What Laws are still valid to christians

Hizikyah · Sep 23, 2013

What ever translation v25 from is terrible, if this is true Yahweh has error, I can say for certian Yahweh does not have error

Ezekiyl 20:25, "So they were allowed to have statutes that were not right, and their own judgments, by which they should not live,"

Ezekiyl 20:26, "And I allowed them to be polluted in their own gifts--in that they caused to pass through the fire all that opened the womb; burning their firstborn children to their gods so that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am Yahweh."

Yahweh allowed them to go their own way, the Israylites took on the worship of the local gaods of Canaan, Moab, etc

They used to set their first born on the hands of a glowing red hot statue of Molech

p_rehbein · Sep 23, 2013

With regards to the "harvest of the land," given that the majority of folks today do not "harvest land," I don't see how they could ever hope to fulfill these instructions, unless they apply it in another way, such as "charity."

Hizikyah · Sep 23, 2013

p_rehbein said:

All these are contained with in Yahshua's 2 GREATEST COMMANDMENTS not only, but greatest. Problem is, people transgrees these and say they are following the 10 or 2, these are Yahweh's detailed explanation of the 2, I will rely on Yahweh and not my own imagination of the details here. Not in anyway implying or attaching you to this transgression, but alot of "christains" I have fellowshipped with regularly transgress these why saying they love.

"Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who claims to love and practices falsehood.
"

JaumeJ · Sep 23, 2013

The following are comparitive translations of verse 25..........

This post is not to be contentious in any manner. It is in the spirit of sharing the Word with fellows in Yeshua, Jesus.

Eze 20:25

(ASV)
Moreover also I gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances wherein they should not live;

(Brenton)
So I gave them commandments that were not good, and ordinances in which they should not live.

(CEV)
I gave them laws that bring punishment instead of life,

(Darby)
And I also gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances whereby they should not live;

(DRB)
Therefore I also gave them statutes that were not good, and judgments, in which they shall not live.

(FDB)
Et moi aussi, je leur donnai des statuts qui n'étaient pas bons et des ordonnances par lesquelles ils ne pouvaient vivre;

(FLS)
Je leur donnai aussi des préceptes qui n'étaient pas bons, et des ordonnances par lesquelles ils ne pouvaient vivre.

(HOT)
וגם־אני נתתי להם חקים לא טובים ומשׁפטים לא יחיו בהם׃

(HOT+)
וגם[SUP]H1571 אניH589 נתתיH5414 להם חקיםH2706 לאH3808 טוביםH2896 ומשׁפטיםH4941 לאH3808 יחיו׃H2421 [/SUP]
[SUP]

(INR)
Diedi loro perfino delle leggi non buone e dei precetti per i quali non potevano vivere.

(IRL)
E detti loro perfino delle leggi non buone e delle prescrizioni per le quali non potevano vivere;

(ISV)
So I gave them statutes that weren't good and ordinances by which they could not live.

(JPS)
Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and ordinances whereby they should not live;

(KJV)
Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

(KJV+)
Wherefore IH589 gaveH5414 them alsoH1571 statutesH2706 that were notH3808 good,H2896 and judgmentsH4941 whereby they should notH3808 live;H2421

(ROB)
Ba încă le-am dat şi legi care nu erau bune şi rânduieli prin care ei nu puteau trăi;

(SSE)
Por eso yo también les di ordenanzas no buenas, y derechos por los cuales no viviesen;

(Vulgate)
ergo et ego dedi eis praecepta non bona et iudicia in quibus non vivent

(Webster)
Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they should not live;

　
[/SUP]

Hizikyah · Sep 23, 2013

p_rehbein said:

I agree most dont have crops anylonger, you "charity" view is in my opinion great, it is the "pharisee" view that says, "I dont have a field so I dont have to give anything"

In my life I take it to mean if I have extra/abundance give it to the needy.

JaumeJ · Sep 23, 2013

In the comparatives above, Yahweh was by no means in error. This demonstrates further that His chosen people were not intended to be perfect. Had they been perfect salvation would not have been availed to the rest of the nations, that is, to those who will come to Yeshua, Jesus. It is wonderful. Yahweh is perfect, Almighty, Love, and always Good, amen.

p_rehbein · Sep 23, 2013

JUST FYI

KJV
I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
20 .) And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
21 .)Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.
22 .) Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth.
23 .) I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
24 .) Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 .) Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
26 .) And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

CJB:
19 I am ADONAI your God; live by my laws,observe my rulings, and obey them, 20 and keep my shabbats holy; and they will be a sign between me and you, so that you will know that I am ADONAI your God." 21 "'But the children too rebelled against me. They did not live by my laws or observe my rulings, to obey them, which, if a person does, he will have life by them; and they profaned my shabbats. Then I said I would pour out my fury on them and spend my anger on them in the desert. 22 Nevertheless, I withdrew my hand and allowed concern for my own reputation to keep me from letting it be profaned in the sight of the nations who had seen when I brought them out. 23 "'I also raised my hand and swore to them in the desert that I would scatter them among the nations and disperse them through the countries; 24 because they hadn't obeyed my rulings but had rejected my laws and profaned my shabbats, and their eyes had turned toward their fathers'idols. 25 I also gave them laws which did them no good and rulings by which they did not live; 26 and I let them become defiled by their own gifts, in that they offered up their firstborn sons, so that I could fill them with revulsion, so that they would [finally] realize that I am ADONAI.

Hizikyah · Sep 23, 2013

JaumeJ said:

There are 3 different "original" munuscripts, "J" "E" and "P", "J" is oldest, that is what I use.

If the translation of these others is correct than Yahweh has error and places things upon the people that are not just, THIS IS NOT SO, Yahweh is perfect in justice, mercy, love, and righteousness. If we are subject to unfair and unjust commands from Yahweh we have no hope in anything at all, I stand on his promises because He is perfect and just in every way.

Im not saying you are portraying thins, just my 2 cents of this way of translation/forgery.

The "E" writings, which are the 2ndoldest, change the scriptures in over 6,000 places, this is not right

nathan3 · Sep 23, 2013

vic1980 said:

Not the best way to start out a thread, I think if you want to know the Laws still in effect today, you have to go to the Old Testament .

Side Note, the reason I believe, Paul would say what he did there, is because

Acts 9:1-19

King James Version (KJV)

9 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

1 Timothy 1:15

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I believe there is enough scriptural evidence, that Paul felt a need to give women the option Not to teach, therefore protecting them from being harmed if they had been found teaching Christ...

Now to the Thread Title. What Laws are still valid to Christians ? Red is the commandments, blue are notes.

Exodus 20

King James Version (KJV)

20 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ( 1 )

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. ( 2 )

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. ( 3 )

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ( Matthew 12:8 ) ( 4 )

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. ( 5 )

13 Thou shalt not kill. ( Murder in the Hebrew ) ( 6 )

14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. ( 7 )

15 Thou shalt not steal. ( 8 )

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. ( 9 )

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. ( 10 )

18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

Hizikyah · Sep 23, 2013

Eze 20:25, "So they were allowed to have statutes (that were) not right, and (their own) judgments, by which they should not
live."

IMO Yahweh is saying He never allowed or said it was ok to have statues that were not right or to live by judgements in which He did not command.

The next verse about this sacrificing children to Molech idols, shows the context, Yahweh never commanded this abomination nor did He ever condone it. It was wrong and He never by Command allowed it.

BananaPie · Sep 23, 2013

I believe (and adhere to) all ethical laws (God's moral code) are still in effect today. If that were not the case, then the righteousness of Christ would have no meaning. In other words, Jesus Christ is the ultimate ethical God to ever exist; therefore, Jesus is complete in all righteousness and has become our standard "perfect man." Moreover, God the Father has approved of such righteousness to bestow upon all repented sinners wanting redemption for the rest of their lives. The Lord is good!

On the other hand, all "Mosaic Laws" relevant to the Temple oblation are no longer in effect because there is no Temple in Jerusalem where these laws may be obeyed, or at best, attempted to be obeyed.

Likewise, all Levi Temple laws (levitical culture) are no longer in effect because "the veil of the Temple was rent," and we now have the Lord Jesus Christ as our Great High Priest by Whom we can confidently approach God's throne of grace that we may obtain mercy. Praise the Lord!

nathan3 · Sep 23, 2013

Also all the laws against Homosexuality all the laws, against Incest, the laws against eating things strangled in blood. and some others I might be forgetting ?

The only laws done away with, because of Christ sacrifice for us, was the blood sacrifices prescribed by the law, in blood ordinances to forgive sins. Christ is able to forgive our sins .

just-me · Sep 23, 2013

vic1980 said:

After Christ, I read nothing in the Bible that says God became discriminate as to which laws were relevant and which ones were not. There is one change to the law however in Hebrews though. I'll let somebody else refer to the scripture that says that just to develop interest in finding out the truth. Do you have anything to edify our brothers and sisters according to the truth? Or did you just start this threat to instigate differences of opinion without any discriminatory actions, and reconnoitering by our God?

Hizikyah · Sep 23, 2013

BananaPie said:

I believe (and adhere to) all ethical laws (God's moral code) are still in effect today. If that were not the case, then the righteousness of Christ would have no meaning. In other words, Jesus Christ is the ultimate ethical God to ever exist; therefore, Jesus is complete in all righteousness and has become our standard "perfect man." Moreover, God the Father has approved of such righteousness to bestow upon all repented sinners wanting redemption for the rest of their lives. The Lord is good!

On the other hand, all "Mosaic Laws" relevant to the Temple oblation are no longer in effect because there is no Temple in Jerusalem where these laws may be obeyed, or at best, attempted to be obeyed.

Likewise, all Levi Temple laws (levitical culture) are no longer in effect because "the veil of the Temple was rent," and we now have the Lord Jesus Christ as our Great High Priest by Whom we can confidently approach God's throne of grace that we may obtain mercy. Praise the Lord!

Solid_____________

just-me · Sep 23, 2013

nathan3 said:

How would you reconcile these scriptures then if it is no long done? Luke 9:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Romans 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

just-me · Sep 23, 2013

BananaPie said:

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

You have made some very good points, but just for others to know that the temple still exists. Therefore there is still temple worship.

nathan3 · Sep 23, 2013

I also, the laws against sleeping with animals .

There was another that was touched upon little about sacrificing children in fire :

Leviticus 18
21 And thou shalt Not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.

Jeremiah 19:5-15

King James Version (KJV)

5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

Jeremiah 7:31

King James Version (KJV)

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them Not, neither came it into my heart.

Jeremiah 32:35

King James Version (KJV)

35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

RedTent · Sep 23, 2013

I use the lesson plans of a man who takes me through the OT, verse by verse. When we got to the 613 laws that God gave, we studied them as a constitution for how to run the land Joshua led the Hebrews to. The law of the pagan countries made a land that wasn't safe for many people, where even children could be killed as sacrifice to gods, where idols had to be catered to or they would zap your crops. God gave these 613 laws to establish a place that was safe and secure for the people.

Today those laws are read with an eye to that they are to include stoning if disobeyed, and not even learning the restrictions on the stoning. God is saying that these laws are that important.

As an illustration, in our world today it is very dangerous for a woman to have children depending on that the father would always be there to help. In the world God designed, there was protection.

If you read those laws as coming from a loving Father wanting a safe and secure land for His children, it makes for interesting reading.

just-me · Sep 23, 2013

JaumeJ said:

It was because of their rebellion, not because God wanted it that way. Here is the entire point.Ezekiel 20:19-26 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

Romans 1:28-32 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Hizikyah · Sep 23, 2013

RedTent said:

I use the lesson plans of a man who takes me through the OT, verse by verse. When we got to the 613 laws that God gave, we studied them as a constitution for how to run the land Joshua led the Hebrews to. The law of the pagan countries made a land that wasn't safe for many people, where even children could be killed as sacrifice to gods, where idols had to be catered to or they would zap your crops. God gave these 613 laws to establish a place that was safe and secure for the people.

Today those laws are read with an eye to that they are to include stoning if disobeyed, and not even learning the restrictions on the stoning. God is saying that these laws are that important.

As an illustration, in our world today it is very dangerous for a woman to have children depending on that the father would always be there to help. In the world God designed, there was protection.

If you read those laws as coming from a loving Father wanting a safe and secure land for His children, it makes for interesting reading.

Every Law is given to us for our well being and protection. Physically and Spiritually.

What Laws are still valid to christians

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