Once saved always saved?

[tryingtofindhim]

1st off anyone know a verse in the Bible that says this. Also so anyone can ask Christ to save them and then do whatever? That doesn't seem very fair especially compared to all the martyrs in other countries who give their life to follow Christ.

well to the second part about doing whatever.
that is a false convert they were never really saved

[Maddog]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

well to the second part about doing whatever.
that is a false convert they were never really saved

That's one idea. Another is that they were a genuine convert, but can still genuinely fall into sin, even apostasy.

[Cako53]

Originally Posted by Maddog

That's one idea. Another is that they were a genuine convert, but can still genuinely fall into sin, even apostasy.

I agree with this, because I myself have done this in the past.
Acts 3:19 (NIV) "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,"
Matthew 16:24-25 (NIV) "...If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life*** will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it."
*** Some translations say soul.

[Thaddaeus]

Originally Posted by tryingtofindhim

1st off anyone know a verse in the Bible that says this. Also so anyone can ask Christ to save them and then do whatever? That doesn't seem very fair especially compared to all the martyrs in other countries who give their life to follow Christ.

'to the first part:
Joh 6:37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


Heb 13:5Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Ro 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


and many, many. more. to the second part if one truely realizes what Christ has done for you, one will not want to live any way they want but they will live their life for Christ , but please keep in mind that the Gift of God, etternal life through Jesus Christ is will, but our walk with him is a growing process , and some mature faster than others, and it is Jesus who makes the call if someone is in or not, no one in here should make that call,
the workers that worked all day and were payed the same as those that only labored the last hour , didn't think it was fair either both received what they were promised. if the maytyrs get the promised of eternal life fulfilled to them, there would be no reason why they should feel they were treated unfairly.

Ro 12:3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

[MahogonySnail]

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,

[roaringkitten]

"For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off." Psalm 37:28

Dont believe anyone who says a born again Christian can lose his/her salvation. That is a lie of the devil. I show you why:

Eternal Security- Eternal security a fundamental truth of the Christian faith

[roaringkitten]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,

That verse does not teach a born again Christian can lose his salvation......There are NO verses in the Bible that says a Christian can lose his/her salvation.

Well, God's not fair. Just ask Job. Do you see anything fair in the book of Job. Once saved, always saved isn't in the Bible and I'm not even sure either of us can understand or grasp what is meant by the person who first said this, however, the question you may be posing is "Can a person who has been saved loose salvation?" Probably only God knows this answer, but the important thing here is are you looking at your own life and wandering if you have done something to forfeit your salvation? Are you looking at other people and judging the sin and salvation in their lives? You ask if someone can ask God to save them and then do whatever they want in life. In other words a person can ask God to save them and then go out and kill someone the next day and still go to heaven? The better question is "Why do we want to know this?" Is it to see how much we can get away with or mark in our own minds who will make heaven and who won't? What's the point in finding out?

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Originally Posted by Definition_Christ

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

(from this website)"In the case of John 10:28, Jesus says that no one will be able to take us away from God. The language is similar to Paul’s in Romans 8:39 when he says that nothing in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Both of these passages address the same fact that no one is capable of removing you from the grace of God. No one is capable of nullifying your salvation. It would be like saying that no one is capable of pulling you out of a car driving at eighty miles per hour. This does not mean that you are incapable of opening the door and jumping out. In the same way, John 10:28 does not mean that we are incapable of severing our relationship with God. Read on in John, and you’ll see why.

Five chapters later in John’s Gospel, Christ tells the apostles at the Last Supper to remain in his love. He adds that if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. But he who does not remain in his love is "cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" (John 15:6). Now, if salvation were a done deal, why would Jesus feel the need to tell anyone to remain in his love? It would be like locking a person in a closet and telling them to remain there. If they are unable to leave, it is senseless to ask them to remain."

I'm gonna have to go with a big "no" on OSAS.

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Corinthians 9:27

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." - Matthew 10:22

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:13

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." - 2 Peter 2:20-21

"So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." -Philippians 2:12


Something else to consider: the angels. All angels were created by God, and at one time, were in the presence of God. They believed in God and understood that he was God, and were essentially saved because they had a greated faith in God than any of us can even imagine. None of us was born knowing God, but the angels were made and knew him. There could be no doubt for them. Yet many still rebelled against him and are now fallen angels, forever condemned to hell with no hope of salvation. If they can lose salvation, so can we.

Salvation is a process. It must be worked out with "fear and trembling" as Paul states (Philippians 2:12).

[MahogonySnail]

"some shall depart from the faith"

Originally Posted by suaso

(from this website)"In the case of John 10:28, Jesus says that no one will be able to take us away from God. The language is similar to Paul’s in Romans 8:39 when he says that nothing in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Both of these passages address the same fact that no one is capable of removing you from the grace of God. No one is capable of nullifying your salvation. It would be like saying that no one is capable of pulling you out of a car driving at eighty miles per hour. This does not mean that you are incapable of opening the door and jumping out. In the same way, John 10:28 does not mean that we are incapable of severing our relationship with God. Read on in John, and you’ll see why.

Five chapters later in John’s Gospel, Christ tells the apostles at the Last Supper to remain in his love. He adds that if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. But he who does not remain in his love is "cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" (John 15:6). Now, if salvation were a done deal, why would Jesus feel the need to tell anyone to remain in his love? It would be like locking a person in a closet and telling them to remain there. If they are unable to leave, it is senseless to ask them to remain."

I'm gonna have to go with a big "no" on OSAS.

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Corinthians 9:27

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." - Matthew 10:22

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:13

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." - 2 Peter 2:20-21

"So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." -Philippians 2:12


Something else to consider: the angels. All angels were created by God, and at one time, were in the presence of God. They believed in God and understood that he was God, and were essentially saved because they had a greated faith in God than any of us can even imagine. None of us was born knowing God, but the angels were made and knew him. There could be no doubt for them. Yet many still rebelled against him and are now fallen angels, forever condemned to hell with no hope of salvation. If they can lose salvation, so can we.

Salvation is a process. It must be worked out with "fear and trembling" as Paul states (Philippians 2:12).

2 Peter
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Not even going to start trying to put the Scripture you posted into context, but you probably should read the context of a passage before you post a Scripture.

[Stand_Up_4_God]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

"some shall depart from the faith"

2 Peter 2:19-22 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free,and be not entangled again with bondage.

Just a quick note: Most don't understand there's a difference in salvation and eternal security. Salvation is the freedom from sin and the bondage of it. They think it's where you're secure in eternal life/security. Eternal life/security isn't salvation. That's when you have Jesus blood applied to you. Salvation is just freedom from sin and the bondage it has over us. Anyone can get back into sin and its bondage...habitual sin will get you no doubt.

Oh and an example to give, would be Peter swore he'd never deny Jesus, then he did THREE times. One more example, Judas Iscariot...betrayed Jesus for material items.

[Stand_Up_4_God]

Originally Posted by Definition_Christ

2 Peter
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Not even going to start trying to put the Scripture you posted into context, but you probably should read the context of a passage before you post a Scripture.

LOL oops! I totally got sidetracked, and had to take care of some other things when responding, and you beat me to that verse! Ah well, it's there anyways.

[Stand_Up_4_God]

oh yeah..about Judas Iscariot...he had confessed Jesus, followed Him, and everything else...soooo yeah....then did his betraying Jesus. He turned away from Jesus, and everything that he had been given.

Originally Posted by Stand_Up_4_God

oh yeah..about Judas Iscariot...he had confessed Jesus, followed Him, and everything else...soooo yeah....then did his betraying Jesus. He turned away from Jesus, and everything that he had been given.

First of all the Scripture "I never knew you" .. Jesus is literally saying "i never knew you, not I knew you than you fell away from me."

Second. Jesus said Judas wasn't with Him from the beginning.

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

Judas never confessed anything to Jesus...Jesus knew He would betray Him from the beginning.

[cookie39]

Originally Posted by Definition_Christ

2 Peter
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Not even going to start trying to put the Scripture you posted into context, but you probably should read the context of a passage before you post a Scripture.

nothing you have said make any sense to the question thats was asked; neither to any of the scriptures that was posted and none of them are taken out of context... what bible do you read?

[Maddog]

Originally Posted by Definition_Christ

2 Peter
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

So who does your scriptural interpretation then?

Originally Posted by cookie39

nothing you have said make any sense to the question thats was asked; neither to any of the scriptures that was posted and none of them are taken out of context... what bible do you read?

What are you talking about? How does that not make sense. Her quoting of Scripture was taken out of it's original content. Is that better?

I was going to explain how they were out of context but it would take a while to explain every scripture and with an attitude like that I doubt you'd be willing to listen anyway.

So who does your scriptural interpretation then?

oh sorry, I just use that passage when people use commentaries.