G
Graybeard
Guest
time for me to unsubscribe from this thread as I'm getting dizzy from going round and round and round........
What Laws are still valid to christians
- Thread starter vic1980
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W
Welshman
Guest
And I'm afraid many feel the same as greybeard I might not agree with him on many things but on this last post greybeard has hit the nail on the head round and round and round and round and so on it goes endlessly bk ant to and more verse for verses sake it will never be settled til he comes takes two sticks and joins them to become one stick in his hand( the reader knows who the sticks are) ?, faith will give way to sight many shall weep many rejoice? But words will no longer be needed ...
Paul do we do away with the Law?
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
and I think satan enjoys when people dont even try because "it is IMPOSSIBLE to be as the Creator wants..."
Just like in the garden of eden, satan is always finding ways to fool people.
Ephesians 4:13, "Until we all come to the same unity of the faith, and of the same knowledge the Son of Yahweh has, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Messiah."
Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may come from the presence of Yahweh."
1 Kepha (Peter) 1:14-17, "As obedient children, do not conform to the former lusts you had when you lived in ignorance; But as He Who called you is holy, so you also become holy in all your conduct; Because it is written: Be holy, for I am holy. And if you call on the Father, Who, without respect of persons judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence"
He created us, He would not ask the impossible, He empoweres us with the Holy Spirit so we may walk in His ways.
W
Welshman
Guest
Give it a rest now your sending people to sleep ? Swinging from ere to there pages of diatribe lets as others have said move on now enough said?
Zecharyah 7:7-13, "Were not these words of Yahweh proclaimed by the former prophets, when Yerusalem was inhabited and successful, with her villages surrounding her, when men inhabited the South; Negev, and the lowland; western foothills? And the word of Yahweh came to Zecharyah, saying: This is what Yahweh of hosts says! Execute true judgment, and show mercy and compassion, everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor. Let none of you imagine; think or devise, evil in your heart against your brother. But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which Yahweh of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from Yahweh of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says Yahweh of hosts!"
Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt."
Ephesians 5:11, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead, expose them."
W
Welshman
Guest
Words words words? I'm gna use your pages as a screensaver they have cured my insomnia just one glance at your words and my eyes become like concrete? Couldn't imagine it would disappear so quickly?
The words of Yahweh are sweeter than honey, I posted 3 passages and that is your reaction? Telling...
"they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which Yahweh of hosts had sent by His Spirit"
Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."
C
chubbena
Guest
I like New Living translation for Isaiah 28:10 in this situation: He tells us everything over and over--one line at a time, one line at a time, a little here, and a little there!"
Isaiah asked: Lord, how long will this go on?
And He replied: Until their towns are empty, their houses are deserted, and the whole country is a wasteland; until the Lord has sent everyone away, and the entire land of Israel lies deserted. If even a tenth—a remnant—survive, it will be invaded again and burned. But as a terebinth or oak tree leaves a stump when it is cut down, so Israel’s stump will be a holy seed...
There's nothing new under the sun.
Isaiah asked: Lord, how long will this go on?
And He replied: Until their towns are empty, their houses are deserted, and the whole country is a wasteland; until the Lord has sent everyone away, and the entire land of Israel lies deserted. If even a tenth—a remnant—survive, it will be invaded again and burned. But as a terebinth or oak tree leaves a stump when it is cut down, so Israel’s stump will be a holy seed...
There's nothing new under the sun.
H
Hoffco
Guest
To Welshman, I see you are on line, may we can talk and you can try to defend you HERESY of "FAITH ONLY" Salvation and your anti nominism. You are totaly out of line with the Bible's basic doctrine, 101 on sal.. To Apostal2013, where does the N.T. say that "Jesusy did rise on the sabbath" ? Please tell me, HOW did you receive "the revealing", was it from just reading the N.T. or was it from some spirit, angel. ?? or from the O.T.? To Hizikyah, I love your quotes from the ?Bible, N.& O. Testaments,But why is , that you can not come to maturity in the N.T. teaching on the "sabbaths"? The O.T. is obsolete, and gone as far as commanding Christians. We can get much insight on God in the old but the full revelation is only in the N.T.. Love to all, Hoffco
W
Welshman
Guest
J
jamessuresh
Guest
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matt. 7 : 12
Old Covenant or New Covenant - Old Adam or Last Adam?
Wow - this really is an amazingly long thread. Disputes regarding Old/New Covenant issues have been continuous since before the Jerusalem Council.
For me it boils down to this:
Unless you're operating within that paradigm (the paradigm of focusing on Christ, His Work, and who we are in Him - to which the entirety of the Scriptures point), there is just endless religious squabbling.
After the Cross, these are God's instructions (Torah) to mankind:
1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
And Jeremiah 31 is clear:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant [how can it be 'not like the covenant' and be the same covenant
?] that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt [identifies the covenant referred to as the Laws given through Moses at Sinai], my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law [already stated as being 'not the same' as the Laws given at Sinai, and specified in 1 John 3:23 above] within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. [check out vs 24 in 1 John 3 above] For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Echoes of this in 2 Corinthians 5:17-19:
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
And for the 'the New Covenant is only for the house of Israel' bit, check this out:
Ephesians 3:1-6
For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
After the Work of Christ, we see this regarding the Old Covenant in comparison with the New Covenant:
2 Corinthians 3
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
4 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.10 Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. 14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
And this:
Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
Chapters 7-10 are devastating to the Law-keeping position; those chapters detail the weakness and uselessness of the Law in comparison to the New Covenant in Christ and also the superior High Priesthood of Christ.
Not only that, but it's made clear that with the New High Priesthood of Christ, there is in fact a change of the Law (not a change 'in' the Law).
An entire New Covenant had to be put in place, as Christ Jesus was made High Priest by an oath from God, and Christ is not of the Tribe of Levi, but of the Tribe of Judah.
What does that mean? Jesus cannot legally administer the Old Covenant.
Those who put themselves under the Old Covenant have NO representation in the Heavenly Tabernacle.
Those who preach Law-keeping preach that sacrifices will resume in the Millennium. Really? There will be no priesthood to administer that - Jesus is a Priest Forever by the power of an indestructible life (Heb. 7:16), and He's of the Tribe of Judah, which cannot legally administer the Old Covenant, and there are no sacrifices in the New Covenant save sacrifices of Praise \o/! Not only that, but Christ Jesus was the final, once for all sacrifice:
Hebrews 10:8-10
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Nope, the New Covenant is His thing, and there are no sacrifices in the New Covenant, because
Hebrews 10:1-14
For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. [Remember that in Jer 31 God says He will remember our sins no more, and in 2 Cor 5:19 God says that in Christ, He was reconciling man to Himself, not counting our trespasses against us] 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Jesus sat down when His Work was done; something that priests in the Temple were never permitted to do - their work was never done - there were always more sins that needed to be dealt with.
When one is in Christ, however, this happens:
Colossians 1:13-14
13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
And this:
Ephesians 2:4-9
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Again, when one understands the Gospel,
. . . issues of Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant, Forgiveness, Righteousness, Works, Fruit, Once Saved Always Saved . . . they all fall right into place!
And the gratitude and love for Him wells up - not because we're commanded to, but because He first loved us. We are His, and we are as He is in this world (walk as Jesus walked - in love):
1 John 4:7-19
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.
And for those of you who are all-fired up for the Law and fulfilling it's demands by efforts of the flesh, this is what the New Covenant Scriptures say to you:
And the really cool thing? Even love is not a work, but a fruit of the Spirit that He produces in and through us:
And to bear the Fruit of the Spirit we must be led by Him, and if we are led by the Spirit -
.
Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG
Wow - this really is an amazingly long thread. Disputes regarding Old/New Covenant issues have been continuous since before the Jerusalem Council.
For me it boils down to this:
- Who Jesus is
- What He came to do
- What that actually accomplished, and
- Who those who put their faith and trust in Him are in Him.
Unless you're operating within that paradigm (the paradigm of focusing on Christ, His Work, and who we are in Him - to which the entirety of the Scriptures point), there is just endless religious squabbling.
After the Cross, these are God's instructions (Torah) to mankind:
1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant [how can it be 'not like the covenant' and be the same covenant
Echoes of this in 2 Corinthians 5:17-19:
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
Ephesians 3:1-6
For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
2 Corinthians 3
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
4 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.10 Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. 14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
Not only that, but it's made clear that with the New High Priesthood of Christ, there is in fact a change of the Law (not a change 'in' the Law).
An entire New Covenant had to be put in place, as Christ Jesus was made High Priest by an oath from God, and Christ is not of the Tribe of Levi, but of the Tribe of Judah.
What does that mean? Jesus cannot legally administer the Old Covenant.
Those who put themselves under the Old Covenant have NO representation in the Heavenly Tabernacle.
Those who preach Law-keeping preach that sacrifices will resume in the Millennium. Really? There will be no priesthood to administer that - Jesus is a Priest Forever by the power of an indestructible life (Heb. 7:16), and He's of the Tribe of Judah, which cannot legally administer the Old Covenant, and there are no sacrifices in the New Covenant save sacrifices of Praise \o/! Not only that, but Christ Jesus was the final, once for all sacrifice:
Hebrews 10:8-10
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:1-14
For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. [Remember that in Jer 31 God says He will remember our sins no more, and in 2 Cor 5:19 God says that in Christ, He was reconciling man to Himself, not counting our trespasses against us] 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
When one is in Christ, however, this happens:
Colossians 1:13-14
13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
And this:
Ephesians 2:4-9
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
- Who Jesus is
- What He came to do
- What that actually accomplished, and
- Who those who believe are in Him
. . . issues of Law and Grace, Old Covenant and New Covenant, Forgiveness, Righteousness, Works, Fruit, Once Saved Always Saved . . . they all fall right into place!
And the gratitude and love for Him wells up - not because we're commanded to, but because He first loved us. We are His, and we are as He is in this world (walk as Jesus walked - in love):
1 John 4:7-19
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.
Romans 13:8-10
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
And the really cool thing? Even love is not a work, but a fruit of the Spirit that He produces in and through us:
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
And to bear the Fruit of the Spirit we must be led by Him, and if we are led by the Spirit -
Galatians 5:18
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
It really is as simple as that 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
.Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG
W
Welshman
Guest
Jgig? We're on earth have you been friend one off the most common sense threads in a myriad of posts bk and to in endless verse game? Thank god for your clarity? Wow at last another making it simple? Get prepared for a backlash of almost every point you talked about , bt I beg not another 164 pages and counting get ready for the ambush brother/sister / friend...
W
Welshman
Guest
Re: Old Covenant or New Covenant - Old Adam or Last Adam?
Long post maybe bt well structured each point and intent? Regards a change of the law not in the law??? Crucial point? Yes well said jgig, at last, reason, common sense, Jesus in the here and now every facet of our lives he knows?
Long post maybe bt well structured each point and intent? Regards a change of the law not in the law??? Crucial point? Yes well said jgig, at last, reason, common sense, Jesus in the here and now every facet of our lives he knows?
Nope.
We are saved by true faith.
True faith obeys.
True faith includes obedience, which is not something added to faith.
Faith that does not obey is counterfeit.
We are saved by true faith, not by counterfeit faith.
We are saved by true faith, not by faith and works.
Holy = set apart, from sin, and to God.
Holiness is love of God and neighbor.
Love does not sin against its object.
Re: Old Covenant or New Covenant - Old Adam or Last Adam?
Just a little clearing up of a few things.
Wasn't the covenant a bilateral contract based on the Mosaic law, rather than the law itself?
The contract was that God would be their God and they would be his people.
The conditions for fulfillment of the bilateral contract was obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ex 19:5-8,
24:6-8).
Granted, so closely were they linked that Covenant and Law were sometimes used interchangeably.
But the Covenant (contract) and the Law (conditions) are two separate things.
The laws given at Sinai were the conditions, not the covenant (contract) itself, to be their God.
A bilateral covenant is broken when one of the covenanting parties fails to fulfill the condition.
The Sinaitic Covenant was broken by the people.
God promised a different covenant, not like the bilateral covenant of Sinai conditioned on obedience to the Mosaic Law.
The new covenant would be a unilateral covenant (like the land promise) with no conditions required of the people.
God alone would fulfill the new covenant, a covenant of grace, not works.
Righteousness would not be by obedience to the Mosaic law.
Righteousness would be given freely (Ro 5:17, 3:21), poured as it were, right into their hearts.
Covenants are not administered, they are mediated.
The High Priest administered the Mosaic Law, its sacrifices, ceremonies, cleansings, etc., etc., etc.,
Moses mediated the Sinatic Covenant.
So a New Covenant was put into place, not because the priesthood was changed, for the priesthood did not mediate the covenant.
Christ was made the Mediator of the New Covenant because it was made in his blood, in fulfillment of God's promise of Jer 31:31-34.
And Christ was made the eternal High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, in fulfillment of Ps 110:4, and as High Priest offered the sin sacrifice (of himself), according to the Mosaic Law, for the sin of those who believe in him.
Christ Jesus is a greater mediator than Moses, for he is Mediator of a greater covenant with better promises.
And Christ Jesus is a greater High Priest than the Aaronic High Priest, for he is an eternal High Priest offering a once-for-all sacrifice of himself, for the sin of those who believe in him.
no legal administration of the Sinaitic Covenant slip out of the Biblical and into the human.
Covenants are not administered, they are mediated.
And putting oneself under the Sinaitic Covenant rather than the New Covenant is not about
no representation in the heavenly tabernacle, it's about rejecting the only sacrifice for forgiveness
of their sin leaving them in the condemnation of their unbelief (Jn 3:18, 36).
An excellent post, nonetheless.
Excellent post, JGIG.And Jeremiah 31 is clear:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant [how can it be 'not like the covenant' and be the same covenant?] that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt [identifies the covenant referred to as the Laws given through Moses at Sinai],
Just a little clearing up of a few things.
Wasn't the covenant a bilateral contract based on the Mosaic law, rather than the law itself?
The contract was that God would be their God and they would be his people.
The conditions for fulfillment of the bilateral contract was obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ex 19:5-8,
24:6-8).
Granted, so closely were they linked that Covenant and Law were sometimes used interchangeably.
But the Covenant (contract) and the Law (conditions) are two separate things.
A bilateral covenant (to be their God) is separate from its conditions (obedience to the Mosaic law).
The laws given at Sinai were the conditions, not the covenant (contract) itself, to be their God.
A bilateral covenant is broken when one of the covenanting parties fails to fulfill the condition.
The Sinaitic Covenant was broken by the people.
God promised a different covenant, not like the bilateral covenant of Sinai conditioned on obedience to the Mosaic Law.
The new covenant would be a unilateral covenant (like the land promise) with no conditions required of the people.
God alone would fulfill the new covenant, a covenant of grace, not works.
Righteousness would not be by obedience to the Mosaic law.
Righteousness would be given freely (Ro 5:17, 3:21), poured as it were, right into their hearts.
Here, it needs to be clarified that the High Priest did not administer the covenant.
Covenants are not administered, they are mediated.
The High Priest administered the Mosaic Law, its sacrifices, ceremonies, cleansings, etc., etc., etc.,
Moses mediated the Sinatic Covenant.
So a New Covenant was put into place, not because the priesthood was changed, for the priesthood did not mediate the covenant.
Christ was made the Mediator of the New Covenant because it was made in his blood, in fulfillment of God's promise of Jer 31:31-34.
And Christ was made the eternal High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, in fulfillment of Ps 110:4, and as High Priest offered the sin sacrifice (of himself), according to the Mosaic Law, for the sin of those who believe in him.
Christ Jesus is a greater mediator than Moses, for he is Mediator of a greater covenant with better promises.
And Christ Jesus is a greater High Priest than the Aaronic High Priest, for he is an eternal High Priest offering a once-for-all sacrifice of himself, for the sin of those who believe in him.
Here, the notions of no representation in the heavenly tabernacle and
no legal administration of the Sinaitic Covenant slip out of the Biblical and into the human.
Covenants are not administered, they are mediated.
And putting oneself under the Sinaitic Covenant rather than the New Covenant is not about
no representation in the heavenly tabernacle, it's about rejecting the only sacrifice for forgiveness
of their sin leaving them in the condemnation of their unbelief (Jn 3:18, 36).
An excellent post, nonetheless.
Re: Old Covenant or New Covenant - Old Adam or Last Adam?
Actually it did because Moses was a Levite. Moses was definitely a priest, just as Christ was when he mediated the new covenant.
Actually it did because Moses was a Levite. Moses was definitely a priest, just as Christ was when he mediated the new covenant.
Holy = Set apart to God, in Christ.
Holiness is not 'not sinning', or even loving God and neighbor, it is being in Christ:
Hebrews 10:10
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Love is the Fruit produced by the Holy Spirit because we are in Christ, and led by the Spirit:
Galatians 5:18, 22-23
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
So we see that being in Christ is where the gifts of Forgiveness, Righteousness, and Life come, and not only that, but the commands to love God and others is fulfilled in Christ as we surrender to Him and He lives His Life in and through us.
Grace is totally Amazing.
-JGIG