What curses of the law are we redeemed from, and what blessings of Abraham are ours?

[Ariel82]

No one really answered my question, I think.
1.Is sickness one of the curses we are redeemed from?
2.Is sickness one of the results of the curse of the law because of a child of God's sin(s)?
3.So why do Christians get sick and get diseases if Jesus bore it on the cross for us?

1. no, not until we get our new redeemed bodies see romans 8 verses 18-25

2. no, sickness is the result of having these temporal bodies that get sick and die. however again if you understood Romans 8, you would understand why there is sickness in the world.

3. You are misunderstanding that scripture, but again we would establish the meaning of Romans 8 or it would be pointless to continue a discussion.

 

[Elin]

Those in Christ are excluded from all wrath of God anywhere (Ro 5:9; 1Th 5:9),
but they are not excluded from all God's discipline (correction) of his sons (Heb 12:6).

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
By wrath I mean punishment, such as the curses mentioned in the old testament. By curses in the OT, I mean those dealing with the natural world.

Refusal to grant forgiveness when it is asked of one, as in the parable, reveals an unconverted heart which is not redeemed through faith in Jesus Christ.

Note that the master revoked the pardon/forgiveness of the debt the wicked servant was unable to pay, and delivered the servant to the tormentors until he paid the debt.

But he cannot pay a debt as long as he is in the hands of tormentors where he cannot earn wages with which to pay his debt.
So there will be no release from the tormentors, it's a permanent state.

And just as the master did not pardon/forgive the debt owed him by the wicked servant,
so the debt for sin which unconverted unbelievers in Jesus Christ owe to God will also not be pardoned/forgiven.

The parable is not about those who are saved, but about those whose hearts are not converted and saved by faith in Jesus Christ through the new birth.

Although the Holy Spirit indwells us, we may not always keep in step (Gal 5:25), or "walk" with him.
See Gal 5:16-26 for what not keeping in step (walking) with the Spirit means.

In the word of God, the curse of the law is God's wrath on sin (Ro 4:15, 5:9), which is eternal death.
(Ro 7:10-11).

Christ redeemed those who believe in him from that curse (Gal 3:13).
The redeemed are no longer subject to the curse of the law; i.e. eternal death.

Yes, I believe we are redeemed from eternal death, but that is not the only thing the curse covers, as I have been stating from the beginning.

Are you confusing the curse of the law with the curses of the Sinaitic covenant?
The curse of the law was eternal death.
The curses of the covenant were earthly discipline.

Would you say that the works of the law are about the same law as the curse of the law? Let me put it a different way. Living or doing the ten commandments would fall under works of the law, am I right? And the curse of the law is a result of not doing or living by the same law of works. Blessings and curses by God were about what happened to the people while they were living, not after they were dead and buried.

Yes, you are confusing the curse of the law, which is eternal death, with the curses of the covenant, which were earthly discipline.

And I would say what the word of God says, and that is
the curse of the law is eternal death (Ro 7:11)
because of God's wrath on sin against the law (Ro 4:15),
from which curse of condemnation to eternal death Christ redeemed us (Gal 3:13), and
which curse is effective on everyone who relies on observing the law (Gal 3:10), no exceptions.

Also, as healing does not come on the child of God automatically, neither are we automatically redeemed from the curse of the law that takes hold of a child of God while they are living.

The word of God does not present the curse of the law as sickness, but presents it as eternal death.
And eternal death "takes hold" only on those who rely on observing the law.

But repenting and confessing have a lot of bearing on my fellowship with God because of grieving his Holy Spirit (Eph 4:30),
and likewise invites the Lord's discipline of me as a son (Heb 12:4-11; Dt 8:5).

That is true but repentance and confession also has a lot to do with healing and deliverance.

How did we get from the curse of the law being eternal death to healing and deliverance from sickness?

Dt 28 is the OT Sinaitic (old) covenant, which the revelation spoken by the Son in these last
days (Heb 1:1-2) states has been made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

In the NT New Covenant, those who believe in Christ are redeemed from the curse of the law (Gal 3:13).

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Note that there is a condition to those who are not condemned. If one walks in the flesh and not after the Spirit, are they still free from the law of sin and death?Is there still no condemnation to them if they walk in the flesh?

No, the phrase, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is an appositional phrase appended to "them which are in Christ Jesus."
It is not a condition of non-condemnation.

Could we add the word curse to verse two to read like this? For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the [curse of the] law of sin and death.

No, because the "law of sin" in the NT usage is not the Mosaic law, but the controlling power of sin.
And the "law of sin and death" is God's justice where the "law of sin" results in eternal death, in contrast to God's mercy where the law of the Spirit results in eternal life.
The Mosaic law is not in mind here, so "the curse of the law" would not apply here.

And is this two separate laws that we have been made free from? One of sin, and one of eternal death.

Well actually they are cause and result, inseparably linked, rather than two separate laws.
"The wages of sin is death." (Ro 6:23)
You can't have the former without the latter.

The Israelites were not condemned to eternal punishment if they sinned. God told them what to do in the law to make a way of escape. If they didn't repent but continued on their present course of destruction, then they would be subject to eternal punishment.

You're mixing two different things together here.

The Israelites who sinned and repented were those who were saved by faith in God's promise (Ge 15:6).

The Israelites who did not repent did not have faith in God's promise and were not saved.

Look at the life of David. He made many mistakes and was judged by God with curses that affected his natural life, not his eternal destiny. Though he sinned much, he is this day in heaven. There is more than one kind of curse in the law. It's not all about eternal separation from God.

David came under God's discipline. He did not come under the curse of the law because he was saved by faith in God's promise.
In the word of God, "the curse of the law" does not refer to God's discipline, it refers to eternal death, which was the necessary consequence of being under the law which had to be kept perfectly (Dt 27:26) to avoid eternal death (Gal 3:10-11).

There is no other "curse of the law" in the word of God.
There are curses of the Sinaitic covenant, which you are confusing with the curse of the law.

 

[RedTent]

Jews were under the law.
Gentiles come to Christ to obtain GOD's graciousness just like the Israelites.

God has, from the beginning, explained that we are not "under the law" even though God has always asked us to obey. God has not changed.

In Isaiah Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Scripture goes on to say in Isaiah: Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

God has always forgiven, there has always been grace.

 

[know1]

Refusal to grant forgiveness when it is asked of one, as in the parable, reveals an unconverted heart which is not redeemed through faith in Jesus Christ.

Note that the master revoked the pardon/forgiveness of the debt the wicked servant was unable to pay, and delivered the servant to the tormentors until he paid the debt.

But he cannot pay a debt as long as he is in the hands of tormentors where he cannot earn wages with which to pay his debt.
So there will be no release from the tormentors, it's a permanent state.

And just as the master did not pardon/forgive the debt owed him by the wicked servant,
so the debt for sin which unconverted unbelievers in Jesus Christ owe to God will also not be pardoned/forgiven.

The parable is not about those who are saved, but about those whose hearts are not converted and saved by faith in Jesus Christ through the new birth.
Wow, I couldn't have done a more thorough job at tearing something apart than if I had ripped a car down to it's individual components. Good job! No really, I mean that without any sarcasm.
So who does the below verse refer to?
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
If you are a born again child of God, making God your Father, what need have you to forgive if it has no affect on your salvation? The only purpose you would have for forgiving others would be to continue to have a close walk with God according to your doctrine. No Judgement would follow.
Please explain what the below verse is talking about.
1 Corithians 11
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Judging ourselves has to do with repenting and confessing our sins that we should not be judged.
And it is clear that the judgement spoken here has to do with the chastening of the lord, not eternal condemnation along with the world.
The chastening of the lord is of course temporal, without eternal consequences.
In what ways are we chastened by God and by what means does He use?
Though we be redeemed from the curse of the law, and are free from the law of sin and death, we, God's children are judged in this world, in this life, not in the after life.
So what kind of judgements does God put on His child?

Are you confusing the curse of the law with the curses of the Sinaitic covenant?
The curse of the law was eternal death.
The curses of the covenant were earthly discipline.
Yes, you are confusing the curse of the law, which is eternal death, with the curses of the covenant, which were earthly discipline.
And I would say what the word of God says, and that is
the curse of the law is eternal death (Ro 7:11)
There is no other "curse of the law" in the word of God.
There are curses of the Sinaitic covenant, which you are confusing with the curse of the law.
This law you say I am confusing with the curses of the covenant is the same law you are using to point out eternal death, which really is spiritual death or separation from God.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died [spiritually].
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
What law is it that would tell a person they have sinned? I think the Ten Commandments would be a good place to start, don't you? You have to know about the law of God in order for sin to be revived. That's why children are exempt from eternal death or separation from God when they die early in life. Point being, the curse of the law and the curse of the covenant is one and the same law. There is no difference between the two, that's how I see it.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Isn't this the tenth commandment? And aren't the ten commandments part of the law?
So, as I was saying before, the curse of the law, not only has to do with eternal separation from God, but has earthly consequences. Part of which are listed in Deut 28.

 

[zone]

The law is good, it is Holy, it is not a curse. The curse of the law is that disobeying the law brings death, it is through Christ that we are saved from this curse.

Moses and the Prophets gave us examples of what to do to obey the law of love. Christ added the spirit of the law. Moses told us the steps we need to take to honor the Sabbath, Christ told us how to honor the Sabbath with our very being.
Joh_1:17 for the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Jamess_1:25 But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but one who does good works--this person will be blessed in what he does.

Rom_7:12 So then,the law is holy,and the commandment is holy and just and good.

Rom_7:22 For in my inner self I joyfully agree with God's law.

Rom_7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.

Rom_8:2 because the Spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Rom_8:3 What the law could not do since it was limited by the flesh, God did. He condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in flesh like ours under sin's domain, and as a sin offering,

Galatians 3:10

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written:

"Cursed is everyone

who does not continue
to do everything

written in the Book of the Law."

 

[Elin]

Refusal to grant forgiveness when it is asked of one, as in the parable, manifests an unconverted heart which has not been redeemed through faith in Jesus Christ by the grace of the new birth.That is why the parable calls that servant "wicked."
The redeemed are never called wicked.

Note that the master revoked the pardon/forgiveness of the debt the wicked servant was unable to pay, and delivered the wicked servant to the tormentors until he paid the debt.

But the wicked servant cannot pay a debt as long as he is in the hands of tormentors where he cannot earn wages with which to pay his debt.
So there will be no release of the wicked servant from the tormentors, it's a permanent state.

And just as the master did not pardon/forgive the debt owed him by the wicked servant,
so the debt for sin which unconverted unbelievers in Jesus Christ owe to God will also not be pardoned/forgiven.

The parable is not about those who are saved, but about those whose hearts are not converted and saved by faith in Jesus Christ through the new birth.

Wow, I couldn't have done a more thorough job at tearing something apart than if I had ripped a car down to it's individual components.
Good job! No really, I mean that without any sarcasm.

Is that agreement?

So who does the below verse refer to?
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
If you are a born again child of God, making God your Father, what need have you to forgive if it has no affect on your salvation? The only purpose you would have for forgiving others would be to continue to have a close walk with God according to your doctrine. No Judgement would follow.

That was addressed in my post #18 which you quoted above, after its fourth quote (here).

Please explain what the below verse is talking about.
1 Corithians 11
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Judging ourselves has to do with repenting and confessing our sins that we should not be judged.
And it is clear that the judgement spoken here has to do with the chastening of the lord, not eternal condemnation along with the world.
The chastening of the lord is of course temporal, without eternal consequences.
In what ways are we chastened by God and by what means does He use?
Though we be redeemed from the curse of the law, and are free from the law of sin and death, we, God's children are judged in this world, in this life, not in the after life.
So what kind of judgements does God put on His child?

God's children can be chastened, with various physical "setbacks."

But chastenings/discipline of the NT are in no way related to the law of the OT, which has been set aside (Heb 7:12, 18-19), nor to its curse, from which the born again are redeemed.

Are you confusing the curse of the law with the curses of the Sinaitic covenant?
The curse of the law was eternal death.
The curses of the covenant were earthly discipline.
Yes, you are confusing the curse of the law, which is eternal death, with the curses of the covenant, which were earthly discipline.
And I would say what the word of God says, and that is
the curse of the law is eternal death (Ro 7:11)
There is no other "curse of the law" in the word of God.
There are curses of the Sinaitic covenant, which you are confusing with the curse of the law.

This law you say I am confusing with the curses of the covenant is the same law you are using to point out eternal death, which really is spiritual death or separation from God.

Yes, the curse of the Mosaic law was eternal death.
The curses of the Sinaitic covenant did not include eternal death, only earthly chastisement.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died [spiritually].

Previously in Ro 5:12-19, Paul presented the fact that we are already born spiritually dead (no Holy Spirit life in one's spirit) because of the sin of Adam (Ro 5:12-19; Col 2:13), that our fallen nature (with which we were born) makes us objects of God's wrath (Eph 2:3).

So in Ro 7:9, he is not referring to the spiritual death (no Holy Spirit life in his spirit) in which he was born, but to his realization that he was condemned to eternal death by the curse of the law because of his sin.

So Paul's realization that he was condemned to eternal death by the curse of the law, is not a curse of the law, for there is only one curse of the law--eternal death.

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
What law is it that would tell a person they have sinned? I think the Ten Commandments would be a good place to start, don't you? You have to know about the law of God in order for sin to be revived. That's why children are exempt from eternal death or separation from God when they die early in life.
Point being, the curse of the law and the curse of the covenant is one and the same law. There is no difference between the two, that's how I see it.

However, that is not the way Scriptures sees it.

Scripture presents the curse (singular) of the law as eternal death,
and it presents the covenant curses (plural) as earthly chastisement,
and you will not find Scripture anywhere equating the two.

There is no Biblical basis for the curse of the law and the curses of the covenant being one and the same.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay,

I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Isn't this the tenth commandment? And aren't the ten commandments part of the law?
So, as I was saying before, the curse of the law, not only has to do with eternal separation from God, but hasearthly consequences.

It was the law itself that gave Paul knowledge of his sin.
It was not its curse, for the curse is not executed until after death, and he was still alive when the law gave him the knowledge of his sin.

So, knowledge of sin is not a curse of the law.

The curse (singular) of the law is not the same as the curses (plural) of the covenant.

And the chastenings of God's children in the NT are in no way related to the curse of the law.

 

[Ariel82]

Elin, what do you consider "curses of the covenant"?

 

[Isdaniel]

Eternal Death is one

Galatians 3:13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

[Ariel82]

Isaiah 53 is a prophecy of Jesus life and death.

It is a wonderful testimony of how God's word is fulfilled and if you compare the words of Isaiah to the gospels it is truly amazing.

[h=3]Isaiah 53[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

53 Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they[SUP][a][/SUP] made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.


[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He shall see the labor of His soul,[SUP][b][/SUP] and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

I don't see how you can twist this passage to make it about God promising YOU physical health and wellness.

Are you more beloved than Jesus who suffered, who knew grief, who knew sorrow that you think you should be spared such things when Jesus was not?

Jesus died on the cross for ours sins, so that we might be saved. He made a way for eternal salvation, not temporal comforts and fleeting wealth.

He taught wealth should be stored in Heaven through good works and not material possessions. He taught the health of the soul is of more value than the current state of the body.

 

[Ariel82]

Eternal Death is one

Galatians 3:13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

one what? example of the curse of the law?

if you follow Elin's discourse you would see that she has made a distinction between "curse of the law" and "curses of the covenant"

therefore, I do not understand your statement. perhaps it is not meant to be a response to my question. if so I apologize and will go back to skimming over this thread again.

 

[Ariel82]

Elin you said "The curses of the covenant were earthly discipline."

So would you agree with the OP that God sends illness as a form of earthly discipline?

 

[Ariel82]

Deut 28 blessings or curses are for the people of ISRAEL and have already come to pass when Babylonian took the nation of Israel into captivity. If you read the rest of the Old Testament, you would see how they turned away from God and how God punished them as He promised.

They have NOTHING to do with Christians.

To apply Deut 28 scriptures to Christians is a gross misuse of God's word.

Just read the scriptures in context and you can see it is referring to rebellious Israel and not Christians who might have strayed:

I will highlight the verses that would make no sense if you tried to take them out of context and apply them to Christians when the message was clearly to the people God took out of Eygpt:

Deut 28
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. [SUP]24 [/SUP]The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]“The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. [SUP]27 [/SUP]The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. [SUP]28 [/SUP]The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]“You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; you shall plant a vineyard, but shall not gather its grapes. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat of it; your donkey shall be violently taken away from before you, and shall not be restored to you; your sheep shall be given to your enemies, and you shall have no one to rescue them. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long; and there shall be no strength in your hand. [SUP]33 [/SUP]A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually. [SUP]34 [/SUP]So you shall be driven mad because of the sight which your eyes see. [SUP]35 [/SUP]The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]“The Lord will bring you and the king whom you set over you to a nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods—wood and stone. [SUP]37 [/SUP]And you shall become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword among all nations where the Lord will drive you.

[SUP]38 [/SUP]“You shall carry much seed out to the field but gather little in, for the locust shall consume it. [SUP]39 [/SUP]You shall plant vineyards and tend them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. [SUP]40 [/SUP]You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil; for your olives shall drop off. [SUP]41 [/SUP]You shall beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours; for they shall go into captivity. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Locusts shall consume all your trees and the produce of your land.

[SUP]43 [/SUP]“The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. [SUP]44 [/SUP]He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

[SUP]45 [/SUP]“Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. [SUP]46 [/SUP]And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever.

[SUP]47 [/SUP]“Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, [SUP]48 [/SUP]therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. [SUP]49 [/SUP]The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, [SUP]50 [/SUP]a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. [SUP]51 [/SUP]And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you.

[SUP]52 [/SUP]“They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. [SUP]53 [/SUP]You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. [SUP]54 [/SUP]The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, [SUP]55 [/SUP]so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. [SUP]56 [/SUP]The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse[SUP][a][/SUP] to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, [SUP]57 [/SUP]her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
[SUP]58 [/SUP]“If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, [SUP]59 [/SUP]then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues—great and prolonged plagues—and serious and prolonged sicknesses. [SUP]60 [/SUP]Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. [SUP]61 [/SUP]Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed. [SUP]62 [/SUP]You shall be left few in number, whereas you were as the stars of heaven in multitude, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God. [SUP]63 [/SUP]And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

[SUP]64 [/SUP]“Then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known—wood and stone. [SUP]65 [/SUP]And among those nations you shall find no rest, nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul. [SUP]66 [/SUP]Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. [SUP]67 [/SUP]In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’ because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

[SUP]68 [/SUP]“And the Lord will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.’ And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”

you can take a few verses out of context and twist them to suit man made doctrine.

however if you examine them in context you would get a clearer picture of what God's message truly is and to whom it was directed and How it came to pass.

 

[know1]

Is that agreement?
Please, don't be silly with me. I just thought it was well done. As far as I can tell, we don't agree on anything.

 

[know1]

That was addressed in my post #18 which you quoted above, after its fourth quote (here).

No, I think you have missed something, the original quote was from Matt 18, the second one I used was in Mark 11.
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
God's children can be chastened, with various physical "setbacks."
Unlike Matt 18, this verse is addressing the child of God, calling God their Father. Again, if the Child of God or Christian fails to forgive she/he will not be forgiven by God.

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, in the New and Old Testament, we have come to understand clearly that Abraham and Sarah are one flesh and they are Father and Mother of all nation, to Jews and Gentiles. Also because of his faith in the Living GOD, the same GOD who proclaimed Abraham, in HIS very own Word (CHRIST), Abraham as the 'Father of Faith'.

GOD said to Abraham; "I will make an Everlasting Covenant with one of your 'offspring'............................"

The blessing for the Gentiles is that even though they were only able to receive the crumbs that fell from the children of Israel's table but automatically they who believe have also become the part takers of the common wealth of Israel that is according to GOD'S promise and Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Israel (Jacob), even Everlasting Life in the new Heaven and earth to come, only through that one offspring called 'CHRIST' SON of the LIVING GOD.

GOD sacrificed HIS only begotten SON for a human faithful friend called Abraham, as HE had planned that HE would fulfill the promise through Abraham and Sarah's 'descendant', that is by;

a) First, delivering Abraham and Sarah from barrenness.

b) Second, HE made all sure and HE fulfilled the Everlasting Covenant with one and through one of Abraham's offspring who is JESUS, born in Bethlehem, son of Joseph and virgin Mary, who grew to put on and take on as the CHRIST, SON of the LIVING GOD and fulfilled faithfully the promise of GOD to Abraham and also established that promised Covenant forever and ever and these all have now come to past, even till today, is to be a born again Gentile's unworthy and undeserving witnessing of the Living Lovely Truth, to the ignorant others remaining in the world.

That is why it is clearly written to the Gentile Christian, not to be proud of themselves, who have become only 'part takers', for now grafted to the New Israel tree and later is possible to be cut off again and be left to be withered.

As it is written; "If you have ears, listen and pay attention."

May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless all those who are with such ears, to be led to obedience in spirit and truth worship.

 

[know1]

I don't see how you can twist this passage to make it about God promising YOU physical health and wellness.

I gather you are referring to me when you mentioned twisting a passage of scripture?
If anyone twisted it, it's Matthew. I am just going from what he wrote, and it is the word of God just like Isaiah is.
(KJV) Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
(EMTV) so that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying: "He Himself took our infirmities, and bore our diseases."
(ERV) So Jesus made clear the full meaning of what Isaiah the prophet said: "He took away our diseases and carried away our sicknesses."
(ESV) This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: "He took our illnesses and bore our diseases."
(GNB) He did this to make come true what the prophet Isaiah had said, "He himself took our sickness and carried away our diseases."
I'm not the one who wrote it that way first, Matthew is. I'm just reading it like it is written, like I do all scripture. It doesn't matter who he's quoting, if the book of Matthew is the word of God along with the rest of it, then I'm going to accept what I read and not try to make it say something it isn't. The verse clearly says, that Jesus took and/or bore our sicknesses, illnesses, infirmities, feebleness, and diseases. The same kind Jesus healed when He was living on the earth. How can anyone say I am the one twisting scripture, when I am the only one accepting it as it is written.
The fact is, this verse in the bible, (which is scripture and like all scripture, it is truth, God's word, and has come to pass) totally blows all doctrines of sicknesses and disease as being God's will, out of the water. The reason why you have to refute this verse is because it proves that sicknesses and diseases are not God's will for His children and that Jesus bore these curses in His own body on the cross to remove them from His people. If God's will was for His children to get sick, then He would be fighting against the work of Jesus on the cross and Himself, unless one accepts what is written in the above verse. I am not the one twisting a passage of scripture around trying to make it fit my doctrine. On the contrary, my doctrine is based on the bible, as it is written.
Like everyone else, I can see that Matthew wrote something a little different than what Isaiah wrote, but it is scripture just the same. It is very clear what he said, and it is in plain English. And it is not hard to see if one would only let go of their church doctrine that says otherwise.

 

[know1]

No, I think you have missed something, the original quote was from Matt 18, the second one I used was in Mark 11.
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Unlike Matt 18, this verse is addressing the child of God, calling God their Father. Again, if the Child of God or Christian fails to forgive she/he will not be forgiven by God.

Just making a correction.

 

[Ariel82]

[h=3]God promise is for the future after the destruction of THIS Earth and THESE earthly temporal bodies. The curse of Death will be destroyed as well.

Revelation 21[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]All Things Made New[/h]21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then I, John,[SUP][a][/SUP] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.

 

[Elin]

Elin you said "The curses of the covenant were earthly discipline."

So would you agree with the OP that God sends illness as a form of earthly discipline?

That could be included in physical "setbacks," but I'm reluctant to assign chastening to particular events since I have no word from God that any particular one is.

 

[Elin]

Elin, what do you consider "curses of the covenant"?

Lev 26:14-39.