Jews wanting Christians to become Jews and leave Christ?

[thefightinglamb]

Kind of harsh to "messenic Jews" but I think that is straightforwardly what they are trying to do...

So...I was in church on sunday at the World Outreach Worship Center (a pentecostal church) in Yorktown, VA when they let a women Jewish bishop preach this last sunday....

First question, yes it was greeted with aplause in the church when it was announced that she was the first women bishop ever in her sect of Judaism...

Anyway, I think she went off the deep end and wants Christians to get obsessed with the law instead of loving Jesus Christ...

She went on about so many strange things...the place where I actually walked out is when she called the church to repent of using the name Jesus Christ and accept the name of Yeshua instead...I think that is blatently rediculuos...the new testament in the manuscripts we have was mainly written in greek, hence Jesus Christ would have been a name he would have actually probably have gone by...remember the Jews were under Roman rule and most Jews at this time spoke like three languages, all of which they would have been familiar with...the whole church basically came forward as if they needed to accept Jesus Christ again, I stod up, reverenced the church, then walked straight out, baffled by a belief I have to go find another church...

But this was NOT the most extreme thing she said, unlike a lot of people that connect the beast in revelations to the catholic church, she actually connected it directly to any church that uses the name Jesus Christ instead of Yeshua, and went even farther to say that in the end times when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, those who refuse to follow Jewish law will be goats and those who do follow Jewish law will be lambs.

She even had a 'scam' that is rather prevelant like a cancer in a lot of Christian churches already...if you do not agree with her she had the trump card of saying "Those who bless me will be blessed and those who curse me will be cursed." meaning-- if you agree with everything I say God will bless you but otherwise you are cursed...I have seen this verse used by sketchy pastors to try to get individual members of the congregation to by him a car or a new house, or a large Christmas bonus...and such other frivolties...

The thing that bothers me the most is there is something things that are poignantly clear in the Bible that they would have and still challenge...such as the verse where by Jesus' own words he declared all foods clean when he said "it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person but what comes out of the heart." Peter was also a little too worried about Jewish customs on two occassions, one when an angel told him to eat all kinds of animals (was this a deceptive spirit? I think not) and secondly when he drew back from the gentiles when he saw Jews enter a congregation...I am honestly sure that unless it was so clear that circumcision was not needed they would still be demanding foreskins...but wait at the messenic Jewish congregation that meets in the church building of this congregation I have heard that they DO STILL DEMAND FORESKINS and then most of the outer image.

There is a reason why people that you think might be good people don't accept Jesus Christ...it is not hard to do, quite simple, and just requires that you accept what has been done for you...

And likewise, there is a reason why "messenic Jews" won't accept the name Christians...they are still really at heart blinded Jews and not Christians...this reminds me of Paul who even states that if he gives thanks for what he eats why should he be condemned, and also Paul's rebuke of Peter whom he said 'ate like gentiles and not like Jews.' Obviously they has left there Jewish dogma to accept Christ...

I believe it is in Colossians that it states not to be concerned about a new moon or a sabbath or a holy day, because these are just symbols of which Jesus Christ is the reality, but as the sabbath has already been dealt with in depth I think I wish this not to get side tracked with the foolishness of those who demand 'rest'...

I was going to title this why I think what most people call 'replacement theology' is the truth...but I think this title is more clear...

So start the rampage, be considerate, open and free from lies, and lets have a "discussion."

Show us the way and law of your love, O Lord our Savior
your Holy will.

tony

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I have studied linguistics, and Jesus Christ is the Name, the name we have been given, doubt not this, His word is true.

 

[MahogonySnail]

It's not surprising to find the same heresies alive today that Paul encountered and wrote extensively against. The majority of NT scriptures are not so much portraying the life of Christ , what he said, what he did, but the majority are actually Paul's writings where he is defending the faith and arguing against Judaizing and things like this.

While Jesus isn't his real name nor is it pronounced properly, it doesn't matter.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

While Jesus isn't his real name nor is it pronounced properly, it doesn't matter.

'Snail, Jesus is His real Name as far as English pronounciation is concerned, to say Jesus Christ is correct, there is no doubt about that, lets be absolutely clear. The New Testament is written in Greek, all the Apostles spoke Greek and that is what they wrote in. In Koine Greek His Name is Iesous, this is correctly translated through Latin into English as Jesus, and this is the Name you need to know, there is no other Name, Jesus Christ is it, this is most important, if we are to pronounce His Name today in English it is Jesus Christ, that is it, no doubt, ignore this at your own peril...

 

[MahogonySnail]

lol , in bible times they did not call Jesus "geee zuz ". The bible names have important meanings but the name Jesus doesn't have any sort of meaning in English. Ignore that at your own peril.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

lol , in bible times they did not call Jesus "geee zuz ". The bible names have important meanings but the name Jesus doesn't have any sort of meaning in English. Ignore that at your own peril.

Don't disrespect His Name, that's called blasphemy...

 

[MahogonySnail]

I don't care what it is called, the fact is that in bible times they did not say "Geee zuz" . In old english they simply called Him "the healer". Ignore it at your own peril.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I don't care what it is called, the fact is that in bible times they did not say "Geee zuz" . In old english they simply called Him "the healer". Ignore it at your own peril.

There is only one Name you can be healed by or saved by His Name is Jesus Christ, do you have a problem with this? He has personal name by which His diciples knew Him by as we do today, this is the name He has given, it is essential for salvation, do not lose sight of this...

 

[MahogonySnail]

Strictly speaking Christ is not a name it's a title. You think it's His last name don't you? ROFL. The name Jesus was only in use since the 17th centuary in English. It's like if you called someone named Brian originally, then called him Brean, then eventually Brent. That's what we're talking about here. Obviously Brent is not the same name as Brian, but we know who it is so it doesn't matter.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Strictly speaking Christ is not a name it's a title. You think it's His last name don't you? ROFL. The name Jesus was only in use since the 17th centuary in English. It's like if you called someone named Brian originally, then called him Brean, then eventually Brent. That's what we're talking about here. Obviously Brent is not the same name as Brian, but we know who it is so it doesn't matter.

His Name is not Brian, He has a personal Name, this is essential, as I have told you so, if I was to tell you otherwise I would be a liar, but I give you His name, and you know it so, why blaspheme for mere sophistry, it is not worth it, I tell you in all honesty.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Strictly speaking the name Jesus is a title also as His personal name is the same as God's, "I AM".

Most countries in the world pronounce the derivative of Yeshuah such as the Chinese who say Ye su.

You would think that if you truly love a person such as Christ, you would want to try and pronounce and spell their name properly, rather than settle for post 17th centuary mis-transliterations such as GEEEE zuz. Ultimately pronouncing and spelling the name properly such as Yeshuah is about respect. It's a soft J sound in Jesus also, Yesus.

 

[Thaddaeus]

I don't care what it is called, the fact is that in bible times they did not say "Geee zuz" . In old english they simply called Him "the healer". Ignore it at your own peril.

names do change in translations of languages but mean the same person: we call lucifer, satan or the devil, the great deceiver, but it still means lucifer. here is your proof from scripture, do with it what ye want.

Re 9:11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the HEBREW tongue is Abaddon, but in the GREEK tongue hath his name Apollyon.

in hebrew he had one name in greek there was another name but same demon, same angel.

God knows your heart if you call upon the name of the LORD, which is what he has been called in hebrew , greek and all other languages. Jesus Christ, He Is my Lord.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

names do change in translations of languages but mean the same person: we call lucifer, satan or the devil, the great deceiver, but it still means lucifer. here is your proof from scripture, do with it what ye want.

Re 9:11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the HEBREW tongue is Abaddon, but in the GREEK tongue hath his name Apollyon.

in hebrew he had one name in greek there was another name but same demon, same angel.

God knows your heart if you call upon the name of the LORD, which is what he has been called in hebrew , greek and all other languages. Jesus Christ, He Is my Lord.

Excellent and true, Jesus Christ is Lord!

 

[suaso]

My assumptions:

Latin: Iesus. "Yay-soos"
Spanish:Jesus. "Hey-zus"
English: Jesus. "Geez us"

I think the common trend on this forum is to call Our Lord "Yeshua," which is probably closer to what he was used to his momma hollering to him when it was time to eat. My theory is that when it came time to translate his name into Latin for the Empire to learn, instead of something closer to Yeshua, like "Iesua," we got "Iesus." This was probably so that his name would have a male gender in the Latin language, as calling him Iesua would have seemed odd, as it would be saying the male messiah had a girl's name. That's my theory, and I have absolutely no idea if it is correct. But I do believe, as modern English speakers, we have simply inflected our language in such a way that the letters that make up the name Jesus are pronounces "Geez us.'

When it boils down to it, I don't believe we are condemning ourselves for saying "Geezus" or whatever. When you say it, everyone knows you mean the Son of God, and Jesus is God, so I'm sure he knows it too.

Here's some stuff I easily yanked off of wikipedia:

"Jesus" (pronounced /ˈdʒiːzəs/) is a transliteration, occurring in a number of languages and based on the Latin Iesus, of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs), itself a Hellenisation of the Hebrew יהושע (Yehoshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic ישוע (Yeshua, Joshua), meaning "YHWH rescues" or "YHWH delivers".[25] "Christ" (pronounced /ˈkraɪst/) is a title derived from the Greek Χριστός (Christós), meaning the "Anointed One", a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Messiah).[26] A "Messiah" is a king anointed at God's direction or with God's approval, and Christians identify Jesus as the one foretold by Hebrew prophets.

 

[socperkins]

You guys are really getting caught up on the unimportant stuff. I'm wearing a shirt right now that has about 75 different names for Christ. He knows what we call him, there is no absolute name.

As far as the original post, I think it is unfortunate that that woman steering so many people off track. I just hope it doesn't cost anybody their salvation.

 

[Jordan9]

As far as I understand it, Judaism doesn't evangelize. Then again, this sect of Judaism had a female rabbi, so they could be much different than orthodox Jews.

At any rate, I guess that's why Peter told us to "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." (1 Pet. 3:15)

 

[Dotann]

socperkins

I am with you. we are way off track. This is how Satan (or what eve name you which to identify him) takes control of the situation to turn the important subject away from where it should be .

Stay firm to the foundation and focus on Him and He will lead us to the truth. We can all be led away very easily with worldy ideas and thinking.

I wonder when we are going to get it?

 

[Definition_Christ]

I have studied linguistics, and Jesus Christ is the Name, the name we have been given, doubt not this, His word is true.

Actually Jesus is a translation, it's like me calling you by your Spanish name. Jesus was a first century Rabbi so His name was not "Jesus" which is a an English translation. His name was and still is Yeshua. Yeshua means salvation, and Christ is not Yeshua's last name. Christ is the English way to say Christos in Greek which means "the anointed". So Christ is actually a double translation and it means Messiah.

Revelation 9:11
And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

אבדון (Abaddon) actually has Hebrew meaning. It means "destruction". I don't think the Greek has any meaning behind it but I could be wrong. Anyway.. I don't see how that verse proves anything.

I realize that God knows your heart and you can call Him whatever you want in whatever language you want, but Yeshua is Jesus' personal name. Is it essential for salvation? No... But I wasn't the one who made the thread.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Actually Jesus is a translation, it's like me calling you by your Spanish name. Jesus was a first century Rabbi so His name was not "Jesus" which is a an English translation. His name was and still is Yeshua. Yeshua means salvation, and Christ is not Yeshua's last name. Christ is the English way to say Christos in Greek which means "the anointed". So Christ is actually a double translation and it means Messiah.



אבדון (Abaddon) actually has Hebrew meaning. It means "destruction". I don't think the Greek has any meaning behind it but I could be wrong. Anyway.. I don't see how that verse proves anything.

I realize that God knows your heart and you can call Him whatever you want in whatever language you want, but Yeshua is Jesus' personal name. Is it essential for salvation? No... But I wasn't the one who made the thread.

What you need to understand is that His Name was not Yeshua, it was Iesous. Jesus and the Apostles spoke Greek, Aramaic was a language known to them, but it was not the primary language spoken in Judea and surrounding areas at that time, Greek was the main language. Jesus could speak any language He wanted to and did, however His first langauge was Greek, His diciples would have known Him as Iesous, this correctly translates as Jesus in English! Mel Gibson was wrong, both Biblically and historically, Hollywood has popularized a recent modern myth that Jesus spoke Babylonian Aramaic, clearly the Devil is at work here, as Babylonian Aramaic was the language of Israel's enemies and they resented it.

 

[Brackenzee]

You're friggin' nuts, Cup of Ruin. It's one thing to dispute the claim that Jesus would have spoken Aramaic on historical grounds, but to say that Satan is behind this claim is beyond crazy.