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Heb 6 in the context of the end of ch. 5 has the author lamenting that his readers were immature and not progressing in their understanding. In this context the author writes that one can "fall away" from progressing in the faith. If I, as a believer, choose to reject my heavenly blessings, I can't be renewed to repentance without a chastening from God, without some sort of fiery burning that can bring about renewal. Farmers burn their fields not to never use them again, but precisely so they will be useful again. God is the farmer and the field are his people, he responds to them much like he did to the Israelites who obeyed or disobeyed the Mosaic covenant. When they obeyed, blessing, when they disobeyed, cursing and captivity. And the idea of burning parallels Heb. 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom [his] father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
And 28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29 for our God is a consuming fire.
The idea of God as a consuming fire is not to consume the wicked, it is in consuming and burning away the wasted efforts on our part to offer an acceptable sacrifice. It refers to the discipline of God to bring us to an acceptable service. Just like the Christian's works being burned up, yet he himself is saved, yet so as by fire.
Remember the verse where Jesus said "with God all things are possible" Mk 10:27. Why is it impossible from a human standpoint? Because there is no other way, there is no other truth. I personally know a few Christians who have "fallen away" from fellowship with God, I've done it myself. It's impossible to say, "Partake of the heavenly gift, enjoy the Holy Spirit, have faith again" without there being a major change in their heart, usually as a result of God lovingly disciplining them to bring them back to renewal with Him. In this way they can have "full assurance of hope until the end" (6:11)
And 28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29 for our God is a consuming fire.
The idea of God as a consuming fire is not to consume the wicked, it is in consuming and burning away the wasted efforts on our part to offer an acceptable sacrifice. It refers to the discipline of God to bring us to an acceptable service. Just like the Christian's works being burned up, yet he himself is saved, yet so as by fire.
Remember the verse where Jesus said "with God all things are possible" Mk 10:27. Why is it impossible from a human standpoint? Because there is no other way, there is no other truth. I personally know a few Christians who have "fallen away" from fellowship with God, I've done it myself. It's impossible to say, "Partake of the heavenly gift, enjoy the Holy Spirit, have faith again" without there being a major change in their heart, usually as a result of God lovingly disciplining them to bring them back to renewal with Him. In this way they can have "full assurance of hope until the end" (6:11)
A
Tiro, what do you mean by "Fanatical Christian"?
that you were like the Pharisees trying to obey the letter of the law without truly understanding the Spirit?
I truly wonder what you think being Christian means?
Before you turned to Buddhism, did you pray daily?
Did you walk with the Holy Spirit and display the fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness and self control?
Did you read your Bible? did you understand what you were reading? Did God change your heart of stone to one that knew your sin and your need for a savior?
What exactly do you mean when you say you were a "Fanatical Christian"?
that you felt self-righteous and beat people over the head with the Bible if they disagreed with you? That you did your alms before a crowd? that you were able to hold up your 'good works" and use them to step up higher than those around you?
Just wondering what are your thoughts now?
that you were like the Pharisees trying to obey the letter of the law without truly understanding the Spirit?
I truly wonder what you think being Christian means?
Before you turned to Buddhism, did you pray daily?
Did you walk with the Holy Spirit and display the fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness and self control?
Did you read your Bible? did you understand what you were reading? Did God change your heart of stone to one that knew your sin and your need for a savior?
What exactly do you mean when you say you were a "Fanatical Christian"?
that you felt self-righteous and beat people over the head with the Bible if they disagreed with you? That you did your alms before a crowd? that you were able to hold up your 'good works" and use them to step up higher than those around you?
Just wondering what are your thoughts now?
From the context of the whole letter, the author was writing to Hebrews who were considering returning to Judaism because of the ostracization and persecution by their familes and friends.
That's a little more than "not progressing in their understanding," or not "progressing in the faith."
Heb 6:4-6 is a warning against falling away from Christ.
The writer warns them that if they return to Judaism, they will be rejecting the Messiah and his sacrifice for sin, and there is no other sacrifice by which their sin will be forgiven (6:4-6), so they will die in their sin and guilt.
In the context of 11:26-39, the writer is spurring them on to remain in the faith and not to shrink back to Judaism (vv. 35-36).
In v. 39, those "who shrink back" are those who return to Judaism, therefore, are not saved, and are destroyed (loss of eternal well-being).
So Heb 11:39 is not referring to those in the faith, but to those who have shrunk back from the faith and returned to Judaism, thereby rejecting the Messiah and his sacrifice once-for-all sin.
That's a little more than "not progressing in their understanding," or not "progressing in the faith."
Heb 6:4-6 is a warning against falling away from Christ.
The writer warns them that if they return to Judaism, they will be rejecting the Messiah and his sacrifice for sin, and there is no other sacrifice by which their sin will be forgiven (6:4-6), so they will die in their sin and guilt.
In the context of 11:26-39, the writer is spurring them on to remain in the faith and not to shrink back to Judaism (vv. 35-36).
In v. 39, those "who shrink back" are those who return to Judaism, therefore, are not saved, and are destroyed (loss of eternal well-being).
So Heb 11:39 is not referring to those in the faith, but to those who have shrunk back from the faith and returned to Judaism, thereby rejecting the Messiah and his sacrifice once-for-all sin.
T
What I mean by Fanatical is.. I went to Church every Sunday and Wednesday. I read and studied the Bible every day. I fellowshipped with other Christains. I prayed Daily. I listened to Christian Music I tried to witness about Jesus. I always talked about Jesus with my friends. Then I just fell away..
A
With the Romans 8:35-39, I believe Paul was encouraging us to take on the same mindset he had about being determined to not allow anything to separate us from the love of Christ. It is clear Paul was not going to allow anything or anyone to separate him from God and named all of those things that could play a factor if we let it. But he was telling us...don't allow it. Don't allow those things to separate you from Christ, He set us free and we do not have to allow these things to separate us...take a look at II Cor 4:8-10, where he also reiterated how hard it was going to get for us as Christians sometimes, but we still are not forsaken by Christ: We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For the Heb 6 scriptures...I think you are referring to verses 4-6? First, we know that we can repent and be forgiven of our sins (God's grace is great and he is long suffering), but I believe in this instance Paul is referring to that individual, or former Christian individual, who truly knew Christ, received the Holy Ghost, was living holy, but allowed their flesh to overtake them willfully and continually (which could happen to any Christian if he/she stops doing what it takes to be able to resist the devil). That individual kept tempting Christ, meaning they knew God was loving, had grace and would forgive, so they had the mindset of...well, I'll go a head and sin because I know the Lord will forgive me. That individual made a habit of this and eventually it backfired. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents I Cor 10:9. This is why Paul also tells us not to take advantage of God's grace in Romans 6:1-2, there is danger in that: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:28, but go on and read all of that through verse 32. Lastly, further in Hebrews, 10:26, Paul warns of that same type of individual from Hebrews 6, who continues to allow sin in their lives: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, God knows the heart of each of us, so He is really the only one who can truly judge us properly. You can be a true Christian today, but allow sin to overtake you tomorrow, truly repent and be redeemed...BUT, if you keep doing this on purpose (tempting God), God will judge you when He sees how your heart has turned. This is why Paul tells us to die daily (meaning kill that flesh that wants to sin) on a daily basis. We can't live tomorrow off of that great spiritual day we had today. We have to start all over again each day to live holy one day at a time.
E
You have heb 6 wrong.
Hebrews six says if (it were possible) to fall away, we never could get back.
Remember, the book of Hebrews is talking about going back to law. Which teaches yuo can fall away, then be renewed by the works of the law.
Why would we go back to a gospel which says you can fall away? that is the context of the passage.
Hebrews six says if (it were possible) to fall away, we never could get back.
Remember, the book of Hebrews is talking about going back to law. Which teaches yuo can fall away, then be renewed by the works of the law.
Why would we go back to a gospel which says you can fall away? that is the context of the passage.
"(it were possible)" are your words not those of the bible.
One thing that is often said about Christianity in the USA - it's equally true in the UK - is that it is 3000 miles wide but only 3 inches deep. One consequence of it is that children are scandalously taught about Christianity such that even though they may go to Sunday school etc, they end up knowing hardly anything. I went to an Anglican churches for most of my life until aged 16, yet I learned almost nothing of Christianity. Mind you my parents were not real Christians. I myself was "confirmed" as a Christian in the Anglican rite aged 16 but then "stopped being one" until I was 19, for I was introduced to "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" when I was 17 that made Christianity out to be part of a fertility cult, and it seemed more credible than the dry, empty, liturgy that I had been forced to conform to up until then, but actually knew nothing about.
It was only when I learned that Christianity was a personal religion, when a very down-to-earth evangelist bought it down from its lofty high-church status to being very much a personal religion, that I began to believe for real. God is willing to overlook ignorance when young and bring us back when seduced by a seducing spirit. I assume that in your case too, fanaticism was not exactly matched by knowledge of your subject.
One thing that is often said about Christianity in the USA - it's equally true in the UK - is that it is 3000 miles wide but only 3 inches deep. One consequence of it is that children are scandalously taught about Christianity such that even though they may go to Sunday school etc, they end up knowing hardly anything. I went to an Anglican churches for most of my life until aged 16, yet I learned almost nothing of Christianity. Mind you my parents were not real Christians. I myself was "confirmed" as a Christian in the Anglican rite aged 16 but then "stopped being one" until I was 19, for I was introduced to "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" when I was 17 that made Christianity out to be part of a fertility cult, and it seemed more credible than the dry, empty, liturgy that I had been forced to conform to up until then, but actually knew nothing about.
It was only when I learned that Christianity was a personal religion, when a very down-to-earth evangelist bought it down from its lofty high-church status to being very much a personal religion, that I began to believe for real. God is willing to overlook ignorance when young and bring us back when seduced by a seducing spirit. I assume that in your case too, fanaticism was not exactly matched by knowledge of your subject.
E
It is called using scripture to interpret scripture.
The law says it is possible to fall away, and then be renewed.
The author of hebrews is fighting this argument.
The word if always has three possible interpretations in scripture.
if - maybe you will, maybe you wont
if - but you will not
if - and you will
the second interpretation means if if were possible for you to do this, then .......
thus it is not a misinterpretation to use this as a possible interpretation.
Not to mention the fact. as shown. Scipture says those saved will NEVER fall away, or NEVER be lost.
thus, using scripture to interpret scripture. My interpretation would be correct. Because it is impossible for someone truly saved to fall away.
Which again. if we read further. we will see it.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; [SUP]8 [/SUP]but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Near to being cursed. does nto means being cursed. It is like paul in first corinthians, teaching that some will get to heaven and recieve wood hey and straw. (no reward) yet still be saved, but as through by fire.
Same wording. same outcome.
The law says it is possible to fall away, and then be renewed.
The author of hebrews is fighting this argument.
The word if always has three possible interpretations in scripture.
if - maybe you will, maybe you wont
if - but you will not
if - and you will
the second interpretation means if if were possible for you to do this, then .......
thus it is not a misinterpretation to use this as a possible interpretation.
Not to mention the fact. as shown. Scipture says those saved will NEVER fall away, or NEVER be lost.
thus, using scripture to interpret scripture. My interpretation would be correct. Because it is impossible for someone truly saved to fall away.
Which again. if we read further. we will see it.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; [SUP]8 [/SUP]but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Near to being cursed. does nto means being cursed. It is like paul in first corinthians, teaching that some will get to heaven and recieve wood hey and straw. (no reward) yet still be saved, but as through by fire.
Same wording. same outcome.
I find High Calvinism very tedious - a hair splitting exercise that detracts from the necessary study of the law. Of course those predestined to be saved cannot fall away as they are predestined, although as someone rightly pointed out, Christ is on record as threatening to blot out people's named from the book of life. (Rev 22;19), showing that people can forfeit what has been promised to them. The fact is that a person can experience all the joys, fruits and spiritual benefits of temporal salvation yet fall away. Paul cites serveral examples. To say they were never saved is pointless. The fact is that to all intents and purposes they appeared to be saved. Just like the Israelites in the desert, who all crossed the red sea and yet failed to ultimately make it to the promised land because of rebellion, temptation and laziness.
E
1. I am not calvanist.
2. The law never saved anyone. That is what the whole book of Hebrews was written for, to let us have no doubt of this.
You ignore half of scripture.
The most important aspect is John. Who state they (those who depart the church) were never of us, For if they were they would have remained.
Someone who is truely saved will never "depart" the faith and reject Christ for another gospel.
2. The law never saved anyone. That is what the whole book of Hebrews was written for, to let us have no doubt of this.
You ignore half of scripture.
The most important aspect is John. Who state they (those who depart the church) were never of us, For if they were they would have remained.
Someone who is truely saved will never "depart" the faith and reject Christ for another gospel.
N
Your problem that you have of Romans 8 and Hebrews 6 are not the same, Romans 8 shows the stability of ones faith to God, whereas Hebrews 6 referring those who have received the knowledge of the truth, it is impossible to renew them again if they willfully turned back from Christ seems they will re-crucify Christ afresh and put him to an open shame, that corroborates with Hebrews 10; 26 for if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth there remain no more sacrifice for sin. I hope that answered your question. God bless Nick 1939.
L
saying you were a Christian doesn't mean you had the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. Read verse 4 and 5 very carefully. If you fell away and turned your back on Christ, then you never truly tasted the Spirit.... or there is the possible case that you did reject the Spirit after being filled, but then you wouldn't be questioning this now, because you would be in full denial and rejection.
I think Heb. 6 can definitely pertain to you Tiro, I don't have a reason to doubt that you were a faithful Christian, and yet you fell away. With God all things are possible and He can renew you to repentance. But this is not a human-driven possibility. God may be chastising you, "burning you," so to speak, so He can restore you to repentance and to tasting of God's word again. Be encouraged that you can be restored again. Things that accompany salvation can be yours again. The beauty of the Father is that He is the one waiting to wrap you up in His arms, kiss you, throw a party for you, give you status and honor and blessing, when you His wayward Son comes home again. I'm not the brother who would resent you coming back to the faith, welcome back, I'll party with you.
E
I disagree. Heb 6 talks about people who were steeped in one religion. Learning of the truth of God, and maybe even joining it for awhile. But since their faith was just mere belief, They (as a dfog always returns to his vomit) returned to what they always knew (what they really had faith in.
The author is making a valid statement, If you came out of the lie once, and tried something else, and did not have enough faith to stay in it, but returned to what you really had faith. Your never going to return to the truth.
the crucifying the son of God again is in relation again to the law. CHrist died once to die for all. If we say we can lose salvation (which the law does) then your saying Christ's death was insufficient, thus putting him to open shame
The author is making a valid statement, If you came out of the lie once, and tried something else, and did not have enough faith to stay in it, but returned to what you really had faith. Your never going to return to the truth.
the crucifying the son of God again is in relation again to the law. CHrist died once to die for all. If we say we can lose salvation (which the law does) then your saying Christ's death was insufficient, thus putting him to open shame
A
that's a lot of "I"'s in the above testimony.
during that time what did God do in your life?
Being Christian is not about what we do, but what God has done for us through His son.
its is about walking with the Holy Spirit, learning His ways.
You can go through the motions of playing church, but did it transform your heart?
Did you have the Fruits of walking with the Holy Spirit? Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, self control?
when you prayed, did you have your prayers answered? Did you feel that peace and joy and love that comes with having God's presence in your life?
during that time what did God do in your life?
Being Christian is not about what we do, but what God has done for us through His son.
its is about walking with the Holy Spirit, learning His ways.
You can go through the motions of playing church, but did it transform your heart?
Did you have the Fruits of walking with the Holy Spirit? Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, self control?
when you prayed, did you have your prayers answered? Did you feel that peace and joy and love that comes with having God's presence in your life?
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Peace be with you and in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST your hard time is broken and impart Good time.
Truly nothing can separate us from GOD'S Love provided we 'abide' in the words and in the love of the Living MESSIAH as written in the New Covenant, that sums up the two commandments of JESUS;
First, is to love your GOD with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
Second, is to love you neighbor.
Hebrews 6 truly talks about, that one can be also separated from GOD's Love and impossible to get it back, if that one continues in ignorance because being not taught, have not learned and not able to discern, how is to abide in the MESSIAH's Living Words of instructions, written in the New Covenant.
Or one who is already knowing and discerning and reminded them all time and time again but have been choked up with the thorn bushes, living to the necessity and pleasure of this earth and their fruit never ripens.
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you to excel in spirit and truth.
Truly nothing can separate us from GOD'S Love provided we 'abide' in the words and in the love of the Living MESSIAH as written in the New Covenant, that sums up the two commandments of JESUS;
First, is to love your GOD with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
Second, is to love you neighbor.
Hebrews 6 truly talks about, that one can be also separated from GOD's Love and impossible to get it back, if that one continues in ignorance because being not taught, have not learned and not able to discern, how is to abide in the MESSIAH's Living Words of instructions, written in the New Covenant.
Or one who is already knowing and discerning and reminded them all time and time again but have been choked up with the thorn bushes, living to the necessity and pleasure of this earth and their fruit never ripens.
May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you to excel in spirit and truth.