If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it mean?

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#1
#1
If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it mean?

19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
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How do you interpret John 20:23?
Is it still for today?
Is it something limited to the apostles?

If it's still for today, how does one give or receive it?
If it's still for today give an example how how it would be done..Ie create a hypothetical situation.
 
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Bryancampbell

Guest
#2
#2
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

Well a believer without the Spirit is evidence he is not saved, or is he? For the apostles have been given power to even give the Holy Spirit to people, by God through the laying of hands.

"It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. There were in all about twelve men." - Acts 19:1-7 NASB

If Paul can lay hands for someone to receive the gift. Would he even have the power to take it away? The Holy Spirit of the living God is also a seal and sign of redemption of the believer.

So an apostle of Jesus not only is the thumb to all five offices, but are the Lord's 'sent' witnesses of the Lord Himself. Anyone who rejects their teaching, rejects God.

In the letter to the church in Corinth, he wrote teachings, exhortations, and corrections. And he said this after talking about spiritual gifts, submission, and a particular orderly instruction for organized church office(s), (Prophet, Tongues, etc).

If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. - 1 Corinthians 14:37-38 NASB


They have more authority than any believer. They are the first fruits, what they say is the closest to anything anyone would have taught back then about the Lord. Ordained and taught directly from Him. What they say in scripture became scripture.

I don't think we have this much authentic authority. If we don't forgive the Father won't forgive.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#3
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#3
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

1still_waters said:
How do you interpret John 20:23?
Is it still for today?
Is it something limited to the apostles?

If it's still for today, how does one give or receive it?
If it's still for today give an example how how it would be done..Ie create a hypothetical situation.
Click to expand...
interesting OP




...

but this is cooler:

If you want to hear from God, read the Bible.
If you want to hear from God audibly, read the Bible out loud.

;)

but this ROCKS:

 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#4
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#4
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

This is John's account of the great commission. When you combine all the accounts of this event and parallel all the statements made, the forgiveness of sin seems to be linked to their preaching of the gospel and baptism. Those who were baptized received forgiveness of sin. Those who we not baptized, their sins were not forgiven.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#5
#5
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

Also wanted to add,

I know that we will judge angels, but the apostles themselves will sit on twelve thrones and judge the 12 tribes of Israel. To me that's still showing how different our calling is to them. I think judging the entire twelve tribes is much more than angels, but I could be wrong. Because we are talking about humans, sinful, freshly beings who from the beginning was made in the image of God. Whereas angels are heavenly spirits or entities. They are anointed with a greater authority than an average believer. We cannot write scripture, neither lay hands for people to receive the baptism of the Spirit, neither judge humans.

And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. - Matthew 19:28 NASB

I think Jesus wanted of course the apostles to forgive personal sin, but I think when it comes to judging the word, they had to anointing right the not forgive of they wished.

I could be wrong in all of this, some of it, or whatnot. But this is my 2¢ I guess..
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#6
#6
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

Bryancampbell said:
Well a believer without the Spirit is evidence he is not saved, or is he? For the apostles have been given power to even give the Holy Spirit to people, by God through the laying of hands.

"It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. There were in all about twelve men." - Acts 19:1-7 NASB

If Paul can lay hands for someone to receive the gift. Would he even have the power to take it away? The Holy Spirit of the living God is also a seal and sign of redemption of the believer.

So an apostle of Jesus not only is the thumb to all five offices, but are the Lord's 'sent' witnesses of the Lord Himself. Anyone who rejects their teaching, rejects God.

In the letter to the church in Corinth, he wrote teachings, exhortations, and corrections. And he said this after talking about spiritual gifts, submission, and a particular orderly instruction for organized church office(s), (Prophet, Tongues, etc).

If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. - 1 Corinthians 14:37-38 NASB


They have more authority than any believer. They are the first fruits, what they say is the closest to anything anyone would have taught back then about the Lord. Ordained and taught directly from Him. What they say in scripture became scripture.

I don't think we have this much authentic authority. If we don't forgive the Father won't forgive.
Click to expand...
So basically this ceased with the apostles?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#7
#7
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

Bryancampbell said:
Also wanted to add,

I know that we will judge angels, but the apostles themselves will sit on twelve thrones and judge the 12 tribes of Israel. To me that's still showing how different our calling is to them. I think judging the entire twelve tribes is much more than angels, but I could be wrong. Because we are talking about humans, sinful, freshly beings who from the beginning was made in the image of God. Whereas angels are heavenly spirits or entities. They are anointed with a greater authority than an average believer. We cannot write scripture, neither lay hands for people to receive the baptism of the Spirit, neither judge humans.

And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. - Matthew 19:28 NASB

I think Jesus wanted of course the apostles to forgive personal sin, but I think when it comes to judging the word, they had to anointing right the not forgive of they wished.

I could be wrong in all of this, some of it, or whatnot. But this is my 2¢ I guess..
Click to expand...
Only apostles will judge the 12 tribes, and the apostles were given a greater anointing?:O

Some will accuse you of putting God in a box, and accuse you of saying God is a respecter of persons. :O

You are a brave man.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#8
#8
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

1still_waters said:
So basically this ceased with the apostles?
Click to expand...
The ones who will judge the twelve tribes, yea, unless the Lord gives it to someone.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#9
#9
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

1still_waters said:
Only apostles will judge the 12 tribes, and the apostles were given a greater anointing?:O

Some will accuse you of putting God in a box, and accuse you of saying God is a respecter of persons. :O

You are a brave man.
Click to expand...
I'm not putting God in a box, neither an I exalalting man in a view of favor. The grace given to Paul and the other apostles is to also be called to be an apostle. They could operate in all five fold offices, according to the grace/calling that was given to them. But God does not play favorites, but he doesn't give all people the same calling.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#10
#10
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

Bryancampbell said:
I'm not putting God in a box, neither an I exalalting man in a view of favor. The grace given to Paul and the other apostles is to also be called to be an apostle. They could operate in all five fold offices, according to the grace/calling that was given to them. But God does not play favorites, but he doesn't give all people the same calling.
Click to expand...
played.jpg

...........................
 
L

LT

Guest
#11
#11
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

1still_waters said:
How do you interpret John 20:23?
Is it still for today?
Is it something limited to the apostles?

If it's still for today, how does one give or receive it?
If it's still for today give an example how how it would be done..Ie create a hypothetical situation.
Click to expand...
According to the Bible, only God can forgive sins. Jesus showed that He was God when He forgave people of their sins during His 3.5 year earthly ministry. The cross multiplied forgiveness in a way we may never fully understand until we see our Lord face to face.
If we are in Christ, then we are in the power of forgiveness. If His Spirit is within us, then the power to forgive is within us.

God helps us to forgive those who have wronged us, by the work of the Holy Spirit. God never asks us to do something that He hasn't already done Himself. Therefore, when the Holy Spirit helps us to forgive a person, it is because God has already forgiven them.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#12
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#12
Re: If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; John 20:23 -What does it m

There seems to be a lot of theology that is being made of this verse, usually a scripture is more to one point than this. It seems to me that it is simply saying that when you receive the Holy Spirit, you receive the Lord's power. We can even funnel the huge power the Lord has to forgive sins.

Because the Lord says that when we repent, He will forgive any sin but blasphemy, I am simply not understanding the part where scripture says "if you retain the sins of any, they are retained".

If I am right in this interpretation, it means that when we die to self and take on the HS, what a huge responsibility!
 
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