Getting paid
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1 Corinthians speaks of being paid to preach the gospel. Paul says that he does not make use of this "right", but he clearly states that it IS a right for an "apostle" who preaches the gospel to be financially supported.
1 Cor 9:
3 This is my defense to those who would examine me. 4 Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife,[a] as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?
8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10 Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?
Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.
1 Cor 9:
3 This is my defense to those who would examine me. 4 Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife,[a] as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?
8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10 Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?
Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.
Ephesians 5:5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Matthew 6:19[ Treasures in Heaven ] “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter.25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
Matthew 6:19[ Treasures in Heaven ] “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter.25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
Though, making a living cannot be considered greed, can it? It's a necessity.
(Being a pastor IS work. It's a lot of work... it's a 24/7 job, and often thankless and unappreciated. Most people don't realize how much goes into it. I've known pastors who held full time jobs as well as full time pastorate positions, and they suffer burnout and exhaustion very quickly.)
(Being a pastor IS work. It's a lot of work... it's a 24/7 job, and often thankless and unappreciated. Most people don't realize how much goes into it. I've known pastors who held full time jobs as well as full time pastorate positions, and they suffer burnout and exhaustion very quickly.)
do you want your pastor to work for God full time? do you want your pastor to be available to the congregation full time? this is why its a good idea to pay them, so they can be fully dedicated to serving God and the congregation.
a pastor does more than show up for an hour on sunday morning. the congregation in recongnition of their service should try to compensate them for being on call 7 days a week 24 hours a day
duewell
mark 4 v 11-13
a pastor does more than show up for an hour on sunday morning. the congregation in recongnition of their service should try to compensate them for being on call 7 days a week 24 hours a day
duewell
mark 4 v 11-13
We are living in sin all the time. When we get out of bed to go to work to make a living is a sin, because we serving Mammon. And we can't serve both God and it. That is why we must ask God for forgiveness constantly because we are not strong as Elijah or John. They had the strength to give up their life for God and away from the comforts of this world. The comfort of this world causing us to be selfish by ignoring the fact that their is others that are in need that wishes that they could have the things that we has thrown away, but we sitting down and enjoying our comforts, while others are suffering. What kind of person can do that? But we still condemn others while we are standing on egg shell ourselves. That is why Jesus had told the poor not to worry, for there's a kingdom that they can look forward to that will help them.
Matthew 5:3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matthew 26:41“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Matthew 18:33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’
Matthew 23:23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice,mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Matthew 20:31The crowd rebuked them and told them to be quiet, but they shouted all the louder, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on us!”
Mark 5:19Jesus did not let him, but said, “Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you.”
Matthew 5:3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matthew 26:41“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Matthew 18:33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’
Matthew 23:23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice,mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Matthew 20:31The crowd rebuked them and told them to be quiet, but they shouted all the louder, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on us!”
Mark 5:19Jesus did not let him, but said, “Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you.”
Technically speaking the pastorate is not a job. The pastorate is a vocation, a calling from God. Yes pastors should be paid. They are worthy of a double portion, tamped down and running over.
That said the good pastors would pastor if they had to do it without any salary. Those who pastor based on the salary or the book and tape revenues are not worth a dime to God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
That said the good pastors would pastor if they had to do it without any salary. Those who pastor based on the salary or the book and tape revenues are not worth a dime to God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I just read that verse in 1 Cor. 9 last night and wrote it down in the back of my book as a reference. I see Grace has beaten me to it, but it is all good!
I guess those who think pastors shouldn't be paid must believe they and their families live on air, and are warmed by angels when they sleep on the street?
It is a calling, but God's people need to support those who are doing the Lord's work, whether pastors or missionaries.
I guess those who think pastors shouldn't be paid must believe they and their families live on air, and are warmed by angels when they sleep on the street?
It is a calling, but God's people need to support those who are doing the Lord's work, whether pastors or missionaries.
I think off and on a pastor should get out and rub shoulders in a work-a-day environment.
Many have gone from college to seminary and then straight into full time ministry without ever experiencing the unique pressure working alongside the unregenerate, as well as the day to day mundane grind. I think it would enhance their insight into people and increase their empathy...not just a cock of the head as they quietly assure saying, ''I understand''.
Many have gone from college to seminary and then straight into full time ministry without ever experiencing the unique pressure working alongside the unregenerate, as well as the day to day mundane grind. I think it would enhance their insight into people and increase their empathy...not just a cock of the head as they quietly assure saying, ''I understand''.
1 Corinthians 9:18What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.
2 Corinthians 11:7Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge?
Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
1 Corinthians 9:17If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me.
Matthew 7:21[ True and False Disciples ] “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
Matthew 7:15[ True and False Prophets ] “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
2 Corinthians 11:7Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge?
Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
1 Corinthians 9:17If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me.
Matthew 7:21[ True and False Disciples ] “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
Matthew 7:15[ True and False Prophets ] “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
I guess it takes great faith to leave everything in God's hands like Elijah and John had done.
Matt 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?
1 Kings 17:4
You will drink from the brook, and I have directed the ravens to supply you with food there.”
Matthew 17:24[ The Temple Tax ] After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma temple tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”
Matthew 17:27“But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”
Matthew 22:21“Caesar’s,” they replied. Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
John 16:15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.
Matt 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?
1 Kings 17:4
You will drink from the brook, and I have directed the ravens to supply you with food there.”
Matthew 17:24[ The Temple Tax ] After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma temple tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”
Matthew 17:27“But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”
Matthew 22:21“Caesar’s,” they replied. Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
John 16:15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.
Tithe really begins at the original passover. God spared Israel's first born. Then God took the Levites as substitute for their firstborns to be holy to Him because God said they owed Him. The Tithe was to support God's new class of holy men. Before you say that is O.T., Jesus is our passover lamb in the N.T. We owe God just like the Israelites did. Shouldn't it go to those who labor as holy men?
Genesis 14:20And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
Genesis 28:22and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.”
Romans 6:23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Matthew 17:26“From others,” Peter answered. “Then the children are exempt,” Jesus said to him.
Genesis 28:22and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.”
Romans 6:23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Matthew 17:26“From others,” Peter answered. “Then the children are exempt,” Jesus said to him.
This very passage indicates that preachers have a "right" to make a living preaching the gospel, does it not? Paul was in a financial position not to need to take money, which was wonderful - and unique. But he acknowledges here and in ALL of chapter 9 that it is not wrong for a preacher to be cared for financially. This was obviously a point of contention for the Corintians, and he clearly states that those who proclaim the gospel (I assume full-time) should get their living by the gospel. (1 Cor 9:14)
Love of money IS evil, but your view seems to be extreme. Even Jesus relied on friends and followers to provide him with food and lodging. That is how God provided for him. Who is to say that preachers are not provided for in the same way by their congregations?
Love of money IS evil, but your view seems to be extreme. Even Jesus relied on friends and followers to provide him with food and lodging. That is how God provided for him. Who is to say that preachers are not provided for in the same way by their congregations?
Jesus was provided for His daily needs. But if a pastor want his/her inheritance now and doesn't want to receive their reward later, then they should go ahead and receive it; But they better make sure that they have enough oil in their lamps for the wedding.
Matthew 6:34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Matthew 25:1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
Matthew 6:19
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Hebrews 11:26He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.
Revelation 11:18The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small— and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
Matthew 6:34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Matthew 25:1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
Matthew 6:19
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Hebrews 11:26He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.
Revelation 11:18The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small— and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
Speaking as someone who just graduated from Seminary last May, 20 years after my undergrad degree, who worked as a teacher, while raising a family of 4 children, you have really caricatured the students that I have met in Seminary.
The true picture is usually a bivocational pastor, literally all work in churches or church plants, plus work regular jobs to support themselves and usually have small children. Of course, the men are lucky enough to have their wives to support them. In fact, at the graduation tea, the night before, the men were literally crying about how they would not have made it without their wives, and I believe it. I only know of one student who went from college to Seminary, and his father and mother were both profs in the Seminary, and this man will go on to do his Ph.D and become an amazing theologian, rather than a pastor, is my thought.
A woman friend of mine maintained her job across the country, flying there for 2 weeks out of 4 to work, along with her ministry to youth while completing her degree with only 2 weeks of school a month. She even got the Greek award for top student. She was just brilliant, I confess, I was not in her category at all!
The true picture is usually a bivocational pastor, literally all work in churches or church plants, plus work regular jobs to support themselves and usually have small children. Of course, the men are lucky enough to have their wives to support them. In fact, at the graduation tea, the night before, the men were literally crying about how they would not have made it without their wives, and I believe it. I only know of one student who went from college to Seminary, and his father and mother were both profs in the Seminary, and this man will go on to do his Ph.D and become an amazing theologian, rather than a pastor, is my thought.
A woman friend of mine maintained her job across the country, flying there for 2 weeks out of 4 to work, along with her ministry to youth while completing her degree with only 2 weeks of school a month. She even got the Greek award for top student. She was just brilliant, I confess, I was not in her category at all!
When we are profiting from someone, we are using that person as a prostitute and the other is the pimp. The purpose of a pastor is to help others from falling into their graves, but the pastors are helping themselves as the Pharisees had done.
Mark 12:40They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”
Mark 12:40They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”