emotion). Heaven is for God and His family....humans that have committed and submitted to Him. Animals are what God created FOR OUR USE. When we treat animals with respect prior to eating them, we are honoring God's creation, which is good. No human has the right to dishonor another creature created by God, whether it is an animal, plant, person or angel, including Michael, Gabrial AND LUCIFER!!
Maggie

[Slepsog4]

Neither McD nor Chick-fil-A own their own farms. They purchase the meat from suppliers. It is no only dead but has been processed (i.e., butchered and breaded).

Does the chicken KNOW that it is being treated poorly or is this merely the impression that some people have about chickens?

Does the one complaining about the abuse of poultry do anything about the abortion of preborn humans or about the abuse of children and the elderly or even euthanasia??

[carpetmanswife]

Yeah , lets save the whales * and chickens* and kill our babies!!!
something is SERIOUSLY wrong in America folks

Originally Posted by carpetmanswife

Yeah , lets save the whales * and chickens* and kill our babies!!! something is SERIOUSLY wrong in America folks

*scratches head* Is it ok if we discuss things other than abortion if we're not having abortions, but are eating meat?

[MahogonySnail]

It's always puzzled me how anyone can claim to kill an animal humanely, because animals aren't human, shouldn't they be killed animalely?

[wwjd_kilden]

about all the bad stuff we eat nowdays: yes, we do eat a lot of things we shouldn't, but that doesn't have to mean that meat is the problem...

actually, meat is healthy, and it is the best source of protein, obviously. - Honor to those wo manage to stay vegetarian, but I could not, i'd loose far too much weight. it is interesting though, that if we ate less meat we'd have moore food, because we spend more food "making" meat than we spend eating.
But then again, the rich countries don't share with the ppor anyways, so even if we saved the corn and other stuff, we'd just end up thowing it away when it got too old (we already do that in good years....)

Maybe we should rather treat the animals we Do make food of better, and have fewer of them... if everyone eats moe plants and less meat, it gets easier to have room and time for the creatures we do use as meat...