Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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Jan 21, 2013
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Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God .
 
Jul 26, 2013
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#4
I do. But do you understand them? You obviously see yourself saved so tell me, are you godly or ungodly?
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#5
I do. But do you understand them? You obviously see yourself saved so tell me, are you godly or ungodly?
You evaded my points made in the OP. Did you understand them ? Please rearse them with me. Thanks !
 
S

StandStrong

Guest
#6
i think i missed the point you were trying to lay out for us would you mind reiterating or breaking it down for me so that i may see your point plainly?
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#7
Justification by Faith

Justification by Faith is in two senses, First and foremost Its Justification by the Faith / Faithfulness of Jesus Christ. For its by this Faith alone how The elect obtain Justification before God, by the Blood and obedience of Jesus Christ, for all whom He died in their place and stead..

Rom 5:9,18-19

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Note, being Now Justified by His blood, not our Faith + His blood, thats a false Gospel, but by His blood..to whom is this True of ? Not only the roman believers, but to all the election of grace of all time..Thats who Justified by His blood..

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men[of all time] to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men [of all time] unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again no mention of our Faith as a securing means of Justification unto Life or being made righteous, but solely the obedience and righteousness of One Jesus Christ..

This constitutes the Faith / faithfulness of Jesus Christ..Therefore its written The Faith of Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16,20

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Faithfulness Jesus christ Loved the elect and gave himself for them..


Then in a secondary sense and premised on the First and foremost, the elect sinner is Justified consciously, by the regenerating work of the Holy Ghost, because of their previous justification by the work of Christ, they now have that revealed to them by God the Holy Ghost through the Gospel..but be careful not to confuse the receiving experientially the status of Justification before God [by the work of Christ] with the experiential aspect of conscience Justification by the work of the Holy Ghost upon and in the already Justified before God sinner.. 1 Cor 6:11

11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now, though the work of the Holy Ghost is extremely Important and needed for the enjoyment of the work of Christ in the elects behalf, His blessed work should never be on the same level or above the Justifying work of the Son of God upon the cross..to do so leads to heresy and anti Christ teaching.

For it was not the Work of the Holy Ghost to die in the place of elect sinners for 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

This scripture teaches Christ died for our [the elect] sins, but not a word about the Holy Ghost dying for the sins of the elect.

Isa 53:6

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him [Jesus Christ] the iniquity of us all.

Here, the iniquities of the elect were laid upon him [Jesus Christ] and not the Holy Ghost..

Rom 5: 9 declares Having been Justified [declared righteous] by the blood of Jesus Christ, but not a word about being Justified by the work of the Holy Ghost blood..

Finally Jesus states that the Holy Ghost will not speak of Himself [ draw attention to Himself] but should Glorify Him..Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [My accomplishment], and shall shew it unto you.

He shall receive of the finished accomplished Justification of Gods elect through Jesus Christ and on their behalf, and shew [ reveal] it to them..


To confuse or mix the Two types of Justification, Legal and experiential[conscious] is fatal..and will not go unpunished..and only those not taught by our Covenant God is at peril. 2 .
 
Jan 21, 2013
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i think i missed the point you were trying to lay out for us would you mind reiterating or breaking it down for me so that i may see your point plainly?
No I will not break anything down, that is what you have a mind for.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#9
[SUP]
1 Peter 3

18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins
, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
 
S

StandStrong

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#10
so basically you are saying that you prove your faith by your works? am i understanding you right?
 
S

StandStrong

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#11
No I will not break anything down, that is what you have a mind for.
that is true that is why i have a mind however does the Word not say that those who are mature in the faith are to reach out to those who are weak in the faith?

however that is alright you do not have to explain where you are going with this
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#12
Rom 5:1


Rom 5 : 1

Being Justified by Faith !

What does this mean ? For many deceivers are out in the world and have so misapplied this verse to make it say something that it really does not say or mean, and that is that one is saved or Justified before God because of their Faith, meaning their act of believing, that their act of believing is the causative reason of their Justification before God ! Let me say without hesitation that this teaching is Antichrist in that its against the True basis of Justification, and that namely is the Lord Jesus Christ..against His accomplishment on the cross..Its the blood of Jesus christ and the grace of God that Justifies sinners, and i will prove this from scriptures. Also keep in mind, that Faith is a noun not a verb as in something we do, but its a substance.

Rom 5:1

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Let me start off by saying, what Paul does not mean here, and that is, Paul is not teaching that one is Justified [before God] by or because of their act of Faith, since #1, Faith is a noun in this verse..and if we use the verb believing, then we are saying that God Justified because of something I did, which was believe..Thats works..

And even more so, Paul cannot contradict his own teaching in other portions of Gods word as to the True source of Justification before God! First of all Paul teaches that the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus Christ Rom 5 : 9 a

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Paul clearly teaches that Justification is by the blood of Jesus Christ 9
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#13
So Paul declares that the elect having been Justified by Christ blood, shall be delivered from the wrath to come..

2ndly, Paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Christ] Justification comes upon all men, that is, all men in Him at the time of His righteous act..observe Rom 5:18b

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This reads in exact contrast with the results of the one who made offence [ Adam] resulting in Gods condemnation and Judgment..for each of the heads brought about a Divine Judicial verdict on all those whom they represented..By the righteousness or righteous act of Jesus Christ, meaning His death, the free gift of Justification of life came upon [ not was offered or made available] but came upon all men [ in Christ at the time , his seed, as Adam had a seed in him] unto Justification of life..

The Justification unto life by the right act of one, called down the free Gift of Justification of life..

Thats why Paul wrote earlier in Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The redemption that is in Christ Jesus, again pointing to His redeeming blood and or death..

So we know Paul did not mean in Rom 5:1 that the elect are Justified by their act of believing or Faith, because it again contradicts Paul's overall teaching of this subject, and would make void the accomplishment of the redeeming death and blood of Jesus christ..and thats what satan and his messengers desire to do, to take the crown from Jesus head, and place it upon the head of man 11
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#14
that is true that is why i have a mind however does the Word not say that those who are mature in the faith are to reach out to those who are weak in the faith?

however that is alright you do not have to explain where you are going with this
Don't take it the wrong way. He probably isn't capable of explaining it to you in a simple, straightforward manner.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#15
Paul doesn't get into the 'elect' til chap 8. You inserted elect into chap 4. God justifies the ungodly simultaneously with faith in the saving work of Christ.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#16
[SUP]
Isaiah 26
8 [/SUP]Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O Lord, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to the remembrance of thee.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the Lord.


All of us were born in sins and shewed favour but become godly if we repent and accept the Lord
 
Jan 21, 2013
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So, so far in exposing the False teaching that the elect are saved or Justified because of their act of Faith or believing..we see that contradicts other clear teaching of paul that #1, the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus christ Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

That is when He bore their sins as prophesied Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [shed His blood]

2ndly we find that paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Jesus christ] Justification came upon all men..not offered, not made available, but Sovereignly came upon them..Rom 5:18


18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Now show me in this verse where it says that Justification of life came upon all men because they had faith ?

Thirdly, Paul teaches in vs 19 of Romans 5:19 that by the obedience of one, many shall be made righteous ..

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now where does it say that by their faith shall many be made righteous ? Paul says by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous..Now who is that one ?12
 
Sep 8, 2012
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#18
People say their faith is their own.
They claim it because they were told to when they made a decision for Christ. (As if He didn't choose them first)
.....(Whatever kind of faith this is, I don't know)
- Faith in one's own faith?
- - Faith in one's own decision to decide to have faith?
- - - Faith to yield grace. That's the logical point they believe. - (They have faith in the fact they receive grace by their own remedy of faith)
- - - - Sounds Pelagian to me.
 
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Jun 30, 2011
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#20
1st timothy 5:21
21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.

I saw a site that tried to say that God loved angels like men - i thought it was kind of funny, but they were serious.