There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

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Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#761
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
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#761
Trinity worship is what saves...

wordhelpsme said:
Nowhere, nowhere in the Bible does it say that we have to believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one to be saved.

Nowhere does it say we have to believe in the Trinity idea to be saved.

What it does say is that we have to put faith in God and in his son to be saved.
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The NT, just like the OT, is clear that we need to worship God as He has revealed Himself – which is Triune.

Paul clearly distanced himself from his unbelieving Jewish brethren by his following belief declaration:


But I confess this to you that according to the Way, which they say is a sect, so I worship the ancestral God believing all things according to that having been written in the Law and the Prophets, having hope toward God, which these themselves also admit, of a resurrection being about to be of the dead, both of just and unjust ones. (Acts 24.14)

Clearly, Paul builds upon the previous Hebrew prophets and is now able to worship God properly ‘according to The Way’ and according to that which had previously been written in the Torah and the prophets.

Obviously, Paul is able to see what his Jewish brethren have missed. Jews have been in denial of proper worship of God – and ‘The Way’ has laid the foundation for proper worship to God.

Proper worship of God:

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

• Father
• Son (Truth)
• Spirit


Further, the Book of Revelation shows us clearly the deity interchangeability between Father, Son and Spirit and amply demonstrates that each receives worship as the one God.
 
T

tucksma

Guest
#762
#762
Re: Trinity worship is what saves...

Bowman said:
The NT, just like the OT, is clear that we need to worship God as He has revealed Himself – which is Triune.

Paul clearly distanced himself from his unbelieving Jewish brethren by his following belief declaration:


But I confess this to you that according to the Way, which they say is a sect, so I worship the ancestral God believing all things according to that having been written in the Law and the Prophets, having hope toward God, which these themselves also admit, of a resurrection being about to be of the dead, both of just and unjust ones. (Acts 24.14)

Clearly, Paul builds upon the previous Hebrew prophets and is now able to worship God properly ‘according to The Way’ and according to that which had previously been written in the Torah and the prophets.

Obviously, Paul is able to see what his Jewish brethren have missed. Jews have been in denial of proper worship of God – and ‘The Way’ has laid the foundation for proper worship to God.

Proper worship of God:

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

• Father
• Son (Truth)
• Spirit


Further, the Book of Revelation shows us clearly the deity interchangeability between Father, Son and Spirit and amply demonstrates that each receives worship as the one God.
Click to expand...
Your John quote doesn't say anything about Jesus at all. It is saying that there will be a day where true worshipers worship is spirit (or in faith) and in truth (or having the correct interpretation of his word) It doesn't even mention Jesus. You say the trinity is true, but provide no proof.
 
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tucksma

Guest
#763
#763
I do agree that we must worship God in his true nature. I don't agree that the nature is a trinity though and have seen no proof for it (that isn't explainable) but tons against it (that no one has explained).
 
Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#764
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#764
Re: Trinity worship is what saves...

tucksma said:
Your John quote doesn't say anything about Jesus at all. It is saying that there will be a day where true worshipers worship is spirit (or in faith) and in truth (or having the correct interpretation of his word) It doesn't even mention Jesus. You say the trinity is true, but provide no proof.
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'The Truth' always has Jesus as the subject in the NT.

Study up...
 
Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#765
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
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#765
tucksma said:
I do agree that we must worship God in his true nature. I don't agree that the nature is a trinity though and have seen no proof for it (that isn't explainable) but tons against it (that no one has explained).
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Give us ONE verse which supposedly thwarts the Trinity and detail to us why it supposedly does.

Good luck.
 
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tucksma

Guest
#766
#766
Well it makes sense that the truth and Jesus go hand and hand but every time "the truth" comes up I wouldn't say It is referring to Jesus by any means. Is Jesus the truth well yes, but the truth is A LOT more than just Jesus.
 
Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#767
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#767
tucksma said:
Well it makes sense that the truth and Jesus go hand and hand but every time "the truth" comes up I wouldn't say It is referring to Jesus by any means. Is Jesus the truth well yes, but the truth is A LOT more than just Jesus.
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You just haven't taken the time to study Jesus' epithets...
 
T

tucksma

Guest
#768
#768
Re: Trinity worship is what saves...

Also your john verse kind of can be interpreted two ways. It could say we need to worship God in truth and spirit with those things describing god or describing how we has believers need to worship him. Either way by no means is this saying god is Jesus. If it said God in spirit and in flesh, it'd be a different story, but it doesn't.
 
Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#769
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#769
Re: Trinity worship is what saves...

tucksma said:
Also your john verse kind of can be interpreted two ways. It could say we need to worship God in truth and spirit with those things describing god or describing how we has believers need to worship him. Either way by no means is this saying god is Jesus. If it said God in spirit and in flesh, it'd be a different story, but it doesn't.
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It informs the reader of true worship...Father, Son, Spirit.

Simple...
 
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tucksma

Guest
#770
#770
1 John 1:8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 3:18Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth
These two verses aren't referring to Jesus at all. The first could be but it is kind of a stretch but the second clearly does not. SO "truth" doesnt always mean jesus.
 
Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#771
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
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#771
tucksma said:
1 John 1:8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 3:18Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth
These two verses aren't referring to Jesus at all. The first could be but it is kind of a stretch but the second clearly does not. SO "truth" doesnt always mean jesus.
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Jesus is the subject in each of these chapters...
 
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tucksma

Guest
#772
#772
Re: Trinity worship is what saves...

It says worship the father in spirit, which could refer to with faith, or even if it is saying god as spirit okay that makes sense because God is spirit and in truth, or having the correct knowledge of him. To say this is Jesus is really stretching it. IN the verse prior to what you quoted Jesus tells the woman that she worships what she does not know. He is clearly stating truth to be a form of correctness, not himself.
 
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sureshjames

Guest
#773
#773
there are scriptures will approve trinity in old testament too one such example is genesis 1:26 let us make a man in our image in this verse god is talking to whom?
god no need of permission of angels
god no need help of angels
then he must be talking to jesus and holy spirit god
 
Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#774
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#774
Re: Trinity worship is what saves...

tucksma said:
It says worship the father in spirit, which could refer to with faith, or even if it is saying god as spirit okay that makes sense because God is spirit and in truth, or having the correct knowledge of him. To say this is Jesus is really stretching it. IN the verse prior to what you quoted Jesus tells the woman that she worships what she does not know. He is clearly stating truth to be a form of correctness, not himself.
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Again...

Show us ONE NT verse which does NOT have Jesus as the subject of 'The Truth'....
 
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tucksma

Guest
#776
#776
Jesus is the subject of like 90% of the whole NT. By that logic most words in the NT mean Jesus. Like just cuz Jesus comes up a lot of the time truth comes up doesn't mean truth = Jesus. Jesus is truth, but truth is much more than Jesus.
 
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sureshjames

Guest
#777
#777
genesis 1:1 In the begining god created the heavens and earth (this is english translation but not completely translated from old hebrew Torah)
but according to Old hebrew torah one word is left untranslated because it has no meaning i.e. aleph AND tav these are actually first and last letters of hebrew but in greek these two letters are alpha and omega this clearly says jesus is there with god.
 
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tucksma

Guest
#778
#778
sureshjames said:
there are scriptures will approve trinity in old testament too one such example is genesis 1:26 let us make a man in our image in this verse god is talking to whom?
god no need of permission of angels
god no need help of angels
then he must be talking to jesus and holy spirit god
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Who says God is asking the angels? He is telling them that they are making man in their image.
 
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tucksma

Guest
#779
#779
sureshjames said:
genesis 1:1 In the begining god created the heavens and earth (this is english translation but not completely translated from old hebrew Torah)
but according to Old hebrew torah one word is left untranslated because it has no meaning i.e. aleph AND tav these are actually first and last letters of hebrew but in greek these two letters are alpha and omega this clearly says jesus is there with god.
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where would these two words fit into the verse?
 
Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#780
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#780
tucksma said:
Jesus is the subject of like 90% of the whole NT. By that logic most words in the NT mean Jesus. Like just cuz Jesus comes up a lot of the time truth comes up doesn't mean truth = Jesus. Jesus is truth, but truth is much more than Jesus.
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John 14.6…Jesus

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and The Truth (hē alētheia), and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
 
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