Revelation chapter 12 Bible study.

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VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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#21
Well it looks like I have squeezed about all the life out of this 8+ year old laptop. I have had lots of lockups and 4 blue screens in the last couple days. I ordered a new one, and it should be here in about a week. I will catch up on my posts then.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#22
[h=3]Revelation 12:6 (KJV)[/h]
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.



[h=3]Revelation 12:14 (KJV)[/h]
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.



This verse appears twice in the same chapter, why do you think it appears twice?
 

VCO

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#23
Revelation 12:6 (KJV)


[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.



Revelation 12:14 (KJV)


[SUP]14 [/SUP]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.



This verse appears twice in the same chapter, why do you think it appears twice?
That is a reference to the 144,000 Jews who flee to a hiding place for safety, when the Anti-christ starts beheading everyone who refuses to bow to him as god.


Rev. 12:6 The present Church Age is passed over between verses 5 and 6. In the middle of the Tribulation, a portion of the nation of Israel flees to a secret place of refuge in the wilderness (some think it is Petra). These people remain in hiding for three and one half years.

Rev. 12:14 The faithful Jewish remnant is given two wings of a great eagle, enabling it to escape quickly to its wilderness hideout. (Some have conjectured that these wings speak of a great Air Force.) There the remnant is cared for and protected from the serpent's attacks for three and one half years (a time, times, and half a time).

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.
 

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Therapon

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#24
Is he saying that there is a future casting out of the devil out of heaven ?
Satan being cast out of heaven is NOT an event in our future. That happened at the time of the Cross. Here is the Scripture to prove it . . .

Luke 10:18 “And He said to them, I saw Satan falling out of Heaven as lightning!”

John 12:31 “Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out.”
 

VCO

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#25
Prophecies like this, are going to be fulfilled in the future and when GOD is all done, it will fit the Scpritures perfectly. Trying to look through all the symbolism and say for certain, "this is what it all means for sure, and it will happen this way", is kind of like sitting on a big limb in fog so thick you cannot see the tree trunk, sawing the limb off. If you are on the wrong side, you will fall fast.

Do I think it is really is going to be Petra? Making an educated guess, I would say NO. Because everyone knows about Petra. With the threat of a nuclear holocaust from Iran; I think Israel is smart enough to have more than one secret underground city to evacuate people to. When I was stationed in Turkey, in the US Air Force, in 1969; I toured an ancient underground hidden city some three hundred feet deep with numerous levels or floors, near Gorme, Turkey. It was totally hidden and just looked like yet another hill in the landscape. The sandstone rock in the mid-east is VERY EASY to carve, as the picture of the temple at Petra shows. So the concept of modern day large hidden underground cities is VERY PLAUSABLE. And I agree with the commentary above, that the wings of a great eagle, probably is a reference to the Israeli Air Force, that will be used to quickly move the 144,000 Jews to one of those secret hidden cities. Do you have doubts that could be true? Then check out this Israeli Air Force shoulder patch:
 

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Therapon

Guest
#26
Prophecies like this, are going to be fulfilled in the future and when GOD is all done, it will fit the Scpritures perfectly.
When Jesus directly states when a certain event happened, that is when it happened . . .

Luke 10:18 “And He said to them, I saw Satan falling out of Heaven as lightning!”

John 12:31 “Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out.”
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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#27
HERE is a bunch of Israeli Air Force Squadron shoulder patches and Eagle Wings are on most of them: ISRAEL AIR FORCE
 

VCO

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#28
When Jesus directly states when a certain event happened, that is when it happened . . .

Luke 10:18 “And He said to them, I saw Satan falling out of Heaven as lightning!”

John 12:31 “Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out.”

And I personally believe Satan originally fell Day one of Creation, but this is talking about Satan's efforts to STOP Christ from Coming back at the Second Coming. Apparently, during one of his periodic times to accuse believers, Satan starts a war in heaven. AND is cast down YET AGAIN.

12:8-9. The outcome of the war was that Satan was hurled to the earth, and his character was clearly revealed in the various titles ascribed to him: the great dragon... that ancient serpent... the devil or Satan. With him went the fallen angels of the demon world.

While the concept of Satan in heaven is difficult to comprehend, it is clear that he is now the accuser of saints (cf. Job 1:6; Rev. 12:10). Though Satan was defeated at the first coming of Christ (John 16:11), his execution was delayed and is in stages. Here (Rev. 12:8-9) he will be cast out of heaven in the middle of the Tribulation. Later he will be bound for the duration of the millennial kingdom (20:1-3). The devil will finally be thrown into the lake of burning sulfur (20:10) where the world ruler (Antichrist) and the false prophet will have been cast a thousand years earlier.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.
And there arose war in heaven, Michael and his angels going forth to war with the dragon. And the dragon warred and his angels, and they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, the one called (the) Devil, and the Satan, he that deceiveth the whole (inhabited) world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels with him were cast down.
We have here a startling revelation: "And there arose war in heaven." The United Nations could not do anything about this war any more than they could about any other war that has taken place since they came into existence. It is difficult to imagine that there is war in heaven, but Satan still has access to heaven and, as long as he does, there will be this problem.

We are told in the Book of Job that Satan came with the sons of God to appear before God (see Job 1-2). He apparently had as much right there as they did. He had been created the highest creation. We also read in Zechariah 3:1-2: "And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, the Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?" Satan has access to God, and he is able to carry on a communication with God. Luke 22:31 tells us: "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat." I do not think that Satan sent a Western Union telegram to God or that he telephoned Him. He was able to come into the presence of God, and he requested that he might test this man Simon Peter -- and he was granted that permission.

"Michael" is the archangel. We are told this in the Book of Jude: "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee" (Jude 1:9). Evidently there are other archangels, but Michael has a peculiar ministry with the nation Israel. Daniel 10:13 tells us: "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia." Michael is "one of the chief princes." Although there are probably other archangels, Michael and Gabriel are the only ones whose names are given in Scripture. Again in Daniel we read: "But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince" (Dan. 10:21).

"Michael your prince" -- since the Lord is talking to Daniel, this refers to Daniel's people, the nation Israel. This is made clear in Daniel 12:1: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." At that time, we are told, there will be a time of trouble, the Great Tribulation. Michael will again step out and drive Satan out of heaven, because he happens to be the prince who watches over the nation Israel. This is a tremendous thing, and it beggars description.
There will be a fierce struggle, a war. Satan is not going to retire easily, but Michael and his angels will prevail, and Satan and his angels will be thrown out of heaven. The Lord Jesus referred to this in Luke 10:18, "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#29
THE CHURCH GOES THROUGH THE TRIBULATION MADE EASY , PLEASE THE VIDEO A MINUTE TO LOAD THANKS IT IS WORTH THE WAITH

[video=youtube;A5t3oN6byBk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A5t3oN6byBk[/video]
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#30
DEAR VCO Could tell me what are two funtions of the blood of Jesus for the chuch ? thanks
 
Oct 17, 2013
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#31
Ah the false prophet doth speak!more confusion than when U started? rev 18/4...
 
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#32
P.S. The left behind authors will get their dues. they have done more to confuse christians than satan ever could!the actual meaning of false prophet. the church runs a close 2nd.
 
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#33
a true preacher cannot teach from atop a mountain of treasure.a learned man of God will teach from among Gods children not above. author...who cares?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#34
And I personally believe Satan originally fell Day one of Creation, but this is talking about Satan's efforts to STOP Christ from Coming back at the Second Coming. Apparently, during one of his periodic times to accuse believers, Satan starts a war in heaven. AND is cast down YET AGAIN.
t t t

John 8:44 (ASV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

It seems to be one of GOD's most popular expressions to describe what He means by "in the Beginning". If there was a planning stage prior to that; HOW LONG do you the think it took an ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING GOD to do the planning. My guess is two seconds or less.

Now how does Satan become a muderer PRIOR to mortal man being created?

1 John 3:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


Now do you suppose Satan (Lucifer) hated his fellow angels who refused to join his rebellion against GOD?
And how about hating GOD, does that too count as being a murderer?
Now do you suppose that fixes the timing of Satan's rebellion,
AT " the foundation of the world
"?

IF SO, Satan went for one dickens of a ride, as GOD created the world around him.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#35
Prophecies like this, are going to be fulfilled in the future and when GOD is all done, it will fit the Scpritures perfectly. Trying to look through all the symbolism and say for certain, "this is what it all means for sure, and it will happen this way", is kind of like sitting on a big limb in fog so thick you cannot see the tree trunk, sawing the limb off. If you are on the wrong side, you will fall fast.

Do I think it is really is going to be Petra? Making an educated guess, I would say NO. Because everyone knows about Petra. With the threat of a nuclear holocaust from Iran; I think Israel is smart enough to have more than one secret underground city to evacuate people to. When I was stationed in Turkey, in the US Air Force, in 1969; I toured an ancient underground hidden city some three hundred feet deep with numerous levels or floors, near Gorme, Turkey. It was totally hidden and just looked like yet another hill in the landscape. The sandstone rock in the mid-east is VERY EASY to carve, as the picture of the temple at Petra shows. So the concept of modern day large hidden underground cities is VERY PLAUSABLE. And I agree with the commentary above, that the wings of a great eagle, probably is a reference to the Israeli Air Force, that will be used to quickly move the 144,000 Jews to one of those secret hidden cities. Do you have doubts that could be true? Then check out this Israeli Air Force shoulder patch:
That patch on my original post was a israeli Air Force Squadron Patch. Apparently an English speaking squadron. I do know their are quite a few American Jews who enlisted in the Israeli Military. Here is the shoulder patch for the Israeli Air Force in general, plus the Pilot Wings that are sown on the front of the Uniform:

Israeli Air Force official.jpg

Israeli Pilot wings.jpg
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#36
a true preacher cannot teach from atop a mountain of treasure.a learned man of God will teach from among Gods children not above. author...who cares?
The sermon on the mount, was from a naturally form amphitheater. THEREFORE, Jesus stood at the bottom, while the crowd sat on the curved mountain side so that his voice would carry up to them. I guess those artists who drew the pictures for our Sunday School books, did not understand that concept.
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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#37
DEAR VCO Could tell me what are two functions of the blood of Jesus for the chuch ? thanks
1. The Blood fulfilled the requirement of a spotless (sinless) sacrifice for our sins, a perfect sacrifice ONCE for ALL TIME. Hence the Church has a Better Covenant. Mat. 5:17, Rom. 3:25, 1 John 4:29, Heb. 9:22

2. The Blood not only paid for and forgave our sins, it ALSO cleanses us, not just covered the sins, so that we are seen as holy, because of HIS HOLINESS. Rev. 1:5, 1 Pet. 1:2, Heb. 10:29, Eph. 5:27
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
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#38
THE CHURCH GOES THROUGH THE TRIBULATION MADE EASY , PLEASE THE VIDEO A MINUTE TO LOAD THANKS IT IS WORTH THE WAITH
Oh, you are welcome to go through the Tribulation, if you so choose; but WE will be spared that Hour of Trial that will come upon the WHOLE Earth. Sorry, but when our Bridegroom has the Archangel SHOUT and call us out, just before the Great Tribulation begin; we are leaving with or without you.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#39
1. The Blood fulfilled the requirement of a spotless (sinless) sacrifice for our sins, a perfect sacrifice ONCE for ALL TIME. Hence the Church has a Better Covenant. Mat. 5:17, Rom. 3:25, 1 John 4:29, Heb. 9:22

2. The Blood not only paid for and forgave our sins, it ALSO cleanses us, not just covered the sins, so that we are seen as holy, because of HIS HOLINESS. Rev. 1:5, 1 Pet. 1:2, Heb. 10:29, Eph. 5:27
1. The blood of Christ hath such a divine power to save, that nothing but it can ever save the soul. If some foolish Israelite had despised the command of God, and had said, "I will sprinkle something else upon the doorposts," or, "I will adorn the lintel with jewels of gold and silver," he must have perished; nothing could save his household but the sprinkled blood. And now let us all remember, that "other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, Jesus Christ," for "there is none other name given among men whereby we must be saved." My works, my prayers, my tears, cannot save me; the blood, the blood alone, has power to redeem. Sacraments, however well they may be attended to, cannot save me. Nothing but thy blood, O Jesus, can redeem me from the guilt of sin. Though I should give rivers of oil, and ten thousand of the fat of fed beasts; yea, though I should give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul, all would be useless. Nothing but the blood of Jesus has in it the slightest saving-power.
 
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#40
Another of purpose of the blood during the tribulation

[h=3]Exodus 12[/h]King James Version (KJV)

12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.
12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.