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The falling away
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Post trib was not in existance until the reformation. They took the false catholic belief of ammilenialism, which did not come until about the 300's. And just changed it.
I love how people love to change catholic dogma just a twist, and call it Gods word!
But then I guess, The way I see it, You are your mothers children!
But thats fine, We can agree to disagree. It will not affect any of our eternal lives, or anyone elses.
I love how people love to change catholic dogma just a twist, and call it Gods word!
But then I guess, The way I see it, You are your mothers children!
But thats fine, We can agree to disagree. It will not affect any of our eternal lives, or anyone elses.
Matthew 21:33-46 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
[SUP]41 [/SUP]They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
This parable is true in detail, but today there is a misdirection causing us to neglect the truth of God that is recorded previously in the Old agreement or Covenant, if you will. The focus should be on our incapability to hold up the to the requirements of the Old Covenant, by showing us in clarity, why we need salvation. Without understanding this concept, we leave ourselves wide open into a misconception of presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice by dying daily, and carrying the cross we have been given. We start to think that salvation is a thing of the past, and disregard it as a way of life. We fail to see that the old nature is still in conflict with the new nature as long as we are still alive in this world. We fail to recognize that all of what God has preserved in His Word is still currently for our enlightenment.
God didn’t break the agreement, we did! Jesus said if our righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees we will not enter into His Kingdom. So are we any better than they if we don’t take care of the vineyard?
1 Timothy 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
Matthew 21:33-45 (KJV)
The householder of the vineyard is God verse 33
The old covenant is agreement between the husbandmen and the householder verse 33
The vineyard is the law verse 34
The servents sent to collect the fruit were the prophets verse 35 and 36
The Son is Jesus Christ verse 37
The husbandmen (plural) were Pharisees verse 45
According to the response of the householder, the husbandmen were the ones at fault. The agreement itself was good, but was broken by the husbandmen. Therefore the husbandmen were guilty of breaking the covenant. The owner that had the covenant written was not the guilty party, and neither were the words of that covenant faulty. The vineyard it still there and we are to take care of it, and eat the good fruit it produces.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
[SUP]41 [/SUP]They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
This parable is true in detail, but today there is a misdirection causing us to neglect the truth of God that is recorded previously in the Old agreement or Covenant, if you will. The focus should be on our incapability to hold up the to the requirements of the Old Covenant, by showing us in clarity, why we need salvation. Without understanding this concept, we leave ourselves wide open into a misconception of presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice by dying daily, and carrying the cross we have been given. We start to think that salvation is a thing of the past, and disregard it as a way of life. We fail to see that the old nature is still in conflict with the new nature as long as we are still alive in this world. We fail to recognize that all of what God has preserved in His Word is still currently for our enlightenment.
God didn’t break the agreement, we did! Jesus said if our righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees we will not enter into His Kingdom. So are we any better than they if we don’t take care of the vineyard?
1 Timothy 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
Matthew 21:33-45 (KJV)
The householder of the vineyard is God verse 33
The old covenant is agreement between the husbandmen and the householder verse 33
The vineyard is the law verse 34
The servents sent to collect the fruit were the prophets verse 35 and 36
The Son is Jesus Christ verse 37
The husbandmen (plural) were Pharisees verse 45
According to the response of the householder, the husbandmen were the ones at fault. The agreement itself was good, but was broken by the husbandmen. Therefore the husbandmen were guilty of breaking the covenant. The owner that had the covenant written was not the guilty party, and neither were the words of that covenant faulty. The vineyard it still there and we are to take care of it, and eat the good fruit it produces.
John 1:14a (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
John 14:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Look closely to these three scriptures of promise. What do you see? The Word does what it must do for our well being, and that is to give us the indwelling Holy Spirit to teach us. John 14:26 says that God will send the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus, His Name meaning “authoritative character.” So God sends us the Holy Spirit according to the authoritative character of Jesus Christ that will cause us to remember what Jesus taught His disciples. We know that Jesus never said anything without His Father’s approval, so that character also represents everything God has ever spoken, and represented also.
John 5:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Now taking all of this into account, we see that whatever Jesus taught would be compatible with His Father that also instructed Israel in all things righteous, and correct. Therefore, nothing in scripture that has been preserved for us is irrelevant just because Jesus fulfilled all things for us. If we say that we are taught by the Holy Spirit and negate any portion of the Word of God, we are clearly enhancing, and have become part of what the Bible defines as the “falling away.”
2 Timothy 2:15 (CJB)
15 Do all you can to present yourself to God as someone worthy of his approval, as a worker with no need to be ashamed, because he deals straightforwardly with the Word of the Truth.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
In summary:
The Holy Spirit does not send us the Word; but through the Word the Holy Spirit is sent. That means every Word of God from the very beginning.
Deuteronomy 8:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Luke 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Are we falling away?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
John 14:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Look closely to these three scriptures of promise. What do you see? The Word does what it must do for our well being, and that is to give us the indwelling Holy Spirit to teach us. John 14:26 says that God will send the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus, His Name meaning “authoritative character.” So God sends us the Holy Spirit according to the authoritative character of Jesus Christ that will cause us to remember what Jesus taught His disciples. We know that Jesus never said anything without His Father’s approval, so that character also represents everything God has ever spoken, and represented also.
John 5:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Now taking all of this into account, we see that whatever Jesus taught would be compatible with His Father that also instructed Israel in all things righteous, and correct. Therefore, nothing in scripture that has been preserved for us is irrelevant just because Jesus fulfilled all things for us. If we say that we are taught by the Holy Spirit and negate any portion of the Word of God, we are clearly enhancing, and have become part of what the Bible defines as the “falling away.”
2 Timothy 2:15 (CJB)
15 Do all you can to present yourself to God as someone worthy of his approval, as a worker with no need to be ashamed, because he deals straightforwardly with the Word of the Truth.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
In summary:
The Holy Spirit does not send us the Word; but through the Word the Holy Spirit is sent. That means every Word of God from the very beginning.
Deuteronomy 8:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Luke 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Are we falling away?
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
John 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
belief does this, brings it forward into all understanding of the truth:
[h=3]Romans 10[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
10 Dear brothers, the longing of my heart and my prayer is that the Jewish people might be saved. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I know what enthusiasm they have for the honor of God, but it is misdirected zeal. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For they don’t understand that Christ has died to make them right with God. Instead they are trying to make themselves good enough to gain God’s favor by keeping the Jewish laws and customs, but that is not God’s way of salvation. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They don’t understand that Christ gives to those who trust in him everything they are trying to get by keeping his laws. He ends all of that.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses wrote that if a person could be perfectly good and hold out against temptation all his life and never sin once, only then could he be pardoned and saved. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But the salvation that comes through faith says, “You don’t need to search the heavens to find Christ and bring him down to help you,” and, [SUP]7 [/SUP]“You don’t need to go among the dead to bring Christ back to life again.”
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For salvation that comes from trusting Christ—which is what we preach—is already within easy reach of each of us; in fact, it is as near as our own hearts and mouths. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For if you tell others with your own mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord and believe in your own heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For it is by believing in his heart that a man becomes right with God; and with his mouth he tells others of his faith, confirming his salvation.
This scripture can be taken as an order that we ought to ask God about things to come concerning the works of His hands. But does the last part of verse 11 really mean that we are to command God to tell us of things to come?
Isaiah 45:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
That type of thinking can lead to misunderstanding if we fail to take into account that our adversary is always walking back and forth looking for some vulnerability in those us who believe in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 5:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
I am endorsing that we all should strive to look for the truth when certain parts of scripture don’t compute in our mind and soul, with those things that we know are true. In Isaiah 45:11-12 (KJV) it seems to indicate that we are commanded by God to command Him to give us information about all that He knows. To a large extent, was this not the tactics of Satan in the Garden of Eden?.
Genesis 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
I’m not saying that the KJV is wrong, I’m saying when a person really considers verse 12, that ought to put a question in our minds if we compare God’s attitude in Job 40:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further
So I will present Isaiah 45:11 written in the Complete Jewish Bible.
11 Thus says ADONAI, the Holy One of Isra'el, his Maker: "You ask for signs concerning my children? You give orders concerning the work of my hands?
12 I am the one who made the earth! I created human beings on it! I- my hands - stretched out the heavens, and directed all their number.
These rhetorical questions that God asks through the prophet Isaiah, are they not food for thought to the believer in Christ Jesus?
Isaiah 45:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
That type of thinking can lead to misunderstanding if we fail to take into account that our adversary is always walking back and forth looking for some vulnerability in those us who believe in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 5:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
I am endorsing that we all should strive to look for the truth when certain parts of scripture don’t compute in our mind and soul, with those things that we know are true. In Isaiah 45:11-12 (KJV) it seems to indicate that we are commanded by God to command Him to give us information about all that He knows. To a large extent, was this not the tactics of Satan in the Garden of Eden?.
Genesis 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
I’m not saying that the KJV is wrong, I’m saying when a person really considers verse 12, that ought to put a question in our minds if we compare God’s attitude in Job 40:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further
So I will present Isaiah 45:11 written in the Complete Jewish Bible.
11 Thus says ADONAI, the Holy One of Isra'el, his Maker: "You ask for signs concerning my children? You give orders concerning the work of my hands?
12 I am the one who made the earth! I created human beings on it! I- my hands - stretched out the heavens, and directed all their number.
These rhetorical questions that God asks through the prophet Isaiah, are they not food for thought to the believer in Christ Jesus?