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C
hi there! I'm really having a hard time finding the meaning of Revelation 12 kjv, can you help me with this?!
I would deeply appreciate your concerns.
I would deeply appreciate your concerns.
Because Jesus was successful as were His diciples and Apostles in their missions in establishing early Christendom, the dragon (Satan) was furious: 'Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you having great wrath, because he knoweth he have but a short time'. Satan had of course been cast out of heaven and was now on earth, he the devil was defeated by risen Christ; Michael and his angels fought with Jesus Christ to defeat Satan, Satan no longer had a place in heaven where he had accused mankind and sought about their destruction. The 'woman' now the 'bride' and her 'remnant seed' (true Christians) is at war with the dragon.
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with her and the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God (written on their hearts- Hebrews 8:8-12), and have the testimony of Christ." Revelations 12:17
C
hi there! I'm really having a hard time finding the meaning of Revelation 12 kjv, can you help me with this?!
I would deeply appreciate your concerns.
I would deeply appreciate your concerns.
Cup-of-Ruin gave a good explanation. The main thing is our Saviour Christ has already won.
I don't get too caught up in the Revelations of the end of the world. It is a matter of concern but
we are commanded to tell others about Christ and not fret over matters God decided thousands
of years ago.
I won't argue on the rapture but the original Greek term used means "totally exempt". This implies
the church will not be here for the tribulation. The tribulation's main purpose is to bring Israel to
the knowledge of Who their Saviour really is that they deny today through the passing of some
21 judgments on the earth.
Instead of me concerning myself with if I will be here or not for the tribulation, I focus on God's
Word and learning to rely on His Strength and Power to empower me to overcome whatever is
in my future. I can't know for sure like many if the church will or will not be here for the tribulation.
But we were never commanded to concern our self with these matters. We are commanded to
be faithful to God no matter what happens. Our bodies are just tools to bring Glory to God.
What happens to our bodies is unimportant. All that matters is how you follow Christ and are
faithful to Him.
As humans we always tend to worry about things we have no control over. For me, I don't think
the church will be here for the rapture because the rapture is judgment and the Bible says We
as God's Children are not appointed unto judgment but eternal life.
But if I am or not is God's decision, not mine. I pray for His Power and Strength to overcome
no matter what comes. By doing this, I am prepared for whatever comes. If it never comes,
that's great too.
But my focus isn't on what may or may not come but on being faithful to God no matter what
happens so I run a good race and finish well.
Cup of ruin was close. The man- child is Jesus, the dragon is Satan, and the Woman is Israel represented by all believers Jew or Gentile. But the running into the wilderness has nothing to do with what He is talking about. It has to do with God's divine protection of those that go into the place that He has prepared for them during the 3.5 years of great tribulation.
Nope, I am a historical premillennialist. Despensationalist don;t even believe the church will be here for the tribulation, nor do they believe the woman includes Gentile believers. Therefore my explanation.........
..............wouldn't fit into the despensational theology at all.
Originally Posted by watchmen
Cup of ruin was close. The man- child is Jesus, the dragon is Satan, and the Woman is Israel represented by all believers Jew or Gentile. But the running into the wilderness has nothing to do with what He is talking about. It has to do with God's divine protection of those that go into the place that He has prepared for them during the 3.5 years of great tribulation.
Cup of ruin was close. The man- child is Jesus, the dragon is Satan, and the Woman is Israel represented by all believers Jew or Gentile. But the running into the wilderness has nothing to do with what He is talking about. It has to do with God's divine protection of those that go into the place that He has prepared for them during the 3.5 years of great tribulation.
C
It's just that you have some dispensationalist elements, like the 3.5 year trib, Dispensationalists focus on that and and your inclusion of Jew (non-christians) with believers (Christians), the early historic premillennialism believers were Israelite Christians, they belivieved that that Christian Church was Israel, Hebrews 2:10, Hebrews 8:8-12, they also believed that they were already at war with the dragon and the antichrists ;1 John 2:18-22.
I can't see that your view is strictly historical premillennialist, it seems to be a mix of that and some Schofield Dispensationalism and the two are not compatible.
I can't see that your view is strictly historical premillennialist, it seems to be a mix of that and some Schofield Dispensationalism and the two are not compatible.
All believers in Christ no matter whether they are Jew or Gentile are the Church/Israel. A believing Jew is not a non christian. Further more the early church,/ the historical premillennialist did believe in a 3.5 year tribulation that was yet to come, that Jesus would physically return at the end of. Jesus still hasn't return incase you haven;t noticed.. Revelation is clear on how long the Trib will last, you better do some more studying. Dispensationalist believe in a 7 year trib, not the biblical 3.5.
There are multiple references to the length of the Tribulation in Revelation.
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
These are all references to the same 3.5 year period known as Great Tribulation.
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
These are all references to the same 3.5 year period known as Great Tribulation.
C
Tribulation was in John's day as there is Tribulation now, there is NO single Anti-christ and or one Tribulation to come in the future for 3.5 years! There are many antichrists and tribulation is on going, right up until the return of Christ. The Trumpet series, the angel advises John to eat the book, measure the temple, the temple is no longer a stone temple in Jerusalem it is the body of Christ - God's Elect, the spirit of God is sent to the Christian believer and they make up the temple. Rev 11:3 there are two witnesses - whom witnessed Christ - Judah and Israel, the kingdom was divided and became two whom witnessed Christ and took the Gospel to the rest of the world as commanded, that was there mission and it was fulfilled. They prophecise for 1260 days (day is a year) - Return from exile 538BC - 722AD. Begins with prophecising of the Messiah through history of true Christian Church, Battle of Tours in 732, Moslem expansion into Europe halted. Constantinople suffers then falls , Rome becomes dominant under the Roman Catholic Church sinals the end of Christendom, Charlemagne (742-814) consolidates Europe under the Roman Catholic Church, temple of God trampled under foot - Carolingian age - extends 1260 years to present day, this is Esau's dominion over Jacob begining with the rise of Catholic Rome in alliance with the rise of the Red (Esau) Banking houses of Europe practicing usury financial power- extends to this day. God's children given power to defend themselves for 1260 years. Roman Church teaches during this period victim-conciousness - Esau's children through their subversion and control of the Catholic Church taught God's elect that sin must be paid for with penance to the church or even buy their release, Esau exacts tribute out of Jacob while making him feel guilty for past crimes whether real or not - extends to this day, through internation banking finance. The Catholic Church headed by the Edomite Vatican has been replaced by a different victim-conciousness; Esau's decendants control the Media, Banking, Political arena, Drug and Pharmaceutical industries, Military complex, Schools and Universities - all are Satanic empowered construct to exact tribute, install victim conciousness, reduce the power given by Christ to His children and instead give power to the beast.
'Watchman', what you need to know above all these timelines is that Rev. 11:2-3; The Temple is a symbol of the people of Christ, We Christians are the Temple of Christ, being the same as His Body, God's wrath will fall 'outside the city', to be inside the city of God is to be a Christian, measure the "temple of God and the alter and the ones worshipping it", John was told not to measure outside it is given unto the nations, and they will recieve Rev. 14:20.
'Watchman', what you need to know above all these timelines is that Rev. 11:2-3; The Temple is a symbol of the people of Christ, We Christians are the Temple of Christ, being the same as His Body, God's wrath will fall 'outside the city', to be inside the city of God is to be a Christian, measure the "temple of God and the alter and the ones worshipping it", John was told not to measure outside it is given unto the nations, and they will recieve Rev. 14:20.
A
I don't get too caught up in the Revelations of the end of the world. It is a matter of concern but
we are commanded to tell others about Christ and not fret over matters God decided thousands
of years ago.
But if I am or not is God's decision, not mine. I pray for His Power and Strength to overcome
no matter what comes. By doing this, I am prepared for whatever comes. If it never comes,
that's great too.
But my focus isn't on what may or may not come but on being faithful to God no matter what
happens so I run a good race and finish well.[/quote]
II Peter3:8-10,13
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
II Kings 2:11-13
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;
Revelation 20:12,22:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I Timothy 1:3-5,19,20
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
II thesalonians 2:3-4,9-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
we are commanded to tell others about Christ and not fret over matters God decided thousands
of years ago.
But if I am or not is God's decision, not mine. I pray for His Power and Strength to overcome
no matter what comes. By doing this, I am prepared for whatever comes. If it never comes,
that's great too.
But my focus isn't on what may or may not come but on being faithful to God no matter what
happens so I run a good race and finish well.[/quote]
II Peter3:8-10,13
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
II Kings 2:11-13
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;
Revelation 20:12,22:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I Timothy 1:3-5,19,20
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
II thesalonians 2:3-4,9-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
A
@cup of ruin
I clearly now understand that the woman in revelation 12 is Israel.am also familiar about her history and i believe you.Because i was confused whether this be an individual or a country. and also that not only the church is suffering from tribulation but us also because we are the body of Christ that our body can be a church if we will built upon a rock inside us.That from everything inside builts a chain reaction to the outside; from individual to the others and to the church, and church to the nations or race, till the prophecy be fulfilled ans so on..so do.
I clearly now understand that the woman in revelation 12 is Israel.
am also familiar about her history and i believe you.Because i was confused whether this be an individual or a country. and also that not only the church is suffering from tribulation but us also because we are the body of Christ that our body can be a church if we will built upon a rock inside us.That from everything inside builts a chain reaction to the outside; from individual to the others and to the church, and church to the nations or race, till the prophecy be fulfilled ans so on..so do.
A
@ watchmen
It sounds to me that you're a neutralist only. I was onced confused long time ago about that "may not come or come.Should happen or should not" but i had conquered that confusions and i was at my mid 20's from what i learned through my experiences w/ God's guidance,I realize you cannot sail on two rivers at the same time or even not on the same time because you cannot serve two mammon.
Mathew6:24
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
you cannot stand between the other and the God!
John 3:16
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesian 2:9
about the:
-the Jewish people, are an ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews,
Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.Judah (Bible), one of the sons of the Biblical patriarch Jacob (Israel). Israel or Juda.
A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, who Christians believe is the Messiah (the Christ in Greek-derived terminology) prophesied in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, and the Son of God.[1]
The term "Christian" is also used adjectivally to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like,"[2] as in the Christian thing to do.
who has come and yet to come and is to come, the redeemer and Emmanuel.
It sounds to me that you're a neutralist only. I was onced confused long time ago about that "may not come or come.Should happen or should not" but i had conquered that confusions and i was at my mid 20's from what i learned through my experiences w/ God's guidance,I realize you cannot sail on two rivers at the same time or even not on the same time because you cannot serve two mammon.
Mathew6:24
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
you cannot stand between the other and the God!
John 3:16
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesian 2:9
about the:
-the Jewish people, are an ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews,
Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.Judah (Bible), one of the sons of the Biblical patriarch Jacob (Israel). Israel or Juda.
A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, who Christians believe is the Messiah (the Christ in Greek-derived terminology) prophesied in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, and the Son of God.[1]
The term "Christian" is also used adjectivally to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like,"[2] as in the Christian thing to do.
who has come and yet to come and is to come, the redeemer and Emmanuel.
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A
I red about and analyze well about the book revelation since we had started to talk about it, of how John the baptist witnessed everything that is done and to be at hand.i'm just a junior a member and haven't been to my "full scientific life-time table existence yet." so feel free to correct;and this knowledge that i have was by choice to believe in God's hand.Co'z there's an argument posted about time period of tribulation on God's wrath.
Jeremiah 29:13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Revelation 10:4,6
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
time therein in the period of tribulation is:
Revelation 11:2,3
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, [1] and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.3 And I will give [2] power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
1. A space half an hour
revelation 8:1
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2.And at the same hour was there a great earthquake
revelation 11:3
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men [1] seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
3.Lived and reigned w/ Christ a thousand years (1st ressurection)
revelation 20:4,5
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
to be continued
i'm just a junior a member and haven't been to my "full scientific life-time table existence yet." so feel free to correct;and this knowledge that i have was by choice to believe in God's hand.Co'z there's an argument posted about time period of tribulation on God's wrath.Jeremiah 29:13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Revelation 10:4,6
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
time therein in the period of tribulation is:
Revelation 11:2,3
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, [1] and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.3 And I will give [2] power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
1. A space half an hour
revelation 8:1
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2.And at the same hour was there a great earthquake
revelation 11:3
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men [1] seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
3.Lived and reigned w/ Christ a thousand years (1st ressurection)
revelation 20:4,5
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
to be continued
C
The tribulation is 7 years. But the use of two 3.5 year intervals is because there is the first 3.5 years
where there is peace because the right hand man of the antichrist is in control and apparently has all
the answers. Once he establishes all the things the world wants in the first half of the 7 years of
tribulation, the devil will reveal himself to mankind and claim his authority over mankind.
It is at the beginning of the second half of the tribulation that the devil himself takes control. It is at
this time that Israel realizes they have been fooled and followed the wrong Saviour.
The tribulation is not to judge the church. The church will be raptured prior to the start of the
tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation is to turn Israel back to God as the brutality of the devil's
persecution on Israel causes Israel to cry out to the God they have forsaken.
But its not worth arguing about. Its God's decision if the church is here or not for the tribulation.
If I had one wish, I would wish that the massive amount of energy that is lost by being used to discuss
things like the tribulation was used to tell others about Christ and His Gift of Eternal Life.
Which is what Christians are commanded to do.
A
You know that God never take back his words and what is said shall be done! what's with that sentence? How about those saints that had been slained and the prophets and the fellowservants and brethren before now? How can everything be consistent if God changes his mind to everything and you know God don't.And where will this people take their justice? From people? maybe nature? or from a goat or a cow maybe?
:A prophecy is the message that has been communicated to a prophet which the prophet then communicates to others.it refers to passages in the Bible which predict future events..
:A prophecy is the message that has been communicated to a prophet which the prophet then communicates to others.it refers to passages in the Bible which predict future events..
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