Lordship salvation an enemy of soulwinning

[roaringkitten]

I'm going to use an illustration to explain how one Biblically comes to Christ. There is a popular teaching today that requires sinners to "stop sinning" and make a commitment to the Lord as a prerequisite to coming to Christ. Repentance in Greek is "metanoia" which means "a change of mind". Concerning salvation, this is a "change of mind about sin and Christ". Many people dont define the term directly which has led to ****able heresy. "Believe" means to "depend upon", in other words faith. The next verse is an example of belief=faith:

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." John 20:27

When a patient goes to the hospital he has realized these things:
1)He is aware of his sickness
2)he knows that he can't do anything on his part to cure himself because otherwise going to the hospital wouldn't be necessary.
3)he trusts the doctors to cure him

Notice, before a patient realizes he is sick he did not feel a need to go to a doctor. Let me parallel this illustration to how we come to Jesus. We are all sick with sin(Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:10). The penalty of sin is death and eternal ****ation(Romans 6:23, Revelation 20:15). Jesus has dealt with our sins and can save us(Acts 10:43, Romans 5:8, 1 John 2:2, John 5:24).

When a sinner goes to the Savior he has realized these things:
1)He is aware of his sin and condemnation under God's law, deserving of hellfire(Romans 3:19-20, Galatians 3:24, Mark 9:45)
2)He knows that he can't do anything on his part to cure himself because otherwise going to the Savior wouldn't be necessary.(Galatians 2:16, Galatians 2:21, Galatians 3:1-3, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6, Titus 3:5)
3)He trusts the Savior to save him(Romans 4:5 , Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13-14, John 3:16, John 3:18, John 3:36, John 7:28, 1 John 5:13 ).

If it was required for one to stop sinning as a requirement to come to Jesus, that is like the doctor saying to the patient, "I would like to cure you of your illness, but before I will help, you must stop being ill and doing the things that made you ill". In fact, it was AFTER the lame man was healed did Jesus say to "sin no more"(John 5:14). It was AFTER the adulterous woman was forgiven, that Jesus said to "sin no more"(John 8:3-11).

If it was required for one to "make a life commitment to the Lord" as a requirement to come to Jesus, that is like the doctor saying to the patient, "I would like to cure you of your illness, but before I will help, you must commit your life to healthy living".

The ROOT of our faith is Jesus(Romans 4:5). The FRUITS of our faith are good works(James 2:18, Ephesians 2:10, Romans 12:1). Genuine faith produces fruit. Just as healing is EVIDENCE of the patient going to the doctor!

"Lord" in Greek is "kurios" which means "supreme in authority". "Lord" does not mean "a commitment to Christ" which is a false corrupt meaning. In fact, in Acts 9:1-5, Saul, on his way to Damascus, was blinded by a light and said "Who art thou, Lord?". Saul recognized he was speaking to the Supreme Being of the universe! Of course he wasn't making a commitment to Christ here!

Using the verse below, many false teachers have demanded that repentance and faith are two completely separate decisions in salvation. Repentance and faith are one and the same.

“Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” Acts 20:21

Using Granville Sharp's Rule of Greek Exegesis:
Any time two singular Greek nouns appear in a sentence and are connected by the conjunction "and" (kai Greek) and the definite article "ho" precedes the first noun, but not the second, they both mean the same person. This means that the appositive, our Lord Jesus Christ, is referring to "God" in the first clause. Rendering this into the sentence it is then to be read as follows:

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, ("EVEN") or ("that is") faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."

I believe Mark 1:15 and John 20:27 are great parallel verses:

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." Mark 1:15

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." John 20:27

"Be not faithless" is a call to BELIEVING. "repent ye" is a call to BELIEVING.

To repent, in regards to salvation, literally means to "change one's mind about sin and Christ". When a lost sinner becomes guilty under Gods law deserving of hellfire, and trusts Christ to save him/her, he has changed his mind about sin and Christ(repented/believed). The sin a lost sinner must turn from to be saved is the sin of unbelief as clearly shown:

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

Please dont let someone fool you into thinking that one must do more than believe(Greek meaning-"rely upon") on Christ to get saved.
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

This verse does NOT say that belief is not enough for salvation. It does say that EVEN the devils believe "that there is one God and tremble". Many people today believe "there is one God" but John 14:6 puts James 2:19 in its proper context:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

Believing in one God will save no one, because we must first come THROUGH Jesus to the Father!

In the gospel of John "repentance" does not even show up once, but the word "believe" sure does a lot. We are even told why John was written:

"But these are written, that ye might BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.." John 20:31

The false teachers who claim repentance and faith are two distinct decisions in salvation have made a serious error. Because if repentance and faith mean something completely different, then the gospel of John deceived us by not defining "repentance". It should be understood that to believe is to repent. And those who have repented have believed. You cant "believe on the Son of God" as the Bible says if you are in denial of your sins.....There is a difference between "believing"(ie: relying upon) and having head knowledge which wont save.

The logic in Lordship salvation eliminates growth in a Christian life, because as far as they are concerned, a lost sinner HAS made Jesus "Lord of their lives" to get saved. They put the cart before the horse, requiring sinners to stop sinning and make commitments, when it is Christians who are commanded to "grow" in the Lord. Getting saved is one thing. Living a consecrated Godly life is an entirely different matter that we Christians should TEACH a new convert!("Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..." Matthew 28:20). Many people will not come to Christ because they KNOW their deeds are evil, and they also know that a Christian should live differently(John 3:19-21).

“As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby” 1 Peter 2:2

The Bible likens a new believer in Christ to a “newborn baby.” Carefully notice that the Bible doesn’t say “baby”; but rather, “newborn baby.” Whereas an older baby might be able to perform certain advanced intellectual functions, such as saying “mama” or “papa”; a newborn baby is completely ignorant of its new life.

Likewise, when a lost sinner repents by turning to Jesus Christ to be forgiven of their sins, they are born-again in Christ Jesus. At that point they are as helpless in their new spiritual life as is a baby physically born from its mother’s womb. Everything becomes new to them…

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” 2 Corinthians 5:17.

This is why the Apostle Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in 1 Peter 2:2, said that a baby believer needs the MILK OF THE WORD to grow.

To tell a lost sinner to commit their lives to Christ to get saved becomes absurd now! It adds SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS to the gospel. To tell a lost sinner to "be willing to turn from sinful habits" is even more subtle but still unBiblical. Salvation is not a deal, it is a FREE GIFT(Romans 5:14-18). A free gift has no strings attached. Sinners are ALWAYS told to "receive it", not "take it but...."

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY." Revelation 22:17

"...there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. LOOK UNTO ME, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:21-22

How much faith is necessary to be saved? ENOUGH to call upon the name of the Lord!
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts 2:21

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:30-31

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13

Wanting to do better, desiring to make Jesus the Lord of one's life, etc.....Is EVIDENCE that one has truly repented/believed.

The lie of Lordship salvation needs to be preached against in every church that is awake to righteousness. It is so subtle, but it is NOT the simple gospel of our Lord Jesus(2 Corinthians 11:3). The devil was subtle enough to deceive Eve, he is subtle enough to lead many to the lake of fire for eternity for corrupting the simple gospel.....ANY teacher who teaches Lordship salvation is a false teacher! I would suggest the body of Christ be VERY careful when preaching the gospel, and when ordering gospel tracts online, to make sure the gospel message is CLEARLY conveyed. I think some gospel tracts are haphazard in their wording, making it confusing to a lost sinner. As unpopular as it may be today, we are commanded to expose these corrupt variant gospel messages, because sadly, many will go to the lake of fire for eternity for believing "another gospel"(Galatians 1:6, 2 Corinthians 11:4).

I consider this verse below to be one of the saddest verses in the Bible, because it says that MOST of the world will end up going to hell. They will be going there because of false religion, corrupt gospel messages preached in churches, their own self righteousness, etc....

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." Matthew 7:13-14

[Thaddaeus]

wow!!!! Great post, I woke this very morning, speaking these words "the simplicity of the Gospel, the simplicity of the Gospel, the simplicity of the Gospel, with Child like faith all that come unto me, will come with simplicity of the gospel" thanks for reminding me, or confirming the simplicity of the Gospel

Originally Posted by roaringkitten

I'm going to use an illustration to explain how one Biblically comes to Christ. There is a popular teaching today that requires sinners to "stop sinning" and make a commitment to the Lord as a prerequisite to coming to Christ. Repentance in Greek is "metanoia" which means "a change of mind". Concerning salvation, this is a "change of mind about sin and Christ". Many people dont define the term directly which has led to ****able heresy. "Believe" means to "depend upon", in other words faith. The next verse is an example of belief=faith:

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." John 20:27

When a patient goes to the hospital he has realized these things:
1)He is aware of his sickness
2)he knows that he can't do anything on his part to cure himself because otherwise going to the hospital wouldn't be necessary.
3)he trusts the doctors to cure him

Notice, before a patient realizes he is sick he did not feel a need to go to a doctor. Let me parallel this illustration to how we come to Jesus. We are all sick with sin(Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:10). The penalty of sin is death and eternal ****ation(Romans 6:23, Revelation 20:15). Jesus has dealt with our sins and can save us(Acts 10:43, Romans 5:8, 1 John 2:2, John 5:24).

When a sinner goes to the Savior he has realized these things:
1)He is aware of his sin and condemnation under God's law, deserving of hellfire(Romans 3:19-20, Galatians 3:24, Mark 9:45)
2)He knows that he can't do anything on his part to cure himself because otherwise going to the Savior wouldn't be necessary.(Galatians 2:16, Galatians 2:21, Galatians 3:1-3, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6, Titus 3:5)
3)He trusts the Savior to save him(Romans 4:5 , Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13-14, John 3:16, John 3:18, John 3:36, John 7:28, 1 John 5:13 ).

If it was required for one to stop sinning as a requirement to come to Jesus, that is like the doctor saying to the patient, "I would like to cure you of your illness, but before I will help, you must stop being ill and doing the things that made you ill". In fact, it was AFTER the lame man was healed did Jesus say to "sin no more"(John 5:14). It was AFTER the adulterous woman was forgiven, that Jesus said to "sin no more"(John 8:3-11).

If it was required for one to "make a life commitment to the Lord" as a requirement to come to Jesus, that is like the doctor saying to the patient, "I would like to cure you of your illness, but before I will help, you must commit your life to healthy living".

The ROOT of our faith is Jesus(Romans 4:5). The FRUITS of our faith are good works(James 2:18, Ephesians 2:10, Romans 12:1). Genuine faith produces fruit. Just as healing is EVIDENCE of the patient going to the doctor!

"Lord" in Greek is "kurios" which means "supreme in authority". "Lord" does not mean "a commitment to Christ" which is a false corrupt meaning. In fact, in Acts 9:1-5, Saul, on his way to Damascus, was blinded by a light and said "Who art thou, Lord?". Saul recognized he was speaking to the Supreme Being of the universe! Of course he wasn't making a commitment to Christ here!

Using the verse below, many false teachers have demanded that repentance and faith are two completely separate decisions in salvation. Repentance and faith are one and the same.

“Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” Acts 20:21

Using Granville Sharp's Rule of Greek Exegesis:
Any time two singular Greek nouns appear in a sentence and are connected by the conjunction "and" (kai Greek) and the definite article "ho" precedes the first noun, but not the second, they both mean the same person. This means that the appositive, our Lord Jesus Christ, is referring to "God" in the first clause. Rendering this into the sentence it is then to be read as follows:

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, ("EVEN") or ("that is") faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."

I believe Mark 1:15 and John 20:27 are great parallel verses:

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." Mark 1:15

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." John 20:27

"Be not faithless" is a call to BELIEVING. "repent ye" is a call to BELIEVING.

To repent, in regards to salvation, literally means to "change one's mind about sin and Christ". When a lost sinner becomes guilty under Gods law deserving of hellfire, and trusts Christ to save him/her, he has changed his mind about sin and Christ(repented/believed). The sin a lost sinner must turn from to be saved is the sin of unbelief as clearly shown:

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

Please dont let someone fool you into thinking that one must do more than believe(Greek meaning-"rely upon") on Christ to get saved.
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

This verse does NOT say that belief is not enough for salvation. It does say that EVEN the devils believe "that there is one God and tremble". Many people today believe "there is one God" but John 14:6 puts James 2:19 in its proper context:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

Believing in one God will save no one, because we must first come THROUGH Jesus to the Father!

In the gospel of John "repentance" does not even show up once, but the word "believe" sure does a lot. We are even told why John was written:

"But these are written, that ye might BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.." John 20:31

The false teachers who claim repentance and faith are two distinct decisions in salvation have made a serious error. Because if repentance and faith mean something completely different, then the gospel of John deceived us by not defining "repentance". It should be understood that to believe is to repent. And those who have repented have believed. You cant "believe on the Son of God" as the Bible says if you are in denial of your sins.....There is a difference between "believing"(ie: relying upon) and having head knowledge which wont save.

The logic in Lordship salvation eliminates growth in a Christian life, because as far as they are concerned, a lost sinner HAS made Jesus "Lord of their lives" to get saved. They put the cart before the horse, requiring sinners to stop sinning and make commitments, when it is Christians who are commanded to "grow" in the Lord. Getting saved is one thing. Living a consecrated Godly life is an entirely different matter that we Christians should TEACH a new convert!("Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..." Matthew 28:20). Many people will not come to Christ because they KNOW their deeds are evil, and they also know that a Christian should live differently(John 3:19-21).

“As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby” 1 Peter 2:2

The Bible likens a new believer in Christ to a “newborn baby.” Carefully notice that the Bible doesn’t say “baby”; but rather, “newborn baby.” Whereas an older baby might be able to perform certain advanced intellectual functions, such as saying “mama” or “papa”; a newborn baby is completely ignorant of its new life.

Likewise, when a lost sinner repents by turning to Jesus Christ to be forgiven of their sins, they are born-again in Christ Jesus. At that point they are as helpless in their new spiritual life as is a baby physically born from its mother’s womb. Everything becomes new to them…

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” 2 Corinthians 5:17.

This is why the Apostle Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in 1 Peter 2:2, said that a baby believer needs the MILK OF THE WORD to grow.

To tell a lost sinner to commit their lives to Christ to get saved becomes absurd now! It adds SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS to the gospel. To tell a lost sinner to "be willing to turn from sinful habits" is even more subtle but still unBiblical. Salvation is not a deal, it is a FREE GIFT(Romans 5:14-18). A free gift has no strings attached. Sinners are ALWAYS told to "receive it", not "take it but...."

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY." Revelation 22:17

"...there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. LOOK UNTO ME, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:21-22

How much faith is necessary to be saved? ENOUGH to call upon the name of the Lord!
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts 2:21

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:30-31

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13

Wanting to do better, desiring to make Jesus the Lord of one's life, etc.....Is EVIDENCE that one has truly repented/believed.

The lie of Lordship salvation needs to be preached against in every church that is awake to righteousness. It is so subtle, but it is NOT the simple gospel of our Lord Jesus(2 Corinthians 11:3). The devil was subtle enough to deceive Eve, he is subtle enough to lead many to the lake of fire for eternity for corrupting the simple gospel.....ANY teacher who teaches Lordship salvation is a false teacher! I would suggest the body of Christ be VERY careful when preaching the gospel, and when ordering gospel tracts online, to make sure the gospel message is CLEARLY conveyed. I think some gospel tracts are haphazard in their wording, making it confusing to a lost sinner. As unpopular as it may be today, we are commanded to expose these corrupt variant gospel messages, because sadly, many will go to the lake of fire for eternity for believing "another gospel"(Galatians 1:6, 2 Corinthians 11:4).

I consider this verse below to be one of the saddest verses in the Bible, because it says that MOST of the world will end up going to hell. They will be going there because of false religion, corrupt gospel messages preached in churches, their own self righteousness, etc....

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." Matthew 7:13-14

Sin means to miss the mark and the church has failed badly to carry forth God's Word and teach
others the true meaning of believing in Christ. Jesus summed it up by saying repent, believe on
Me and receive eternal life.

We were just talking about how God's Word is twisted by many to mislead others. I have spoken
to a few that have twisted God's Word and after being shown they were wrong, still continued
to mislead others. I guess the moral of the story is, lead those you come in contact with only
with what God has said. We can't stop all those"teaching another jesus", but we can do our part
to reach as many as we can.

Those "teaching another jesus" existed in Jesus' time and they exist today. If the world is still
here in another 2,000 years, they most likely will be too. We can't save everyone even if the
loss of those you speak of weighs heavy on our hearts. God expects everyone to take responsibility
for their soul. These you speak of may be being mislead but it is only due to their lack of asking
others outside those "teaching another jesus" if what they are being told is true?

No one is forcing them to follow that teacher just like no one forces anyone to follow Christ. It is
their decision. Just like them, we too can be deceived if we follow blindly. Many that hear about
Christ do no better than these you are speaking about. In my experience many seek God but only
for what He can do for them. They have no intention of dedicating their life to God.

All we can do is pray for these you speak of that God will cause an urgency in their heart to ask
others about what they are being taught and that by doing so, they will encounter the real Jesus.
Jesus said many would be mislead and this can be upsetting and we can not change what Jesus
said. But we can do our part to reach as many of these as we can and ask God to put others in the
paths of the others where they are needed to reach those we can't.

[pickles]

A good post. God bless, pickles

[essokahill]

Thanx for your great research,but in any language u have synonyms, if we can just come and look for words that befits our ideology then we cant really grasp a full undertanding of a passage coz we might be wrong in the context meaning.For example if i say (i pray you},which in context i mean( i beg u},if u just go and find a direct meaning to the word pray,what do u think will happen to the context of my statement?I thank God for Greet and Hebrew but the truth is, i wasnt preached the message of salvation in either of those languages to the saved so my faith doesnt lie in words positions but on a fact on was was accomplished by the love of God.when jesus christ came he told the desciple to preach repent for the kingdome of God is at hand. read also sermon on the mt.i belive to serve christ entails all of it.there is no way u can trully believe without repenting by the spirit so what people present is jsut for clarity allowing the spirit of God to mirrow their life in the form of Godly conviction by the Holy spirit

[watchmen]

Lordship salvation an enemy of soulwinning

If Jesus is not your Lord then He is not your Savior. You know what the real problem is, so many ''christians'' want to get to Heaven, but they want to lord over their own lives instead of yielding to Christ. It don't work that way. I feel sorry for you.

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[MahogonySnail]

I don't know why people need to get their knickers in a twist about which order the gospel is presented in. Faith first or repentance first or both at the same time it doesn't matter big deal.

[timjim]

well I think too that there are so many views on these things that it could realy confuse people. I turned to Christ 3 months ago and i was truly repentent and could tell that the strongholds of my flesh were quickly being torn down, and I started feeling the fruits of the Spirit. The Devil was realy attacting me threw all these different views. There were the eternal security people who say if you make that one full commitment, it don't matter how far you stray you will still go to Heaeven, and if you don't believe this you make God a lier. Then on the other side the other person says that if you believe this you are giving other people a license to sin. So I was realy going through a ruff patch. But I don't think God made it that difficult, there may be some things we don't quite understand but the Lord knows the heart and He knows if we've realy made a commitment or not. As long as I don't reject the Lord I don't have anything to worry about.

[essokahill]

Congratulations for making that bold step in following Jesus by giving ur life to him,Ithink thats the best and the most costly decision u will ever make but the truth is that He is with u always right to the end of time,in prayers and in all aspects of your life.

[watchmen]

The idea that telling people you must make Jesus Lord of your life might scare them away of conversion is ridiculous. If they are not willing to make Christ Lord then they cannot be converted in the first place. roaringkitten's idea of conversion is false conversion, not true conversion, it is definitely not biblical conversion

[Brackenzee]

In this case, Watchmen is right. I don't want to Godwin this thread, but this is a good example:

Hitler believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. If roarkingkitten's view of salvation is correct, then Hitler's faith in these details is enough that Hitler is righteous in God's eyes. The fact that Hitler utterly ignored the commandments of loving one's neighbor is irrelevant.

I would argue that if one legitimately believes in Jesus then he or she will do what Jesus said. Like, you know, not murdering six million people. Among other things.

[Graybeard]

I was taught that "repent" means "to turn away from" ...I have to say that I agree with watchman.

[Brackenzee]

Repent literally means to 'think again'. It's not some sort of quasi-mystical process, it simply means to change your mind:

Think of God as forgiving instead of as judgmental.
Think of sin as harmful instead of desirable.
Think of righteousness as a gift from God rather than a list of rules lording over us.
Think of others before you think of yourself.
Remember that everyone is loved by God and that it's the obligation of the Christian to show the world said love.

That's what I believe Paul was referring to when he said our minds would be renewed.

[MahogonySnail]

If Lord ship salvation works and results in converts being made, which I'm sure it does, tell us again how it is exactly an enemy to soul winng? It's ironic that the purpose of this thread is to show that lordship salvation makes false converts, but the whole purpose of lordship salvation is to make true converts by making Christ not only Savior but also and more importantly, Lord.

[watchmen]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

If Lord ship salvation works and results in converts being made, which I'm sure it does, tell us again how it is exactly an enemy to soul winng? It's ironic that the purpose of this thread is to show that lordship salvation makes false converts, but the whole purpose of lordship salvation is to make true converts by making Christ not only Savior but also and more importantly, Lord.

Amen brother M.S.

[pickles]

Originally Posted by watchmen

If Jesus is not your Lord then He is not your Savior. You know what the real problem is, so many ''christians'' want to get to Heaven, but they want to lord over their own lives instead of yielding to Christ. It don't work that way. I feel sorry for you.

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I dont think he meant that Jesus is not our Lord. He was refuring to accepting Jesus and by his grace we lern to stop sinning and follow Jesus. His concern was that we put the cart before the horse. On our own we cannot stop sinning . But through Jesus we stop because of his grace and love. we love in return and by this, stop sinning. As I learned it is all of the Teachings of Jesus we follow. Not just what we want. But please clarify if I missed the point here.
God bless, pickles

[MahogonySnail]

Yeah "Lord and saviour" is meant to be said in one sentence. Whether you make Jesus Lord first or saviour first it makes no difference you get one you get the other it's only one person not two. Different people respond to different things first, some may see Christ as their saviour first and foremost and others see Christ as their lord first and foremost. It's silly to say that lordship salvation is an enemy to soul winning if it is the gospel being preached, it doesnt matter which order repent or believe first it doesn't matter and as it is in the heart we can't really tell anyway and even the person themself may not know whether they repented or believed first.

[imoss]

Roaring once again exhibiting wisdom beyond his years.

[greatkraw]

Originally Posted by watchmen

The idea that telling people you must make Jesus Lord of your life might scare them away of conversion is ridiculous. If they are not willing to make Christ Lord then they cannot be converted in the first place. roaringkitten's idea of conversion is false conversion, not true conversion, it is definitely not biblical conversion

Jesus certainly talked about 'counting the cost'

I think that every one should question their selves do I really have the Holy Spirit.
Where is our personal relationship my Dad told you this:
Jeremiah 31
“34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Isaiah 54:13
13 All your children shall be taught by the LORD,
And great shall be the peace of your children.
Joel 2:28
“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 “ And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
32 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.”
Jeremiah
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Do not take my Fathers Words lightly, if you know that you have the Holy Spirit talk to Him ! What, you think that the Holy Spirit can not speak?
I trip on so many people put the Word Of God under debate.
When God looks down and see's the saint's through the Blood of Christ "Scarlet-Crimson" He see's you white as snow.
If we have an relationship "intamate"relationship as we aught to with the Father of all spirits it should be with the Holy Spirit.
For we are here but a short time, traveling on through to eternity. The finished product when I shed this flesh. I can't believe I said product. Thank you Jesus my Savior