Arnold Murray. Heretic? False teacher? Figure it out together here. EDUCATE ME!

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1still_waters

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#1
arnold_murray.jpg

I hear a lot of chirping about Arnold Murray of Shepherds Chapel.
Some accuse him of being a heretic.
Others say he's a false teacher.

Frankly I haven't had the patience to wade through the endless pages and websites dedicated to exposing him.
Most explanations seem tedious and just not worth investing my time in.
To me, if someone is just an obscenely false teacher or heretic, there should be succinct smoking gun source content you can point to, without the need to give us 20 pages of mental gymnastics. If there is a "there" there, then it should be obvious.

So please, those who have issues with Murray, use this thread to educate me.
BUT PLEASE..NO ELABORATE COMPLEX SERIES OF A TO B TO Z TO AA BB TO C.

Just keep it simple.
Show me the blatant smoking gun heretical teachings of this guy.
Don't give me a link to someone else's webpage or blog. Usually those are the aforementioned mental gymnastic, tedious, not worth my time sources.


Follow this format.

1. Assertion.
2. One to six sentences of actual source material that is so blatant it can prove your assertion without having to do a complex explanation. If your source is a video, please keep it six minutes or under.
3. URL/Web link to actual source material.


The floor is open.
Educate me.
Educate us all.
 
May 15, 2013
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#2
He believe in the ole' time religion that's picturing God as a God of wrath, but really he is like Jonah and John, but Jonah and John didn't had lust in their heart or the love of the things of this world. But he's trying to become perfect, but he has a few flaws and which the Scriptures is saying that it is impossible for us to perfected ourselves.
 
J

John_S

Guest
#3
Arnold Murray - I have never heard of him and probably don't care to.
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#6
He believe in the ole' time religion that's picturing God as a God of wrath, but really he is like Jonah and John, but Jonah and John didn't had lust in their heart or the love of the things of this world. But he's trying to become perfect, but he has a few flaws and which the Scriptures is saying that it is impossible for us to perfected ourselves.
I think we should spend our time looking to Christ and scripture instead of looking for flaws in preachers. You can always find flaws. God IS a God of wrath, a God who judges and it is OK to say so. God IS a God of love who wants most of all to have us live eternally with Him and live here in peace and goodness. It is OK to say so.

It seems to me that a sort of pendulum swings in most things. All skirts are long, all skirts are short, all houses are build one story and all houses are built two story. Preachers went through a pendulum swing of hell and damnation, and now the pendulum has swung to love, Jesus meek and mild. Both are true, we are to see all of God not just one part. I've been pointing out that God expects obedience, too. Oh MY!! I am told I am a false teacher. I do not know Christ. I am that person who preaches law, tsk tsk. All my words helped posters dig in their heels, opposing the idea of obedience and I didn't see any poster who checked me out with scripture to see if I spoke truth. They saw it as against the truth of spirit and love, only, when I most certainly absolutely did not mean it to result it that kind of reaction.

I don't think any one should listen to any man as only truth, but each listen and check what they say with scripture. If it is a way of looking at scripture they hadn't seen before, maybe they can learn something.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
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#7
Yes just like the format I requested.
This allows for easy access to the information without all of the tedious ranting and such.
You would say yes, lol. This will all be an incomplete copy and post from CRI web site from the link previously posted, By: B.J. Oropreza.

1. Murray hold to a modalism of God. - Referring to Christ, Murray says, “His spirit is holy and he is the Holy Spirit.” (Shepherd’s Chapel Question and Answers period, 5‐8‐91) - One person in 3 roles.

2. Little Gods - In Genesis 1:26 when referring to the “Our” and “Us” (which have normally been understood to mean the Persons of the Trinity: Mal. 2:10; cf. Job 9:8; Isa. 44:24) Murray says, “he spoke to the Elohim, meaning God and his children, ‘let us make that man in our image,’ which is to say make it look in the likeness that we are. Do you appear as your soul appeared in the world that was?” — “I told you that God said, “In Our image, Our likeness, the Elohim were standing there,” they were from before.” (Tape #146) “We always were with Him [God] until you were born into this earth.” (Kenites, Tape #486) Similar to the cultic teaching of the Mormons, Murray declares that God is “one man,…our Father,” and like the Oneness Pentecostals, God “(sic) gots three offices he serves.” (Shepherd’s Chapel Questions and Answers period, aired 5‐14‐91)

3. Anglo‐Israel Origins - Mr. Murray teaches Anglo‐Israelism, which believes that Anglo‐Saxons are the chosen race, and America and Great Britain are the lost tribes of the children of Israel. Murray claims that the northern ten tribes of Israel are “the same tribes that later went north and populated Europe and North America.” (The Shepherd’s Chapel newsletter #148, 2‐91)

4. The Serpent Seed Doctrine and the Kenites - Another central teaching of Arnold Murray is the serpent seed doctrine. According to Murray, Eve had sex with the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. In 2 Corinthians 11:3, Murray uses the word “beguiled” to mean “wholly seduced.” Hence, Murray claims the Serpent sexually seduced Eve who then became pregnant with Cain; the devil’s literal offspring. Murray asserts that the offspring of Cain are called the “Kenites.” He also states that the Kenites are not a race, “but a hybrid.” (Genesis 1:1‐6:22, tape #146)

Hence, Murray believes that Jesus is referring to these particular Jews as the literal offspring of Satan. Regarding the Jews he writes, “Now, who stands in Jerusalem today?.. the sons of Cain, or those who will not accept Jesus Christ..the Kenites, that founded a new nation starting in 1948.” (The Shepherd’s Bible, Commentary by Arnold Murray, 1979)

5. The Biblical View of the Races- Murray asserts in Genesis 1 and 2 are about 2 different Adams. Sorry no references on this one.

6. MURRAY’S FAULTY VIEW HELL - Mr. Murray also teaches the doctrine of annihilationism. This view teaches that all unbelievers will not be tormented eternally in hell, but will completely disappear. “We know man can kill our earthly bodies, but only our Father in heaven has the power to wipe out the existence of the soul…God’s emotions are so much greater than you can even imagine, and to roast one of his own children day and night would be something only Satan would conceive of.” (Newsletter #151)

7. ARNOLD MURRAY: GOD’S EXCLUSIVE END‐TIME MESSENGER? - What really sets Arnold Murray apart is his claim to be God’s exclusive messenger for this era. Although he says that not all Christians are deceived, his comments nevertheless ostracize all orthodox denominations as being deceived. First, all teachers who do not hold to a literal offspring of God and Satan (i.e., the serpent seed doctrine), are considered by Murray as “nothing but a bunch of self‐righteous hypocrites blinded by what sounds good to men’s ears.” (Tape #436)

Second, Christians who believe in a literal six‐day creation are deceived and many are going to hell (i.e., all or most fundamentalists). “Only an idiot will stand and argue…such a thing [young earth creationism], for the manuscripts declare that this earth, not this earth age, but this earth is millions of years old…A lot are going to hell unless they realize ‘the destruction that was’ [i.e., the gap theory between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2]…Take the blinders…off of your eyes where you just have tunnel vision, one earth age. You can’t understand God’s Word if that’s all you see” (ibid.). Third, Christians who believe in the rapture, speak in tongues, or celebrate Easter are deceived (that includes all major branches of Christianity: Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox!). “Do we know anyone deceived by any of Satan’s lies? Do we believe in rapture, or babbling, or Easter, etc?…To flirt with doctrines, beliefs, and traditions that are contrary to what Christ taught endangers the pureness of your soul…Recognize the false from the true so you may come to the wedding, worthy and accountable to be accepted.” (The Shepherd’s Chapel Newsletter #126, 4‐89) Fourth, he claims that the majority of Christians have been “wrong since the beginning” (i.e., historic orthodox Christianity). (Parable of the Fig Tree, Tape #445)

A lot more could be said, but this is your baby, if you want it, go find it. :)~

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION:
The following documents, which are posted at our Web site (also available upon request free of charge in limited quantities), address topics related to the discussion above:
The Trinity (DT160; DT250)
Racism, Anglo‐Israelism, and serpent seed (DI100; DP700)
The impossibility of human and demon cohabitation (DG064; JAG062)
Interpretation of Scripture (DI501‐1; DI501‐2)
Defining orthodox Christianity (JAE100‐1; JAE100‐2)
Eschatology (end times) and D‐day declarations (DE150; DE160; DE250)
Hell versus annihilationism (DA286; DH190)
The Mormon concept of God and eternal progression (DM410)

Age of creation (DA060)
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#8
I think people are not into following instructions 1Still. I think some rants are on its way.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#9
Follow this format.

1. Assertion.
PRE-EXISTENCE

pre-existence doctrine actually states that human beings were the sons of God (angels) who were with God in the First Earth Age; there when He created.

He consulted or included the spirit-children (angels....now human beings) in creation. He said - let US (meaning you; arnold murray; me, Robo et al - and the Modalistic (?) God make "man" in "our" image.

meaning God is anthropomorphic as are angels...you get the idea.

so, he (we ) did.

but then there was a war or something in heaven...1/3 of God's spirit-children (angels) - THE ELECT, in the First Earth Age fought against satan and the other 2/3 who rebelled against God.

the elect and God prevailed (i think)....but God was so ticked off that in the First Earth Age the perfect earth millions of years ago was polluted....He clumped it all like playbough or something and scrubbed it.

he called some kind of cosmic council and all the angels (now human beings) were told the mission - God would wipe all memories clean and send all the spirit-children good and bad through the redemption process....by placing them into flesh bodies to be born of water.

the idea is that the elect (the ones who fought for God against the bad angel-people and satan) are supposed to wake up to their identities through some gnostic signal in the gospel....and try to convince the rebel spirit-angel-children to repent and come back to God.

it appears the elect are the Anglo-Americans (?).

to make matters worse, satan entered the Plan B (Second Earth Age) at Eden and had sex with Eve, producing Cain, who is an hybrid of some kind. cain had hybrid devil-children (literal spawn of satan).

i don't know how he connects the spirit children to this new breed, on earth- the devil angel human hybrid thing.

this Earth Age is for fixing all that somehow.

then comes the Millennium when everybody who didnt get a good shot at the Gospel gets a second chance.

~

documentation tomorrow, but dunno if there's a ten minute video....there's a 3 part, 3 earth age series.

don't know why i even have to document it - he's on tv and video and tape; millions watch him and know this is what he teaches.

2. One to six sentences of actual source material that is so blatant it can prove your assertion without having to do a complex explanation. If your source is a video, please keep it six minutes or under.
3. URL/Web link to actual source material.
k....tomorrow.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#10
k...way more than 6 sentences.
i'll edit it tomorrow.
or whatever.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#11
wow. You people call yourself Christian ? You should be ashamed. ...

Arnold Murray is a Christian Bible teacher. He teaches all of the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse thus saith God .

These attacks are unwarranted against the man ... Because you refuse to get into the word and study yourselves, when you see scriptures, and teachings of Christ that you never bothered to study with any degree of understanding, you then call God's word foreign, or being to make up and gossip about other Christians who actually stick with God's words to the letter, quoting the lies of others, saying they said this or that, and they never said that.

Proverbs 6:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.



The gossiper sites ( Christians in disguise ) are passing along false information, which some of you willing quote.
 
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BananaPie

Guest
#12
Follow this format.

1. Assertion.
2. One to six sentences of actual source material that is so blatant
3. URL/Web link to actual source material.
1. Murray teaches that there is no "rapture."

The Bible says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
(1 Thessalonians 4:17).

2. According to Murray, "to meet the Lord in the air" means "to meet Jesus in the breath of life" as in having an incorruptible soul. Therefore, Murray teaches that all folks (like BananaPie) who believe in "the rapture" belong to a cult; hence, heretics who are to be taught Murray's stuff.

3. Murray has been speaking this stuff (on TV and over the radio) since Hal Lindsey's 70's "Late Great Planet Earth" novel. :)
The following link has direct quotes from Murray's Newsletter publishing.

Shepherd's Chapel and the rapture | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 
B

BananaPie

Guest
#13
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
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#14
1. Murray teaches that there is no "rapture."

The Bible says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
(1 Thessalonians 4:17).

2. According to Murray, "to meet the Lord in the air" means "to meet Jesus in the breath of life" as in having an incorruptible soul. Therefore, Murray teaches that all folks (like BananaPie) who believe in "the rapture" belong to a cult; hence, heretics who are to be taught Murray's stuff.

3. Murray has been speaking this stuff (on TV and over the radio) since Hal Lindsey's 70's "Late Great Planet Earth" novel. :)
The following link has direct quotes from Murray's Newsletter publishing.

Shepherd's Chapel and the rapture | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

All you people who know exactly how it will be, when what will happen when Christ returns sounds just like the bible scholars in 50 BC. They read and completely understood Daniel and Isaiah so they knew just as surely as all of you do. They even judged the Savior after He came based on what the scripture said.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#15
Stilly,

In a nutshell, almost everything Mr. Arnold Murray had to say, from "the serpent seed" (Eve having intercourse with Satan) to him being "God's messenger" is similar to consistently sleeping with chewed gum in your mouth guarantees you the realities of several dental disappointments. :)

The serpent seed - Pastor Arnold Murrary - http://www.shepherdschapel.com - YouTube

. . . or waking up with gum in your hair . . . either way, a tedious condition to undo . . .

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#16
1. Murray teaches that there is no "rapture."

The Bible says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
(1 Thessalonians 4:17).

2. According to Murray, "to meet the Lord in the air" means "to meet Jesus in the breath of life" as in having an incorruptible soul. Therefore, Murray teaches that all folks (like BananaPie) who believe in "the rapture" belong to a cult; hence, heretics who are to be taught Murray's stuff.

3. Murray has been speaking this stuff (on TV and over the radio) since Hal Lindsey's 70's "Late Great Planet Earth" novel. :)
The following link has direct quotes from Murray's Newsletter publishing.

Shepherd's Chapel and the rapture | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Here's a short video that reflects what you say above:

Arnold Murray Exposed (Part 1) - YouTube
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#18
The following shows Arnold Murray pulling fantasy doctrine directly out of his . . . hat . . .
I actually talked with """"minister"""" fort-son at length . Minster fortson, is a anti-christian do you want to take his advice? do you know the man ? . He has a reputation for twisting/editing ; good Christians words ; ( much like Satan did with scripture ) in order to sell his own books. really pathetic.... Do you want to be on his side ? Are you really going to judge a lifetime of Bible study, from a few clips, form a antichrist ? It is pathetic .

Like I said, Murray is a wonderful Bible teacher. His ability to teach all of God's words to the letter, from the Manuscripts ( He can read them ) is well documented for anyone willing to take the time to study their Bibles and look into the Hebrew Greek Chaldee and Aramaic...

Oh wait, your not all going to do that, that's asking for too much. So continue with the gossip which God hates. He will call you out on it later unless you repent.
 
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JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#19
I actually talked with """"minister"""" fort-son at length . Minster fortson, is a anti-christian do you want to take his advice? do you know the man ? . He has a reputation for twisting/editing ; good Christians words ; ( much like Satan did with scripture ) in order to sell his own books. really pathetic.... Do you want to be on his side ? Are you really going to judge a lifetime of Bible study, from a few clips, form a antichrist ? It is pathetic .
If the above videos had taken clips from different monologues, you might have a point, but the videos don't do that; they take a continuous monologue and address each point.

I took each video on its own merit and found them to be valid critiques. I've also watched enough of Shepherd's Chapel to be able to pick out the falsehoods on my own.

Do you believe that you pre-existed as an angel? Arnold Murray says you did. Not a Scripture to back it up, but he teaches it nonetheless.

Like I said, Murray is a wonderful Bible teacher. His ability to teach all of God's words to the letter, from the Manuscripts ( He can read them ) is well documented for anyone willing to take the time to study their Bibles and look into the Hebrew Greek Chaldee and Aramaic...
Bull pucky. He makes stuff up. A lot. Here's some more: Arnold Murray - The False Teacher - Part 1.wmv - YouTube

Oh wait, your not all going to do that, that's asking for too much. So continue with the gossip which God hates. He will call you out on it later unless you repent.
Oh wait - you don't know me. I ROUTINELY go to the Greek and Hebrew and can tell you that Arnold Murray absolutely does pull stuff out of his . . . hat.

-JGIG
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#20
If the above videos had taken clips from different monologues, you might have a point, but the videos don't do that; they take a continuous monologue and address each point.

I took each video on its own merit and found them to be valid critiques. I've also watched enough of Shepherd's Chapel to be able to pick out the falsehoods on my own.

Do you believe that you pre-existed as an angel? Arnold Murray says you did. Not a Scripture to back it up, but he teaches it nonetheless.



Bull pucky. He makes stuff up. A lot. Here's some more: Arnold Murray - The False Teacher - Part 1.wmv - YouTube



Oh wait - you don't know me. I ROUTINELY go to the Greek and Hebrew and can tell you that Arnold Murray absolutely does pull stuff out of his . . . hat.

-JGIG

If you want to bash on some one you know nothing about, an take advice from a antichrist like minister-fortson's ( who you also know nothing about ) hack job of a video, ignoring a lifetime of Bible study of a good Christian pastor like Murray; just so, he can drum up some lies and attention for his books, then that will be on you.

I can't engage in serious Bible study; with some one who would resort to gossip and smear videos from anti-christian ( antichrist money hungry ) people.
have fun .
 
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