There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

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Apr 24, 2012
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Then How do you get past these verses?

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Acts 4:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] This ⌊Jesus⌋ is the stone rejected by you builders, which has become the cornerstone.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people, and we must be saved by it.”

Isaiah 42:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another or My praise to idols.


Hebrews 1:3 (HCSB)

[SUP]3 [/SUP] The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact expression of His nature, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After making purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

1 Peter 4:14 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified.

As for Isaiah 43:10-11
True Gods are not "formed"!
True Gods are forever, they have no beginning and they have no end.
False gods are "formed" either of gold or silver, or stone, or wood and by evil men for evil purposes.
So Yahweh could easily say that there are no gods "formed" before me and there will be none after me.
This saying about false gods, does not, however, diminish the fact that there are other "true" Gods. See Psalms 110:1 just for 1 interesting scripture. Here "The Lord" (God the Father) said unto "my Lord" (David's Lord, which is Jesus) sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
So before Jesus was born on earth he sat on the right side of God the Father. Then he came to earth and as he was being prosecuted by the Jews, he told them that they would see him again sitting on the right hand side of God and they killed him for saying it.
So no "false" gods formed before or after Jesus, but true Gods existed, one of which he himself sat next to, God the Father.
Besides Matthew 3:16-17 declares all 3 separate and distinct and you cannot get around that scripture.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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If the 3 Persons in the Godhead are separate and distinct from each other
If the 3 Persons in the Godhead can appear as 3 separate and distinct men at the same time
If the 3 Persons don't appear as 1 Person in order to be 1 God.
How is this definition any different that what the Mormons believe?

t "t" t ><>

WHY do you try to COMPLICATE the understanding of the HOLY TRINITY, when it is SIMPLE?

THEIR SINGLE DEITY IS OMNIPRESENT, AT ALL TIMES in TIME and SPACE.

Their Personages, are three separate distinct functions within that SINGULAR GODHEAD.

The FATHER's primary function within that SINGULAR GODHEAD is to WILL what He wants done,
HE IS THE SHOT CALLER.

The SON's primary function within that SINGULAR GODHEAD is to DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.

The HOLY SPIRIT's primary function within that SINGULAR GODHEAD is to Enable us to DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER, starting with believing and receiving Jesus Christ as LORD which means MASTER.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
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As for Isaiah 43:10-11
True Gods are not "formed"!
True Gods are forever, they have no beginning and they have no end.
False gods are "formed" either of gold or silver, or stone, or wood and by evil men for evil purposes.
So Yahweh could easily say that there are no gods "formed" before me and there will be none after me.
This saying about false gods, does not, however, diminish the fact that there are other "true" Gods. See Psalms 110:1 just for 1 interesting scripture. Here "The Lord" (God the Father) said unto "my Lord" (David's Lord, which is Jesus) sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
So before Jesus was born on earth he sat on the right side of God the Father. Then he came to earth and as he was being prosecuted by the Jews, he told them that they would see him again sitting on the right hand side of God and they killed him for saying it.
So no "false" gods formed before or after Jesus, but true Gods existed, one of which he himself sat next to, God the Father.
Besides Matthew 3:16-17 declares all 3 separate and distinct and you cannot get around that scripture.

That verse about HIM taking HIS place on the right hand of GOD is symbolism, you cannot put GOD in a box on the throne. It simply points out the separate functions within the Triune GODHEAD, while their DEITY remains SINGULAR AND OMNIPRESENT IN TIME and SPACE at all times. We have a similar expression, probably a spin off of that very verse. I will use it in a sentence so that maybe you will understand the CONCEPT.

"Let me introduce you to "my right hand man", because if I want anything done, THIS is the man that does it."

The FATHER willed Creation, The SON carried out the Will of the Father, BUT THAT in NO WAY TEARS their SINGULAR OMNIPRESENT DEITY APART.

We believe in that SINGULAR TRIUNE DEITY, because you and us are triune being, created in the image of GOD.

We have a body, a soul, and a spirit, THREE distinct separate parts with three distinctly separate functions, YET WE REMAIN ONE MAN AT ALL TIMES.

Think about it, you Soul is your mind, the part of YOU that wills what you want the BODY to do. BUT it is not your mind that physically picks up the glass and drinks when your mind decides you are thirsty, it is your body that does the will of the mind.

Anyone that cannot understand the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, believing that FATHER and SON and HOLY SPIRIT, ARE ONE DEITY ETERNALLY IN TIME AND SPACE; does not believe in the HOLY TRINITY, but rather they are believing in more than one God OR They are Denying the Deity of CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT.

Isaiah 43:10-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I alone declared, saved, and proclaimed— and not some foreign god among you. So you are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and I am God.

Isaiah 6:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying:
Who should I send?

Who will go for Us?
I said: Here I am. Send me.
 
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Nov 19, 2012
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Fumbling ALL over yourself...

I would like to comment on just the first 5 verses of Genesis 18.
First of all it says that "the Lord" appeared to Abraham. But when Abraham looked up there were "3 men" standing by him.
It was not the Holy Trinity because Abraham would have only seen 1 man standing next to him. Remember the 3 are in 1 and they are consubstantial.
We have a pretty good idea that Abraham new the Lord from previous experiences and so when he looked up he saw the 3 men, he also recognized the Lord. It would be perfect behavior for him to address the leader of this group only, perhaps not knowing the other 2. So to say that he addresses the Lord because he was the only one standing there is not very logical. If a king had ridden up to Abraham's tent with 2 other assistants, Abraham may very well have rushed to him and said, my lord... not even acknowledging his assistants. We would certainly not say because Abraham addresses the king only that the other assistants were consubstantial with the king.
The only verbiage that would be Trinitarian is when "they" responded to Abraham in verse 5. I thought that was interesting until I read in chapter 19 verse 5 as the men of the city were talking to Lot it says, "they" called out to Lot and said where are the men.... Here again is this strange verbiage like all the men were calling out, but it probably was just one calling out.
Then later in verse 9 it says, "get out of the way "they" said, adding this one came here a foreigner and he's acting like a judge. Again it is not logical that the entire group of men from the city would be yelling in unison "get out of the way... and he's acting like a judge?
So the only solid verse is verse 2 where Abraham saw 3 separate and distinct men standing in front of him. So if this is the Trinity standing in front of him, the scripture declares the 3 members of the Trinity are separate and distinct.

Separate and yet the same.

The Trinity.
 
C

cjordan38

Guest
Re: Study up...

Because the bible as a whole does not teach that Jesus is God. There are so many clear cut differences between the two that only make sense if you add in "The father" after the word god. Like "God cannot die" but Jesus did. It doesn't say God the father, it says God. Or "no one has seen God" It doesn't say God the father it says God. That is where my problem is. My friend made a Giant chart of differences between the two that would only make sense if "the father" was put into scripture. Also John 17 tells us Jesus wants us to be one in him the same way he is one with God, if this talks about a trinity, then it would mean we could join this trinity, which makes no sense.
Trinity exist...clearly the Word says Jesus is the Word....And John 1 states in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God....hence in the beginning was Jesus, Jesus was with God, Jesus was God
 
Apr 24, 2012
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Re: Study up...

Trinity exist...clearly the Word says Jesus is the Word....And John 1 states in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God....hence in the beginning was Jesus, Jesus was with God, Jesus was God
John 1:1 is what I categorize as a "class B" scripture in the discussion of the nature of the Godhead. A "class A" scripture is straight-forward and can not be interpreted several ways. John 1:1 is a "class B" because it can be interpreted several ways. When John says, "the Word was with God, and the Word was God", this verbiage creates room for at least several interpretations and depending on your position, you can use this scripture to help prove your point. Some will interpret it to mean that the Word is God and so God and Jesus are "of the same substance" (consubstantial). Others would say, well it says that the Word was WITH God and so that means they are separate and distinct. The 2 parties have to agree to disagree because this "class B" scripture is not enough.
Matthew 3:16-17 on the other hand is a "class A" scripture. Some use it to announce that the Godhead is clearly made up of 3 Persons. Others use it to agree that there are 3 Persons, but go further because the scripture yells at you that they are separate and distinct Persons, and that 1 can be in another place without the other 2 being with him. It is straight-forward with no other interpretation possible. Now the 2 parties may still disagree, but 1 party is not going to be very willing to bring this scripture to the table to prove their point. It opens up a door they are not readily willing to open. A "class A" scripture like this is too difficult to get around.
So here is my challenge again. Run John 1:1 by Matthew 3:16-17 and see if you can reconcile the 2 scriptures.
 
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Apr 24, 2012
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That verse about HIM taking HIS place on the right hand of GOD is symbolism, you cannot put GOD in a box on the throne. It simply points out the separate functions within the Triune GODHEAD, while their DEITY remains SINGULAR AND OMNIPRESENT IN TIME and SPACE at all times. We have a similar expression, probably a spin off of that very verse. I will use it in a sentence so that maybe you will understand the CONCEPT.

"Let me introduce you to "my right hand man", because if I want anything done, THIS is the man that does it."

The FATHER willed Creation, The SON carried out the Will of the Father, BUT THAT in NO WAY TEARS their SINGULAR OMNIPRESENT DEITY APART.

We believe in that SINGULAR TRIUNE DEITY, because you and us are triune being, created in the image of GOD.

We have a body, a soul, and a spirit, THREE distinct separate parts with three distinctly separate functions, YET WE REMAIN ONE MAN AT ALL TIMES.

Think about it, you Soul is your mind, the part of YOU that wills what you want the BODY to do. BUT it is not your mind that physically picks up the glass and drinks when your mind decides you are thirsty, it is your body that does the will of the mind.

Anyone that cannot understand the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, believing that FATHER and SON and HOLY SPIRIT, ARE ONE DEITY ETERNALLY IN TIME AND SPACE; does not believe in the HOLY TRINITY, but rather they are believing in more than one God OR They are Denying the Deity of CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT.

Isaiah 43:10-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I alone declared, saved, and proclaimed— and not some foreign god among you. So you are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and I am God.

Isaiah 6:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying:
Who should I send?

Who will go for Us?
I said: Here I am. Send me.
How is it symbolism for God to have His Son Jesus sit on His right side? You can only go with symbolism because to you the 3 are 1 single entity, and the only separate and distinct aspect is their functions.
So is it symbolism when 3 men show up at Abraham"s tent. Now if this is the Trinity, Abraham is talking to God, Jesus is standing on his right side and the Holy Ghost is standing on his left side. 3 men standing side by side. All 3 men ate and drank. 2 of the men went on to Sodom and left 1 behind to talk to Abraham. Is this symbolism or is it just plain straight-forward scripture. Jesus not only sat on Gods right side before the world, but during his trial he told the Jews he would again sit on the right side of his Father in heaven, and they killed him for those words. He sits on the right side of God now in heaven waiting his return in glory. Is that story a symbolism of the different functions of the Trinity or is it the truth straight out of scripture?
God did use Jesus as his right hand man. God willed, Jesus carried out the will. God said go down to earth and save mankind. Jesus went to earth as willed, (while God stayed in heaven and continued to run the universe), and Jesus saved mankind. While Jesus was on his earthly mission the 2 members of the Godhead were separated physically. No symbolism.
If the 3 are omnipresent in time and space like you say, that means to me that they are everywhere, always, which means to me that potentially all things are in the Trinity. Surely at least God the Father, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, the Apostles and all that believe the Apostles words who are one with God and Jesus, (which John 17 says we are), are all members of the Trinity, but yet this concept does not tear the singular, omnipresent Deity apart, because the singular aspect of the Trinity is their singular purpose and action, acting AS IF THEY ARE ONE GOD Now when you interpret everything as singular purpose and action, all the scripture start to come into agreement, with a clear harmonious focus.

You are aware that the words omnipresent in space and time are not in the Bible.
 
A

Arwen4CJ

Guest
If the 3 Persons in the Godhead are separate and distinct from each other
If the 3 Persons in the Godhead can appear as 3 separate and distinct men at the same time
If the 3 Persons don't appear as 1 Person in order to be 1 God.
How is this definition any different that what the Mormons believe?
The Mormons believe in three different gods (in addition to other gods in the universe). They say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are only one in the same way that a committee made up of different people is one. They say that these three gods have the same purpose and the same will and act together.

Trinitarians believe that the three Persons are one God, Yahweh. Although the persons are distinct, they are not each their own being or each their own god. They don't belong to a class of beings called gods. The three Persons are part of the same Being --- Yahweh.

That is the difference.
 
A

Arwen4CJ

Guest
As for Isaiah 43:10-11
True Gods are not "formed"!
True Gods are forever, they have no beginning and they have no end.
False gods are "formed" either of gold or silver, or stone, or wood and by evil men for evil purposes.
So Yahweh could easily say that there are no gods "formed" before me and there will be none after me.
This saying about false gods, does not, however, diminish the fact that there are other "true" Gods. See Psalms 110:1 just for 1 interesting scripture. Here "The Lord" (God the Father) said unto "my Lord" (David's Lord, which is Jesus) sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
So before Jesus was born on earth he sat on the right side of God the Father. Then he came to earth and as he was being prosecuted by the Jews, he told them that they would see him again sitting on the right hand side of God and they killed him for saying it.
So no "false" gods formed before or after Jesus, but true Gods existed, one of which he himself sat next to, God the Father.
Besides Matthew 3:16-17 declares all 3 separate and distinct and you cannot get around that scripture.
Since you don't think the other verses affirm that there is only one God....take a look at these:

Isaiah 44:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:

‘I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]‘Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it;
Yes, let him recount it to Me in order,
[SUP][e][/SUP]From the time that I established the ancient [SUP][f][/SUP]nation.
And let them declare to them the things that are coming
And the events that are going to take place.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]‘Do not tremble and do not be afraid;
Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
And you are My witnesses.
Is there any God besides Me,
Or is there any other Rock?
I know of none.’”




Isaiah 44:24-25 (NASB)[SUP]24 [/SUP]Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb,

I, the LORD, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth [SUP][s][/SUP]all alone,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Causing the [SUP][t][/SUP]omens of boasters to fail,
[SUP][u][/SUP]Making fools out of diviners,
Causing wise men to draw back


Isaiah 45:4-7 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“For the sake of Jacob My servant,
And Israel My chosen one,
I have also called you by your name;
I have given you a title of honor
Though you have not known Me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“I am the LORD, and there is no other;Besides Me there is no God.
I will [SUP][d][/SUP]gird you, though you have not known Me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That [SUP][e][/SUP]men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing [SUP][f][/SUP]well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.

Isaiah 45:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his [SUP][k][/SUP]Maker:

“[SUP][l][/SUP]Ask Me about the things to come [SUP][m][/SUP]concerning My sons,
And you shall commit to Me the work of My hands.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it.
I stretched out the heavens with My hands
And I [SUP][n][/SUP]ordained all their host.


Isaiah 45:18-19 (NASB)[SUP]18[/SUP]For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it [SUP][s][/SUP]a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited),

I am the LORD, and there is none else.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“I have not spoken in secret,
In [SUP][t][/SUP]some dark land;
I did not say to the [SUP][u][/SUP]offspring of Jacob,
‘Seek Me in [SUP][v][/SUP]a waste place’;
I, the LORD, speak righteousness,
Declaring things that are upright.



Isaiah 45:21-25 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Declare and set forth your case;
Indeed, let them consult together.
Who has announced this from of old?
Who has long since declared it?
Is it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]“Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“They will say of Me, ‘Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.’
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory.”

Philippians 2:1-11 (NASB)
2 Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any [SUP][a][/SUP]affection and compassion, [SUP]2 [/SUP]make my joy complete [SUP][b][/SUP]by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Do nothing [SUP][c][/SUP]from [SUP][d][/SUP]selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; [SUP]4 [/SUP]do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Have this attitude [SUP][e][/SUP]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [SUP][f][/SUP]grasped, [SUP]7 [/SUP]but [SUP][g][/SUP]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [SUP][h][/SUP]on a cross. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, [SUP]10 [/SUP]so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Re: Study up...

John 1:1 is what I categorize as a "class B" scripture in the discussion of the nature of the Godhead. A "class A" scripture is straight-forward and can not be interpreted several ways. John 1:1 is a "class B" because it can be interpreted several ways. When John says, "the Word was with God, and the Word was God", this verbiage creates room for at least several interpretations and depending on your position, you can use this scripture to help prove your point. Some will interpret it to mean that the Word is God and so God and Jesus are "of the same substance" (consubstantial). Others would say, well it says that the Word was WITH God and so that means they are separate and distinct. The 2 parties have to agree to disagree because this "class B" scripture is not enough.
Matthew 3:16-17 on the other hand is a "class A" scripture. Some use it to announce that the Godhead is clearly made up of 3 Persons. Others use it to agree that there are 3 Persons, but go further because the scripture yells at you that they are separate and distinct Persons, and that 1 can be in another place without the other 2 being with him. It is straight-forward with no other interpretation possible. Now the 2 parties may still disagree, but 1 party is not going to be very willing to bring this scripture to the table to prove their point. It opens up a door they are not readily willing to open. A "class A" scripture like this is too difficult to get around.
So here is my challenge again. Run John 1:1 by Matthew 3:16-17 and see if you can reconcile the 2 scriptures.
Done......
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
Re: Study up...

John 1:1 is what I categorize as a "class B" scripture in the discussion of the nature of the Godhead. A "class A" scripture is straight-forward and can not be interpreted several ways. John 1:1 is a "class B" because it can be interpreted several ways. When John says, "the Word was with God, and the Word was God", this verbiage creates room for at least several interpretations and depending on your position, you can use this scripture to help prove your point. Some will interpret it to mean that the Word is God and so God and Jesus are "of the same substance" (consubstantial). Others would say, well it says that the Word was WITH God and so that means they are separate and distinct. The 2 parties have to agree to disagree because this "class B" scripture is not enough.
Matthew 3:16-17 on the other hand is a "class A" scripture. Some use it to announce that the Godhead is clearly made up of 3 Persons. Others use it to agree that there are 3 Persons, but go further because the scripture yells at you that they are separate and distinct Persons, and that 1 can be in another place without the other 2 being with him. It is straight-forward with no other interpretation possible. Now the 2 parties may still disagree, but 1 party is not going to be very willing to bring this scripture to the table to prove their point. It opens up a door they are not readily willing to open. A "class A" scripture like this is too difficult to get around.
So here is my challenge again. Run John 1:1 by Matthew 3:16-17 and see if you can reconcile the 2 scriptures.
><> t <><

And if your position is IN CHRIST, with your human spirit eternally alive, because you have been born again, then the HOLY SPIRIT is your Teacher; THEREFORE there is ONLY ONE WAY to interpret John 1:1 & 14 There are no Contradictions in the BIBLE when the HOLY SPIRIT is your Teacher.


Part of the ONLY GOD THAT HAS EVER EXISTED, entered the body of JESUS, which HE created for HIMSELF to Dwell in and die in, so that HE the ETERNAL ONE could be our PERFECT SACRIFICE for our Sins.
 
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Jan 6, 2014
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Our body, soul and spirit work as 1. God the father Jesus and the holyspirit work as one. They all have the same divine nature but are into various positions and play different roles . they are 1 not 3.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
Our body, soul and spirit work as 1. God the father Jesus and the holyspirit work as one. They all have the same divine nature but are into various positions and play different roles . they are 1 not 3.

AMEN, it is good to know that the understanding of the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is spreading world wide.

Perhaps, we get to go HOME soon.

Philippians 3:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
Re: Study up...

John 1:1 is what I categorize as a "class B" scripture in the discussion of the nature of the Godhead. A "class A" scripture is straight-forward and can not be interpreted several ways. John 1:1 is a "class B" because it can be interpreted several ways. When John says, "the Word was with God, and the Word was God", this verbiage creates room for at least several interpretations and depending on your position, you can use this scripture to help prove your point. Some will interpret it to mean that the Word is God and so God and Jesus are "of the same substance" (consubstantial). Others would say, well it says that the Word was WITH God and so that means they are separate and distinct. The 2 parties have to agree to disagree because this "class B" scripture is not enough.
Matthew 3:16-17 on the other hand is a "class A" scripture. Some use it to announce that the Godhead is clearly made up of 3 Persons. Others use it to agree that there are 3 Persons, but go further because the scripture yells at you that they are separate and distinct Persons, and that 1 can be in another place without the other 2 being with him. It is straight-forward with no other interpretation possible. Now the 2 parties may still disagree, but 1 party is not going to be very willing to bring this scripture to the table to prove their point. It opens up a door they are not readily willing to open. A "class A" scripture like this is too difficult to get around.
So here is my challenge again. Run John 1:1 by Matthew 3:16-17 and see if you can reconcile the 2 scriptures.
I too, was DONE with reconciling the two Scriptures, the moment I finished reading them; because there was NOTHING to reconcile. The Three really are ONE GOD, but the Holy Spirit is our Teacher.

1 Corinthians 2:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now God has revealed ⌊these things⌋ to us by the Spirit, for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

Part of GOD HIMSELF really did enter that BODY HE the HOLY SPIRIT created womb of Mary, so that HE who is ETERNAL, could show the Ultimate form of LOVE, and Die for our sins. Those two Scriptures PERFECTLY show the THREE really are ONE GOD.
 
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jeffery

Guest
The Trinity is an absolute fact of the Godhead. Those of you using NWT need to burn it and repent. The only option keeping you from believing is simple faith. When I read you blaspheme the Savior of the World. My passion is kindled. Why do you hate Christ? Because you want to be responsible for your own faith whether you admit it or not. Pride says I want to do it my way. Not mention Satan and his demons diluting, mixing, cursing, and destroying the faith to the author of life. Those of you mocking God be prepared no matter how long you live for testing the patience and love displayed in the Trinity.("but for blasphemy. because you a mere man, claim to be God." John 10:33 (,and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Rom.9:5)
 
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cjordan38

Guest
Re: Study up...

John 1:1 is what I categorize as a "class B" scripture in the discussion of the nature of the Godhead. A "class A" scripture is straight-forward and can not be interpreted several ways. John 1:1 is a "class B" because it can be interpreted several ways. When John says, "the Word was with God, and the Word was God", this verbiage creates room for at least several interpretations and depending on your position, you can use this scripture to help prove your point. Some will interpret it to mean that the Word is God and so God and Jesus are "of the same substance" (consubstantial). Others would say, well it says that the Word was WITH God and so that means they are separate and distinct. The 2 parties have to agree to disagree because this "class B" scripture is not enough.
Matthew 3:16-17 on the other hand is a "class A" scripture. Some use it to announce that the Godhead is clearly made up of 3 Persons. Others use it to agree that there are 3 Persons, but go further because the scripture yells at you that they are separate and distinct Persons, and that 1 can be in another place without the other 2 being with him. It is straight-forward with no other interpretation possible. Now the 2 parties may still disagree, but 1 party is not going to be very willing to bring this scripture to the table to prove their point. It opens up a door they are not readily willing to open. A "class A" scripture like this is too difficult to get around.
So here is my challenge again. Run John 1:1 by Matthew 3:16-17 and see if you can reconcile the 2 scriptures.
See thats the problem....You classify this as a class b scripture....not God...All of Gods word is meaningful...Jesus sais he was the Word...God said Jesus Is the Word...be a hearer of the Word....God said let us create man in our own image...Meaning God the Father, which is the head, God the Son, which is the body, And God the Holy Ghost,, Which is the spirit...Hence man is the same exact way....and Matthew 3:16 and 17 you can relate to John 1...Didnt Jesus say he is the light and the light is the Word and the Word is God...Now of you read before verse 16 and 17 in Matthew you will see Jesus said they must fullfill all righteousness. .. When the Holy Ghost descended upon Jesus like a Dove it was an example of whats to come...God seperated himself into 3...Jesus was the first to come then the Holy Ghost....They were seperated but together...When Jesus died on the cross he released the Holy Ghost hence he said he gave up the Ghost so that it could be free to all men....God is still God hench his name his entities which are Jesus and the Holy Ghost cant do anything unless God says so....But they are one...Jesus said him and the father are one and no one comes to the father but through him....Consult with God and he will show you truth
 
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Hoffco

Guest
let us be careful not to allow our emotions to enter into our discusion and condemn others, who are sincere in their study for the truth. This has been a great sharing of truth,scriptures, and God uses the truth to create faith. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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cjordan38

Guest
let us be careful not to allow our emotions to enter into our discusion and condemn others, who are sincere in their study for the truth. This has been a great sharing of truth,scriptures, and God uses the truth to create faith. Love to all, Hoffco
Just the emotion of the love of God....Im radical and just doing what God says let preach the Word and keep going...But thanks :)
 
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jeffery

Guest
There are no Scriptures that denies the Holy Trinity, just a lot of confused, prideful, or deceived people. If your using a perverted scripture like nwt you need to repent and get NAS,NIV KJV or many other proved translations. The person who challenging people to compare Matthew 3:16 and John 1:1 should be commended. The Spirit of God(Holy Spirit) coming down to the Son of God and God the Father saying, "I am well pleased," is the perfect picture of the Trinity. John 1:1 the "word" translated from greek is ho theos which means The God, not theos which can be changed to anyone of divine nature. My sister-in-law died a jw and I know she is in hell. If you have a specific scripture in viable translation I will agree with you. By the way did you know Charles Taze Russell was an extreme racist.
 
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Arwen4CJ

Guest
Re: Study up...

I too, was DONE with reconciling the two Scriptures, the moment I finished reading them; because there was NOTHING to reconcile. The Three really are ONE GOD, but the Holy Spirit is our Teacher.

1 Corinthians 2:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now God has revealed ⌊these things⌋ to us by the Spirit, for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

Part of GOD HIMSELF really did enter that BODY HE the HOLY SPIRIT created womb of Mary, so that HE who is ETERNAL, could show the Ultimate form of LOVE, and Die for our sins. Those two Scriptures PERFECTLY show the THREE really are ONE GOD.
Besides the fact that we have explained Matthew 3:16-17 several times in this thread, but our responses have been ignored by johnluke every single time.