Should we get ready for the rapture or the tribulation?

sword · Nov 1, 2009

According to some brothers the rapture will happen before the great tribulation, however in the Bible there are clear passages that tell us we will have to stand the tribulation till the end:

2 Thessalonians 2
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him (RAPTURE), we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

And Jesus our Lord and Saviour said: "He who endures till the end will be saved". Besides if Jesus and his disciples went through such a hard persecution and suffering. Why shouldn´t we?

Slepsog4 · Nov 1, 2009

Neither one. They have already occurred. Don't you realize the Book of Revelation was written to and for a first century audience undergoing persecution by the Roman Empire.

Brackenzee · Nov 1, 2009

First of all, 'Rapture' as it's commonly used is not a Biblical concept. Nobody in the first century taught that the Second Coming would happen in two parts, or at least none in the canon of Scripture. Second, we should always be prepared for tribulations, great or otherwise. Nobody is guaranteed ease through life.

As for persecution, it really depends on where you live. Some governments are persecuting Christians today as strongly as the Roman Empire ever did, and we should do everything in our power to help them.

watchmen · Nov 1, 2009

Jesus returns to gather the elect at the end of the Great Tribulation, which could begin any day now.

suaso · Nov 1, 2009

I think, independent of what anyone believes about the rapture or the tribulation, everyone should be ready at every moment for their own demise.

I have been fortunate enough to recieve a great deal of my spiritual formation from Benedictine monks. Out of the Rule of St. Benedict is this passage:

Live in fear of judgement day and have a great horror of hell.
Yearn for everlasting life with holy desire.
Day by day remind yourself that you are going to die.
Hour by hour keep careful watch over all you do, aware that God's gaze is upon you, wherever you may be. - Rule of Benedict 4:47-49

That is something I think we all ought to do. Then, it won't matter if the Second Coming, and whatever is associated with it, comes tonight, tomorrow, next week, or next century. When we as individuals die and go to meet the Lord, we should be ready because it is the right thing to do: preparing ourselves daily for our death that we may be found worthy of the promises of Christ.

that_one_guy · Nov 1, 2009

here we go......................

Jordan9 · Nov 2, 2009

We should always be ready. But being ready shouldn't mean that's all we think about. We've only got so many years on Earth, and I don't think the Lord wants us standing around waiting for Him, especially when there is so much work to be done.

Pete_Martinez · Nov 2, 2009

Matthew 24:44-51
Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?
Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions
But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,'
and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards
the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know.

Denying the imminent return of Christ is a very dangerous place to put oneself. Who was the servant who beat his fellow servants and sat with drunkards? The one who stopped looking for his Lord's return. I think it's interesting that very few are looking forward to the Lord's return, yet this is the hour with the greatest lukewarmness and spiritual deadness in the church.

I mean I can understand the reasoning, others looked forward for some sort of deliverance and were greatly disappointed. But we can't go the other extreme and say no we all have to die in the tribulation.

Thess 4:17-18
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

From the words of Dave Hunt “It makes no sense to suggest that if you can secretly eat out of enough garbage pails to avoid starvation and still keep one step ahead of the Antichrist’s world police death squads, 'Blessed hope! You’ll be raptured at Armageddon!'"

concernedguy · Nov 2, 2009

sword said:

I think it is best to be ready for either. But my opinion is that the church will be raptured before
the tribulation. We as God's children are saved by grace and not appointed for wrath. Paul also
said as God's Children, the sudden destruction of the return of Christ will not surprise His Children.
1 Thess 5: 3-4

The original Greek word used is ek in the Bible which means "complete exemption". Since Christ removed
our sins and Christ only punishes the wicked and not His Children, I believe we will not be here
during the tribulation. 1 Thess 5:9
Also if you remember, angels were sent to remove Lot from Sodom so it could be destroyed. There
is no where in the Bible - Old Testament or New Testament - where God's Children are not warned
prior to a destruction taking place. In keeping with this "nature of God", it is reasonable to conclude
His Children will not be under punishment in the tribulation since punishment is for those not of Christ
and not His saved elect.
The purpose of the tribulation is not to punish Christians. It is to turn Israel back to God. But this time,
God is not sending a servant (Jesus), He is returning as God in Power to judge. Since Israel has been so
stubborn to rebel against God by killing Jesus and ignoring the entire New Testament which means
they do not accept Christ's death, God will deal with them as Israel wishes. Israel says their God
will return in Power not as a servant like Jesus. Since Israel won't listen to Christ and do things the
easy way, God will return as they wish in Power but He will be judging them at the same time.

But in either case, we have no say so it is best to be prepared for anything.

I'm not aware of any verses that say we have to stand till the end of the tribulation. There are verses
that say we have to stand for God till the end of our life but this is in regard to whether your life ends
due to natural death or if you are called upon to give your life for Christ.

I do not agree the tribulation has started simply because in the first 3 1/2 years, there will be peace on
earth - which there isn't - the right hand man of satan will be in control and have all the right answers
so it seems - he is not in power - and this 3 1/2 years will be a time of plenty - which is not the case
right now either. Obama is not satan's right hand man.

As far as suffering, we will. Jesus said the world hated me, they will hate you too. Jesus also said
they will kill you in My Name. There is much persecution going on in the world except for here in
the US where we have safety as a blessing from God.
Here in the US, God has blessed us with safety and His Word is freely everywhere but has little to no
value. In other countries, His Word is held in high esteem and difficult to find due to being beaten or
killed if you seek it but God's Word means everything over there to the point that some must offer
their life as a sacrifice to God just minutes or days after finding Christ.

In the US, we think we are persecuted if someone just tells us to shutup. No one is shooting at us,
beating us, torturing us, imprisoning us, hanging us or setting us on fire.
I do find it odd that if one soldier is killed abroad, it is all over the news. Yet the hundreds of
Christians (US Citizens) killed every week abroad are of no concern to our govt.

The number of Christians killed for Christ in just the 20th century is higher than the combined total
of all centuries prior to the 20th century. If you think being a Christian is safe, just go to another
country and in less than a few minutes you will know it isn't.

Our southern neighbor Mexico will kill any Christian in their country telling others about Christ. All
you need to do is visit Mexico and you will see the only reason we are not attacked in the US is
because of our Freedom of Religion Laws. Those laws do not exist in other countries.

Our time will come. Till then, lean on God and learn to access His Power so you are ready for anything.
Then it doesn't matter what happens. Just like Paul said, "Don't concern yourself with these things".
Instead of worrying about end times, it is better to worry about today and how we will tell others
about Christ today. As God says, "Do not concern yourself with tomorrow. Today has enough troubles
of its own to worry about".

Marcus2x2 · Nov 2, 2009

In terms of what view to take, I think in regards to the rapture that it will occur before the great tribulation. Either way, the Scriptures talk about Jesus returning as a thief in the night. I think one should get ones heart right before God in anticipation of His return regardless.

I'll also add I don't think people realise (myself included) what parts of the Scriptures pre-mill pre-tribs base their views upon and this adds to the confusion in determining who is right. I've grown up in a family that has taken the pre-mill pre-trib view for about 4 generations and I haven't looked into the issue in great detail, a fascinating as it is!

concernedguy · Nov 2, 2009

Pete_Martinez said:

I agree. But many including Christians say - Oh they been saying for over 2,000 years Jesus is going to
return!

But many are being ignorant as God's Word states. For a second is as a thousand years. In God's Time
it may have only been two seconds. God's timeline is not the same as ours.

Denying Christ's return is the same as denying God, Christ His Son and His Holy Word since the
statement means God is a liar, Jesus - if He did actually come to earth 2,000 years ago - is a liar too
and The Promises in God's word are lies meaning God is not God since He is not perfect due to
telling lies. If this is all true, we are all wasting our time because there is nothing to look forward to.
It's all a lie.

I'll chose Christ over a bunch of foolish thoughts of man.

MahogonySnail · Nov 2, 2009

WE have to be ready for the rapture it could occur any time.

Indra · Nov 2, 2009

And how else besides prayer and praise can you be more ready? Answer: you can't. By faith, and faith alone.

sword · Nov 2, 2009

One thing is to go through tribulation and another thing is to be punished. Since we are not better than Jesus and his apostles who experienced a tremendous tribulation (persecution and martyrdom) there is no biblical reason to think that we won`t experience the tribulation. May the Lord give us the courage to stand it and endure till the end.

Steve · Nov 2, 2009

Play safe - prepare for both

Thaddaeus · Nov 2, 2009

it depends if you want to go when he comes like a thief in the night and some are taken and some are left or if you want to go when He kicks satan into hell and all are raised from the grave and the sea and judged at the same time???

miktre · Nov 2, 2009

1 Thessalonians 5:2 (King James Version)

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

The Bible isn't telling us that it can happen at any moment here. It's telling us it will happen when we least expect it, while are guards are down, while we sleep. It says His day is going to come in the night. When you look at night in profecy it always concerns satan. So Christs day is going to come during the night anti-christs reign, satans reign. Satan himself, who was a most beautiful angel and is the antichrist. If one has already been deceived and beleives that Christ is already here, oh boy wouldn't that be quite unexpected when the True Savior shows up, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Lets look at 2 thes ch 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Who is the son of perdition? Well the Bible says that satan is the only one been judged to death. Everyone else will be judged on judgment day.
Ezekiel 28:12-19 (King James Version)

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Hethr · Nov 2, 2009

Live in fear? Come on do you really think Jesus wants us to live in fear???

miktre · Nov 2, 2009

miktre said:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 (King James Version)

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

The Bible isn't telling us that it can happen at any moment here. It's telling us it will happen when we least expect it, while are guards are down, while we sleep. It says His day is going to come in the night. When you look at night in profecy it always concerns satan. So Christs day is going to come during the night anti-christs reign, satans reign. Satan himself, who was a most beautiful angel and is the antichrist. If one has already been deceived and beleives that Christ is already here, oh boy wouldn't that be quite unexpected when the True Savior shows up, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Lets look at 2 thes ch 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Who is the son of perdition? Well the Bible says that satan is the only one been judged to death. Everyone else will be judged on judgment day.
Ezekiel 28:12-19 (King James Version)

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

I just wanted to clear up the son of perdition part, perdition= to perish or be destroyed; son of perdition= the one that has been judged to be destroyed

cookie39 · Nov 2, 2009

sword said:

I will answer your question the way God gave it to me, there are two tribulation periods, one is just tribulation and the other is the great tribulation,
if you read the signs Jesus said to look for and read them in the book of revelations you will see that Jesus said that this is the beginning of birth pains, but the end is not yet, Matthew 24.....
also in I Cor. 15:51, Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
now if you go to the book of Revelations 9:20-21 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
up untill this point which is the first tribulation period God has tried to get the world to repent, the LAST trumpet has not yet sounded, but their has been five trumpets sounded each bring destruction on a 3rd of the world and not all at once. and the fifth and sixth, bringing the greatest of all pain,
ok lets go here,, 1st trumpet...Rev. 8:7...2nd.. 8:8...3rd 8:10...4th 8:12...5th 9:1-12.. 6th 9:13-19.and there was other things God had to do before the 7th trumpet sounded like there was the witnessess sent from God and the "Woes". which in Rev. 11:14 came after the second woe the 7th trumpet sounded which is the LAST trump. and before the first trump sounded there were the seals being opend which with each of these came destruction. Rev. 6:1-17..1st conquering and to conquer... 2 war.. 3 famine...4 death...5 martyrs seen...6 catalysm (earth quakes....)
as we see not untill Revelation 13, is when the beast which the people was to recieve or reject his mark, and there were those who did not receive the mark of the beast: these are the ones came out of the great tribulation; these are who Jesus said if they endure to the end they shall be saved. some may give in to eat or eed their children so they will eventually take the mark of the beast. there is so many other scriptures that is linked to your question, I gave you the ones I think will help get an understanding and start you on your search in the word, I pray this helps you as well as others

because God say my people perish for a lack of knowledge. and to think that there is only one tribulation and that we as saints of God will not have to suffer at all in tribulation. and to think when these things happen it is the end, or to think that it will happen all at once on the whole earth, is a lack of knowledge, and will be left behind to endure the great tribulation to its end to be saved. will be for their lack of knowledge.

Should we get ready for the rapture or the tribulation?

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