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Thread: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

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    Default Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    A biblical study of the Multitude of Revelation 7 that argues they are the raptured Church standing before the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Who Are The Multitude Of Revelation Chapter 7? | Beginning And End

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Omega View Post
    A biblical study of the Multitude of Revelation 7 that argues they are the raptured Church standing before the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Who Are The Multitude Of Revelation Chapter 7? | Beginning And End
    WRONG - They are the martyrs who have been killed for believing in Jesus Christ.
    There is no Pre-Trib Rapture. It will NOT happen. I'm Sorry.
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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    The Scripture says that they came out of the Great Tribulation. This seems pretty clear that these are Tribulation Saints, not the raptured Church. If you believe in a seven-year Tribulation, this verse is horribly confusing. A great multitude of Tribulation saints that is innumerable? Sounds like ALL of the redeemed, not just from a 7-year period.
    From what I've gathered from Scripture, we've been in a 2000+ year Tribulation period, so this scene describes all the believers who have died. Some say it is only the martyrs, but I think they are a separate group.
    It was a good study though.
    Like the rest of Revelation, this section is topical, not chronological. This scene likely describes a single moment as Christ is descending to earth
    Also, what too many people neglect is that, John did not see the future, but saw a vision. The things he recorded are not images of the future, but imagery symbolizing the future.
    Last edited by LT; November 20th, 2013 at 07:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by John_S View Post
    WRONG - There is no Pre-Trib Rapture. It will NOT happen. I'm Sorry.

    There will be a Pre-Trib. Rapture of all true born again Christians before the time of Jacob's trouble.

    So if you are saved John; then when the Rapture happens, you are going up.
    Home Improvement begins with a King James Bible.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenbyHim View Post
    There will be a Pre-Trib. Rapture of all true born again Christians before the time of Jacob's trouble.

    So if you are saved John; then when the Rapture happens, you are going up.

    Jacobs trouble

    Daniel 12

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Any attempt to assign this multitude to a sub-group of humanity is an attempt to "number" them.
    The only number of people that can't be counted by the reader is "everyone ever".
    The reader cannot proceed effectively through the vision until they believe it with all their heart, and "see" it too.
    It's told, ignored, and written off in several other places in scripture, that everyone will come to God, it's His will and power that does not manifest itself in vain towards an incomplete or wasteful end.

    Every person ever created - did not choose to be created, but all do in retrospect, once they see how it all turns out in the end.

    It's everyone, otherwise verses 11 and 12 would not be fitting, possible, or genuine.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    The Great Multitude are the 144,000

    The reason is that first John HEARS the number of God’s servants sealed (he does not SEE the number of those who are sealed at this point just hears):

    “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the SERVANTS of our God on their foreheads.” And I HEARD the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed"

    So at this point John HEARS that God’s servants are 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. He doesn’t SEE anything yet. But what does he SEE with his eyes just after hearing this?


    “After these things I LOOKED, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes”

    What John is LOOKING at are 144,000 people in white robes, 2 super bowl football stadiums of people in white robes from all “nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues". Now in the eyes of John… that is a great multitude “which no one could number”. And of course all the “nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues” are the 12 tribes of Israel because they are all the seed of Abraham in Christ and they are all the SERVANTS of God who get sealed.

    There will be no ethnic divisions in the Kingdom of God where you have 144,000 Jews who can sing a song nobody else can and then you have these other racially different groups who can’t sing that same song (Rev 14:3).
    Last edited by Rockbysea; November 20th, 2013 at 09:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by reject-tech View Post
    Any attempt to assign this multitude to a sub-group of humanity is an attempt to "number" them.
    The only number of people that can't be counted by the reader is "everyone ever".
    The reader cannot proceed effectively through the vision until they believe it with all their heart, and "see" it too.
    It's told, ignored, and written off in several other places in scripture, that everyone will come to God, it's His will and power that does not manifest itself in vain towards an incomplete or wasteful end.

    Every person ever created - did not choose to be created, but all do in retrospect, once they see how it all turns out in the end.

    It's everyone, otherwise verses 11 and 12 would not be fitting, possible, or genuine.
    You really don't believe that the Bible says anyone will be subject to the Judgement and subsequent damnation?

    It says that these are clothed in white. That is saying that they put on the righteousness of Christ, which is described in the text (fine linen represents righteous deeds). Unless you don't believe in chapter 20, I don't understand how you could say that every person ever will be clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

    The number is not infinite (which should be obvious because humanity doesn't have an infinite number of people), and it is the same reference to Abraham's descendants being 'innumerable like the sand of the shore, and stars of the sky'.
    The number is also limited to the description of the group (wearing white), and coming out of the Great Tribulation.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbysea View Post
    The Great Multitude are the 144,000

    The reason is that first John HEARS the number of God’s servants sealed (he does not SEE the number of those who are sealed at this point just hears):

    “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the SERVANTS of our God on their foreheads.” And I HEARD the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed"

    So at this point John HEARS that God’s servants are 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. He doesn’t SEE anything yet. But what does he SEE with his eyes just after hearing this?


    “After these things I LOOKED, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes”

    What John is LOOKING at are 144,000 people in white robes, 2 super bowl football stadiums of people in white robes from all “nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues". Now in the eyes of John… that is a great multitude “which no one could number”. And of course all the “nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues” are the 12 tribes of Israel because they are all the seed of Abraham in Christ and they are all the SERVANTS of God who get sealed.

    There will be no ethnic divisions in the Kingdom of God where you have 144,000 Jews who can sing a song nobody else can and then you have these other racially different groups who can’t sing that same song (Rev 14:3).
    The 144k are a separate elite group. Their purpose is not fully explained, but it is clear from the context that they are separate from the multitude.
    Read verse 9... it says before me, not I heard.
    Both of these groups are mentioned at other times, separately, in Revelation. They are never equated.
    Last edited by LT; November 20th, 2013 at 09:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    The number is also limited to the description of the group (wearing white), and coming out of the Great Tribulation.
    Every person ever born goes through great tribulation, and everyone will come out of it, and for some, that judgment you speak of, and unfortunately, they way they feel about themselves for having called God "man like" afterward, is a part of the process.

    Everyone gets a personal chance to clear His name before He does it Himself.

    God says all will come to the knowledge of Christ, which results in wearing those white robes.

    Entertain yourself, and ask God in prayer if He will save everyone or not, and if so, why haven't you been taught to believe it.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by reject-tech View Post
    Every person ever born goes through great tribulation, and everyone will come out of it, and for some, that judgment you speak of, and unfortunately, they way they feel about themselves for having called God "man like" afterward, is a part of the process.

    Everyone gets a personal chance to clear His name before He does it Himself.

    God says all will come to the knowledge of Christ, which results in wearing those white robes.

    Entertain yourself, and ask God in prayer if He will save everyone or not, and if so, why haven't you been taught to believe it.
    I will consider your view and do some research. Are there any solid teachers that you would suggest I look into for a concise description of this view?

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbysea View Post
    The Great Multitude are the 144,000

    The reason is that first John HEARS the number of God’s servants sealed (he does not SEE the number of those who are sealed at this point just hears):

    “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the SERVANTS of our God on their foreheads.” And I HEARD the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed"

    So at this point John HEARS that God’s servants are 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. He doesn’t SEE anything yet. But what does he SEE with his eyes just after hearing this?


    “After these things I LOOKED, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes”

    What John is LOOKING at are 144,000 people in white robes, 2 super bowl football stadiums of people in white robes from all “nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues". Now in the eyes of John… that is a great multitude “which no one could number”. And of course all the “nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues” are the 12 tribes of Israel because they are all the seed of Abraham in Christ and they are all the SERVANTS of God who get sealed.

    There will be no ethnic divisions in the Kingdom of God where you have 144,000 Jews who can sing a song nobody else can and then you have these other racially different groups who can’t sing that same song (Rev 14:3).
    Watttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt how did u derive at that

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by LT View Post
    Read verse 9... it says before me, not I heard.
    I didn’t say verse 9 says, “I heard”. If you read verse 9 it says, “After these things I looked….” It says, “I heard” in verse 4.


    You have to read it in context. First he hears (in verse 4 “ I heard”) then he sees (in verse 9 (“After these things I looked….”).

    That’s how you have to read it to understand it. John doesn’t hear about the 144,000 then a completely different group comes out of nowhere called the great multitude and then he doesn’t hear about the 144,000 again until 7 chapters later in Chapter 14.

    Notice you don’t get 11,875 from one tribe and 12,125 from another until you reach the number because it doesn’t really matter. Why the divisions are equal and that total number is used I do not know but there’s a meaning behind those divisions and that number… I believe it’s more figurative that an actual count although it may be both.
    Last edited by Rockbysea; November 20th, 2013 at 10:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Are there any solid teachers that you would suggest I look into for a concise description of this view?
    Not a single one, not even myself, just the guys in scripture.
    You're all alone with God on this one.

    "To which of the saints will you turn?"

    "Get thee hence, and turn thee eastward, and hide thyself by the brook "solitude", that is before "discernment".
    And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there."
    The ravens are all the people you observe teaching dark unclean religion.
    Their bread is "how it all ends" and meat is "genuine experience"

    If you read every word like it is going on inside you at the moment, and limit self condemnation to a means of self correction, limit self exaltation to simply helping others understand, you'll get that thunder, lightning and earthquake everyone keeps mistakenly looking outwardly for, and you'll find yourself re-reading the whole nine yards with a much brighter view.

    Love'em all.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isdaniel View Post
    Watttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt how did u derive at that
    There are no ethnic or racial divisions in the Kingdom of God. There is only one nation, Israel and only one people: those who belong to Christ. The reason why people create two groups is because people think that God shows favoritism to people according to their ethnicity and that there’s a special plan of salvation for the Jews that’s separate from everybody else.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by LT View Post
    The Scripture says that they came out of the Great Tribulation. This seems pretty clear that these are Tribulation Saints, not the raptured Church. If you believe in a seven-year Tribulation, this verse is horribly confusing. A great multitude of Tribulation saints that is innumerable? Sounds like ALL of the redeemed, not just from a 7-year period.
    From what I've gathered from Scripture, we've been in a 2000+ year Tribulation period, so this scene describes all the believers who have died. Some say it is only the martyrs, but I think they are a separate group.
    It was a good study though.
    Like the rest of Revelation, this section is topical, not chronological. This scene likely describes a single moment as Christ is descending to earth
    Also, what too many people neglect is that, John did not see the future, but saw a vision. The things he recorded are not images of the future, but imagery symbolizing the future.
    LT, Rev 7 is clear, this group isn't from any non specific tribulation period of up to 2,000 years. The Word says, "Great Tribulation." This paring appears only 3 times in the whole Bible (Mat 24:21, Rev 2:22 and Rev 7:14). Jesus places the Great Tribulation as beginning AFTER the Abomination of Desolation is seen. This means the Great Multitude who come out of the Great Tribulation are killed (not martyred) after the appearance of the Abomination (Antichrist).

    I say this Massive Group is not martyred because Rev 14:13 says, "Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." This implies to me that those who die before this are NOT BLESSED. If you look at Isaiah 65 you see two distinct groups of Christians, one who is blessed and one who is slayed and cursed for doing what does not delight the Lord. The timing of the earlier part of this chapter is just before the millennium thus we know it is Great Tribulation era.

    The whole central theme and purpose of Revelation is to warn Christians about what is coming, specifically not to fall for the false Christ. Then you have in Isaiah 65 four descriptions given for the cursed group; they are hungry, thirsty, ashamed and crying. Those are the exact same 4 descriptions of the great multitude in heaven in the same exact order.

    Add them up with what John tells us in Rev 2:22-23 which is a clear warning that some Christians will worship the antichrist and will be thrown into great tribulation and her children killed, and you can easily see that this is not a happy group in heaven. Even John was reluctant to talk about them.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by LT View Post
    The 144k are a separate elite group. Their purpose is not fully explained, but it is clear from the context that they are separate from the multitude.
    Read verse 9... it says before me, not I heard.
    Both of these groups are mentioned at other times, separately, in Revelation. They are never equated.
    Correct but these 2 groups in Rev 7 are compared and contrasted. The 144K are the Elect, the Great Multitude went out after the false Christ when the Lord told them not too. They were deceived.

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by John_S View Post
    WRONG - They are the martyrs who have been killed for believing in Jesus Christ.
    There is no Pre-Trib Rapture. It will NOT happen. I'm Sorry.
    I do agree with you John but Let's be nice and godly

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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by LT View Post
    The 144k are a separate elite group.

    Just another very important note that I forgot to mention:

    Notice it says, of ALL nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues… It doesn’t say, all nations, tribes, peoples and languages except the nation and peoples from the tribes of Israel who speak the Hebrew and Yiddish languages.
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    Default Re: Who Are the Multitude of Revelation Chapter 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbysea View Post

    Just another very important note that I forgot to mention:

    Notice it says, of ALL nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues… It doesn’t say, all nations, tribes, peoples and languages except the nation and peoples from the tribes of Israel who speak the Hebrew and Yiddish languages.
    Good point. The Remnant is from ALL nations, including Israel. It is sad that so many Jews have rejected Christ over the past 2k years; but with their rejection, now Gentiles have been grafted into their places on the vine.
    I am so glad that we are counted in the same reward that will be given to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as the Remnant redeemed from fallen creation, adopted as the children of God by becoming the Bride of His Son!

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