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O
Why if you have to try to keep God's commandment then you are not a Christian. Christians happily keep God's commandments.
1st John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1st John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
O
I already told you the word translated believes in this verse in a continual preset tense and means someone who continues to believe on the some of God will ultimately receive eternal life just like the word translatted commits in 1st John 3:8-9 is continual present tense and means someone who continues to constantly sin is of the devil.
1st John 3:8-9
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
This does not mean that one sin will send a Christian to hell, and the verse you give does not prove OSAS or say that mere belief on Christ guarantees you eternal life.
1st John 3:8-9
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
This does not mean that one sin will send a Christian to hell, and the verse you give does not prove OSAS or say that mere belief on Christ guarantees you eternal life.
Doing a search for "eternal life" in electronic bible gives a whole range of scriptures that can give a clearer picture. The majority speak of it as something christians don't yet have, but to be given.
1. Eternal life is something which those who believe on Christ have (John 3), but this is in a future sense. They don't actually inherit or receive that until they die...where the righteous go into life eternal at the end:
Mat 25:46Andtheseshallgo awayintoeverlastingpunishment:buttherighteousintolifeeternal.
"in the world to come", eternal life.
Mar 10:30Butheshallreceivea hundredfoldnowinthistime,houses,andbrethren,andsisters,andmothers,andchildren,andlands,withpersecutions;andintheworldtocomeeternallife.
So it is really a promise of eternal life that we receive by believing. If a person received eternal life in this life then it means a person could never die. Eternal life is not just a soul or spirit it is the whole body. That's not possible for most people of course as our bodies must die here on earth first. And then God will give us eternal life with our raised glorified bodies.
Eternal life is a gift which God will give to those after they die. The term is "inherit eternal life", inherit implies something we do not yet have:
Mk 10:17
....Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Eternal life is something to be layed hold of through good works:
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Paul had hope of eternal life, he referred to it as something he did not yet have, but hoped for:
Tit 1:2 on hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the eternal times,
1. Eternal life is something which those who believe on Christ have (John 3), but this is in a future sense. They don't actually inherit or receive that until they die...where the righteous go into life eternal at the end:
Mat 25:46Andtheseshallgo awayintoeverlastingpunishment:buttherighteousintolifeeternal.
"in the world to come", eternal life.
Mar 10:30Butheshallreceivea hundredfoldnowinthistime,houses,andbrethren,andsisters,andmothers,andchildren,andlands,withpersecutions;andintheworldtocomeeternallife.
So it is really a promise of eternal life that we receive by believing. If a person received eternal life in this life then it means a person could never die. Eternal life is not just a soul or spirit it is the whole body. That's not possible for most people of course as our bodies must die here on earth first. And then God will give us eternal life with our raised glorified bodies.
Eternal life is a gift which God will give to those after they die. The term is "inherit eternal life", inherit implies something we do not yet have:
Mk 10:17
....Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Eternal life is something to be layed hold of through good works:
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Paul had hope of eternal life, he referred to it as something he did not yet have, but hoped for:
Tit 1:2 on hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the eternal times,
O
Mahogonoy you are right on point once again here is some scripture to further the point.
Colossians 3:24-25
24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
We do not receive our inheritance (which is life eternal with Christ) until we die.
1st Peter 5:4And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
We receive our rewards including eternal life at the resurrection of the just when Christ returns to set up His Millennial Kingdom, not the moment we say some prayer and or get baptized or ''saved''
Colossians 3:24-25
24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
We do not receive our inheritance (which is life eternal with Christ) until we die.
1st Peter 5:4And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
We receive our rewards including eternal life at the resurrection of the just when Christ returns to set up His Millennial Kingdom, not the moment we say some prayer and or get baptized or ''saved''
R
I wanted to reply to a post that was posted in another room(but the room was closed)
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" -Romans 6:1
The "bearing of bad fruit", is because of man's willingness to edify the carnal flesh....As Christians we are commanded to GROW.....This is not license to sin! Which is what Paul is speaking about......
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40
"But to him that WORKETH NOT, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5
“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSITIFIED” (Galatians 2:16)
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and ALL OUR RIGHTEOUSNESSES ARE AS FILTHY RAGS; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away” Isaiah 64:60
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise." Ephesians 1:13
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30
You were born once physically.....You are born once spiritually..."unborning oneself" makes no sense!....Read 1 Corinthians....These were some very sinful people, but they were called 'babes in Christ"(one's that are NOT growing in Christ)......
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:5
And yes the Holy Spirit grieves when a Christian sins cause he should know better!!! You were sealed! Seals cannot be broken! For anyone to say that the Holy Spirit will unseal a Christian who doesn't live by righteousness calls God a liar!
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" -Romans 6:1
The "bearing of bad fruit", is because of man's willingness to edify the carnal flesh....As Christians we are commanded to GROW.....This is not license to sin! Which is what Paul is speaking about......
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40
"But to him that WORKETH NOT, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5
“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSITIFIED” (Galatians 2:16)
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and ALL OUR RIGHTEOUSNESSES ARE AS FILTHY RAGS; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away” Isaiah 64:60
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise." Ephesians 1:13
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30
You were born once physically.....You are born once spiritually..."unborning oneself" makes no sense!....Read 1 Corinthians....These were some very sinful people, but they were called 'babes in Christ"(one's that are NOT growing in Christ)......
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:5
And yes the Holy Spirit grieves when a Christian sins cause he should know better!!! You were sealed! Seals cannot be broken! For anyone to say that the Holy Spirit will unseal a Christian who doesn't live by righteousness calls God a liar!
O
This thread is about when eternal life is receive not whether or not eternal security is biblical. However you made some pretty wild statements.
#1 Of course seals can be broken, why would anyone think other wise.
#2 It is not calling God a liar to say he will (As you put it )unseal a christian living in sin. That is exactly what God says He will do if a Christian continues in sin.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou shall also be cut off.
Now if you claim you are a Christian yet living in sin then you are a liar and not only a liar but do not even know what the truth is.
1st John 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not know the truth.
1st John 2:4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Now as far as the subject of this topic you receive eternal life after you die as your reward for persevering.
Matthew 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Mark 13:13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Revelation 2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations.
#1 Of course seals can be broken, why would anyone think other wise.
#2 It is not calling God a liar to say he will (As you put it )unseal a christian living in sin. That is exactly what God says He will do if a Christian continues in sin.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou shall also be cut off.
Now if you claim you are a Christian yet living in sin then you are a liar and not only a liar but do not even know what the truth is.
1st John 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not know the truth.
1st John 2:4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Now as far as the subject of this topic you receive eternal life after you die as your reward for persevering.
Matthew 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Mark 13:13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Revelation 2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations.
The seal of the Spirit is God's mark of ownership upon us. This seal is not removed or broken easily, but I wouldn't say it is impossible, we shouldn't tempt God.
Even genuine christians who give their heart to Christ yet fall into sin for a time, can come back and be restored, they don't lose their seal, it is the Holy Spirit who has eventually convicted and restored them to faith.
PS. Romans 11:22, does not speak about a christian living in sin but total apostasy from the faith, it is about unbelief:
Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.
Even genuine christians who give their heart to Christ yet fall into sin for a time, can come back and be restored, they don't lose their seal, it is the Holy Spirit who has eventually convicted and restored them to faith.
PS. Romans 11:22, does not speak about a christian living in sin but total apostasy from the faith, it is about unbelief:
Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.
O
I agree to a point, Romans 11:22 is not talking about just sinning but leaving God to go back into a lifestyle of sin, it is as you said talking about apostasy, but i do not know if it is about unbelief. I ''believed'' in Jesus before I was saved, and I believe someone can turn from their salvation and still have a ''belief'' in God. However for the most part I agree with your post (s)
Well there's backsliding then there is apostazing (or s?) -ing. A person can go into a " lifestyle of sin" without leaving God, or God leaving them , I should say. Although if that lifestyle of sin leads to a complete loss of faith, that's another story.
And continuing in God's goodness, doesn't that mean continuing in the faith? We stay in God's favor by keeping the faith. Because Jews were broken off because of unbelief, Paul is warning the Gentiles not to be too haughty, because they too could be broken off because of unbelief.
And yes by belief I mean , "believing with all your heart", not a mental acceptance of ideas.
And continuing in God's goodness, doesn't that mean continuing in the faith? We stay in God's favor by keeping the faith. Because Jews were broken off because of unbelief, Paul is warning the Gentiles not to be too haughty, because they too could be broken off because of unbelief.
And yes by belief I mean , "believing with all your heart", not a mental acceptance of ideas.
O
The correct answer is not up there. The person that created this poll is obviously confused as to what the correct teaching of scripture is and therefore created a poll to push his own beliefs. The correct answer is after endure until the end keeping the faith while being obedient to God's word. It is not when we first believe on Christ, and is is not by doing ''good works'' like I said the creator of this poll is obviously confused himself.
This is the order of ''salvation.
#1 Belief.
#2 Repentance.
#3 Regeneration.
#4 Confession.
#5 Sanctification.
#6 Overcoming (Enduring until the end).
#7 Salvation from the wrath at death or rapture.
This is the order of ''salvation.
#1 Belief.
#2 Repentance.
#3 Regeneration.
#4 Confession.
#5 Sanctification.
#6 Overcoming (Enduring until the end).
#7 Salvation from the wrath at death or rapture.
Onwings there is no correct "order" of salvation.
Belief and repentance and regeneration may not be in that order, or confession. The bible says we are (present tense) sanctified, and we have already overcome based on Christ's merits not our own. There are different meanings for the word sanctification, and thanks to Christ our justification and sanctification are present realities not future attainments.
Belief and repentance and regeneration may not be in that order, or confession. The bible says we are (present tense) sanctified, and we have already overcome based on Christ's merits not our own. There are different meanings for the word sanctification, and thanks to Christ our justification and sanctification are present realities not future attainments.
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