Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

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L

LT

Guest
#41
"STRIKING HANDS"
Is this custom of cutting and co-mingling of blood in one's hand or wrist present in the OT?
The exact custom is not present (however see next column re slave's ear pierced with an awl) but what is present are several examples of a symbolic clasping or giving of the hands that in the context indicate a solemn agreement has been reached between the parties clasping hands.
Covenant: The Oneness of Covenant


Red Palm Oil - Ancient Healing Power

The Gaurdian | For generations, red palm oil has been revered as both a nutritious food and a valuable medicine. Even now, scientists are beginning to recognise the value of the prized plant in the treatment and prevention of several diseases. Ben Ukwuoma writes on the latest scientific work presented at the International Biomedical Science Congress held in Birminghan United Kingdom by a Nigerian scientist, based in Cape Town South Africa on the nutritional and healing properties inherent in the plant.
It was prized by the Pharaohs of ancient Egypt as a sacred food. The oil was so highly valued that it was entombed with the Pharaohs so that they would have access to it in the afterlife.
Red Palm Oil - Ancient Healing Power


Stigmata (singular stigma) is a term used by members of the Christian faith to describe body marks, sores, or sensations of pain in locations corresponding to the crucifixion wounds of Jesus Christ, such as the hands, wrists, and feet.
The term originates from the line at the end of Saint Paul's Letter to the Galatians where he says, "I bear on my body the marks of Jesus." Stigmatais the plural of the Greek word στίγμα stigma, meaning a mark, tattoo,[SUP][1][/SUP] or brand such as might have been used for identification of an animal orslave. An individual bearing stigmata is referred to as a stigmatic or a stigmatist.
Stigmata are primarily associated with the Roman Catholic faith. Many reported stigmatics are members of Catholic religious orders.[SUP][2][/SUP] St. Francis of Assisi was the first recorded stigmatic in Christian history. For over fifty years, Padre Pio of Pietrelcina of the Order of Friars Minor Capuchinreported stigmata which were studied by several 20th-century physicians.
A high percentage (perhaps over 80%) of all stigmatics are women.[SUP][3][/SUP] In his Stigmata: A Medieval Phenomenon in a Modern Age, Edward Harrison suggests that there is no single mechanism whereby the marks of stigmata were produced.
Stigmata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Cool. I'll do some research too. This would be a very strong link in the 'redemptive symbolism chain' if it can be proven thoroughly.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#42
The Rapture is at Rev.6:12, then the church is in Heaven, which is the "great multitude" of Rev. 7. But the 144,000 ,Jews only, are still on the earth, "saved"sealed" by God and will be killed "beheaded" by the antichrist. and raised by Jesus in Rev. 20:4. Love to all, Hoffco
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
The Rapture is at Rev.6:12, then the church is in Heaven, which is the "great multitude" of Rev. 7. But the 144,000 ,Jews only, are still on the earth, "saved"sealed" by God and will be killed "beheaded" by the antichrist. and raised by Jesus in Rev. 20:4. Love to all, Hoffco
Now this is not taking anything seriously.

there are not just 144000 people saved. they are missionaries sent to spread the word of God.. That is their task. Many people are saved by their gospel. God is not going to allow all his missionaries to get killed.
 
L

LT

Guest
#44
The Rapture is at Rev.6:12, then the church is in Heaven, which is the "great multitude" of Rev. 7. But the 144,000 ,Jews only, are still on the earth, "saved"sealed" by God and will be killed "beheaded" by the antichrist. and raised by Jesus in Rev. 20:4. Love to all, Hoffco
it is true that the 144k are not in heaven during this scene, whereas the multitude is, but the 144k are on Mount Zion according to chapter 14.
hmmm....
but Christ is there with them, so at what point chronologically is this?!
 
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Sep 1, 2013
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#45
so only 144,000 people are going to get saved...

As I mentioned before the number may be more figurative than actual count but let’s consider this:

The first fruits of God (144K) are not the only ones who are going to be saved but this definitely fits Christ’s teaching when He says many are called but few are chosen. That doesn’t mean many are called but few are saved. There are the sheep (the meek who inherit the earth) who will be saved at Christ’s coming. These sheep are not part of the first resurrection and those who were alive and were changed to meet the resurrected in the air with Christ at His coming (the first fruits), but they are separated from the goats here on earth after Christ returns. The sheep don’t even know that they did anything good for the Lord until the Lord points out that they did these things to His brethren who are there with him in glory after being changed and resurrected. Then there will be many, many who are saved because they are found in the Book of Life at the second resurrection, which is the resurrection of everyone else who ever lived since the very beginning.

The 144,000 are Israelites, Blood Bought during the Tribulation. They are not all Jews. They are from each of the tribes. God will reveal the genealogies in His own timing. The great multitude is from every nation. There are both Israelites and Gentiles in this group

Jews, Israelites…. I only say Jews for simplicity because of all the confusing teachings about the lost ten tribes. No one is a gentile in Christ. When you are grafted in you become an olive branch part of the olive tree not an alien branch. And that is exactly what that scripture in Revelation about the 144k is teaching.

The first fruits of Christ are all those who belong to Christ and all those are of the seed of Abraham. People have got to get their minds out of the dust when thinking about the Kingdom of God. A spirit being is like the angels thay are not dust. A gentile man is dust, an Israelite man is dust… When God is talking about the 144k/great multitude He’s talking about from where they were derived according to flesh (all nations tongues etc) and where they will be according to spirit (144k Israel). When they become all Israel at the first resurrection they are no longer flesh and blood… they are like the angels. So they come from all nations in the material and they end up like Israel (spiritual) at the resurrection in the spiritual with spiritual bodies.

There are no Mexican spirits, Armenian spirits, Jewish spirits etc… When you are resurrected you become the same substance as God and He is not of a physical nationality, race or ethnic group.

The term “Israel” was created before time began by the eternal God which belongs to the Spirit not to the flesh and was first given to a man named Jacob. That name is given by God to all He chooses because He’s the one who created it. It was not created by birth but existed in God before creation. So all the first fruits who are saved will bear that name that existed before time: Israel

 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#46
In ch.14 we are not told what is going on ,we can not be sure if the 144.000 are alive or dead. I think they are dead already and christ honors them by having a "picture taken" with them on mt. Zion. 14:4 the 144,000 " These were redeemed from among men, firstfruits to God and oj the LAMB. .... v.6 the ANGEL, ( not the 144,000) preaches the Gospel to the whole earth." I conclude, the 144,000 Jews are dead and with Christ in ch.14, love to all Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#47
It sounds like we have a Mormon in our midst, fine, ok, but, let me say, at the resurrection, we do not become God or take on the "substance" of God. We become like Jesus in His perfect humanity for ever. never are we to become God or a part of God. Love to all, Hoffco
 
L

LT

Guest
#48

As I mentioned before the number may be more figurative than actual count but let’s consider this:

The first fruits of God (144K) are not the only ones who are going to be saved but this definitely fits Christ’s teaching when He says many are called but few are chosen. That doesn’t mean many are called but few are saved. There are the sheep (the meek who inherit the earth) who will be saved at Christ’s coming. These sheep are not part of the first resurrection and those who were alive and were changed to meet the resurrected in the air with Christ at His coming (the first fruits), but they are separated from the goats here on earth after Christ returns. The sheep don’t even know that they did anything good for the Lord until the Lord points out that they did these things to His brethren who are there with him in glory after being changed and resurrected. Then there will be many, many who are saved because they are found in the Book of Life at the second resurrection, which is the resurrection of everyone else who ever lived since the very beginning.


Jews, Israelites…. I only say Jews for simplicity because of all the confusing teachings about the lost ten tribes. No one is a gentile in Christ. When you are grafted in you become an olive branch part of the olive tree not an alien branch. And that is exactly what that scripture in Revelation about the 144k is teaching.

The first fruits of Christ are all those who belong to Christ and all those are of the seed of Abraham. People have got to get their minds out of the dust when thinking about the Kingdom of God. A spirit being is like the angels thay are not dust. A gentile man is dust, an Israelite man is dust… When God is talking about the 144k/great multitude He’s talking about from where they were derived according to flesh (all nations tongues etc) and where they will be according to spirit (144k Israel). When they become all Israel at the first resurrection they are no longer flesh and blood… they are like the angels. So they come from all nations in the material and they end up like Israel (spiritual) at the resurrection in the spiritual with spiritual bodies.

There are no Mexican spirits, Armenian spirits, Jewish spirits etc… When you are resurrected you become the same substance as God and He is not of a physical nationality, race or ethnic group.

The term “Israel” was created before time began by the eternal God which belongs to the Spirit not to the flesh and was first given to a man named Jacob. That name is given by God to all He chooses because He’s the one who created it. It was not created by birth but existed in God before creation. So all the first fruits who are saved will bear that name that existed before time: Israel

I know what you're trying to say, but it seems unnecessary. The joining of these two groups makes no end difference, other than you being unwilling to accept what the Bible is literally saying.

It seems your only reason for joining these groups into one is because of your resistance to the idea of a group of ethnic Israelites having any particular role in the future. There is not other Scripture (other than a possible interpretation of Isaiah 66:21) that equates Gentile believers with a specific tribe of Israel.

It is unrealistic to base a whole 'doctrine of equation' (all believers are in a spiritual tribe of Israel) on a single verse that has a much clearer literal interpretation.

If God tells us that He will chose a group of 144k Israelites as a special prize(first fruits) for Himself, then what other Scripture does that go against? The literal doesn't contradict any Scripture, so why mess with it?
Pride?

I hope I've made it clear that your interpretation is not taken from Scripture, but is made from adding thoughts into the text that are not there, nor needed or even warranted.
 
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H

Hoffco

Guest
#49
Is someone blocking my posts? I have lost two post. where are they? Hoffco The144,000 ,Jws only,are killed in ch. 14 and rule the earth with the
Church andJesus. and inrev. 21 the "nations"are seen as brings glory into the New Jerualem. Love Hoffco
 
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#50
In ch.14 we are not told what is going on ,we can not be sure if the 144.000 are alive or dead.
They are the first fruit of Christ which comprise those who have died in Christ and are still living… there will be no racism in the Kingdom of God. Those divisionary teachings of ethnic preference will finally come to an end.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#51
The 144,000 Jews are "firstfruit to God because in a little while at the 2nd coming of Christ to rule, the WHOLE nation of Israel will be saved. Love Hoffco
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#52
I know what you're trying to say, but it seems unnecessary. The joining of these two groups makes no end difference, other than you being unwilling to accept what the Bible is literally saying.

It seems your only reason for joining these groups into one is because of your resistance to the idea of a group of ethnic Israelites having any particular role in the future. There is not other Scripture (other than a possible interpretation of Isaiah 66:21) that equates Gentile believers with a specific tribe of Israel.

It is unrealistic to base a whole 'doctrine of equation' (all believers are in a spiritual tribe of Israel) on a single verse that has a much clearer literal interpretation.

If God tells us that He will chose a group of 144k Israelites as a special prize(first fruits) for Himself, then what other Scripture does that go against? The literal doesn't contradict any Scripture, so why mess with it?
Pride?

I hope I've made it clear that your interpretation is not taken from Scripture, but is made from adding thoughts into the text that are not there, nor needed or even warranted.

Agreed. there would be no reason for God to separate it into 12 groups if it was one group (spiritual) He would just say 144000 from all over the world.

We should just take God at his word. and not try to twist what he meant just so we can match scripture to fit our belief system.
 
Sep 1, 2013
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#53
It seems your only reason for joining these groups into one is because of your resistance to the idea of a group of ethnic Israelites having any particular role in the future.
No it’s my resistance to the worldly teaching that Christ shows partiality based upon ethnicity. It is this evil mindset that comes from man, as I showed it never existed with God.
It is unrealistic to base a whole 'doctrine of equation' (all believers are in a spiritual tribe of Israel) on a single verse that has a much clearer literal interpretation.
It’s all through the scripture but the mind of dust will always gravitate toward dust and teach others to do the same leaving them in the dust.
If God tells us that He will chose a group of 144k Israelites as a special prize(first fruits) for Himself,
Christ is not going to choose 144k based on their ethnicity for Himself. Those are things that men do like Hitler and his Aryan race.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#54
No it’s my resistance to the worldly teaching that Christ shows partiality based upon ethnicity. It is this evil mindset that comes from man, as I showed it never existed with God.

thats your first mistake. God is not showing partiality, He is using these men to spread the gospel to all nations. The fact it is only from one nations shows no partiality at all. It would only be partiality if they were only spreading the gospel to their own nation, and not to gentiles also.

It’s all through the scripture but the mind of dust will always gravitate toward dust and teach others to do the same leaving them in the dust.
Christ is not going to choose 144k based on their ethnicity for Himself. Those are things that men do like Hitler and his Aryan race.

Nope. he is chosing to use this nation to spread his gospel to the whole world. Again, this is not partiality. Thats a false interpretation of what is being done.
 
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#55
Nope. he is chosing to use this nation to spread his gospel to the whole world. Again, this is not partiality. Thats a false interpretation of what is being done.
You mean the "Israel" that's over there right now in the middle east?
 
L

LT

Guest
#56
No it’s my resistance to the worldly teaching that Christ shows partiality based upon ethnicity. It is this evil mindset that comes from man, as I showed it never existed with God.
It’s all through the scripture but the mind of dust will always gravitate toward dust and teach others to do the same leaving them in the dust.
Christ is not going to choose 144k based on their ethnicity for Himself. Those are things that men do like Hitler and his Aryan race.
They are chosen for a purpose, not to rule over the rest! you are hilarious.
 
L

LT

Guest
#57
You mean the "Israel" that's over there right now in the middle east?
no, most of those are likely a part of the Synagogue of Satan, but maybe some of them will be in the 144k
 
May 15, 2013
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#59

thats your first mistake. God is not showing partiality, He is using these men to spread the gospel to all nations. The fact it is only from one nations shows no partiality at all. It would only be partiality if they were only spreading the gospel to their own nation, and not to gentiles also.



Nope. he is chosing to use this nation to spread his gospel to the whole world. Again, this is not partiality. Thats a false interpretation of what is being done.
The physical kingdom or the spiritual kingdom?

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
L

LT

Guest
#60
What purpose according to you… other than their ethnicity?
their full purpose is not made clear in Scripture, but it refers to them following Christ. It doesn't suggest them being in any authority over anyone.
Your "Aryan race" comment was totally unnecessary and has no bearing on their possible purpose. It is clear from Scripture that they would be equal to the others in the multitude. Separate but equal.