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Thread: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30)

    There are several bible verses where God the Father called His Son "God."

    The word God is merely a title and both the Father & Son are God.
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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingalong View Post
    The Trinity doctrine is an illogical, non-Bible based teaching. Many are confused by this falsehood...and as a result do not feel close to God; or feel real love or real connection to/ for God because this erroneous teaching.John 7:29, is one of many verses in the Bible that disproves the Trinity doctrine.
    You need to read holy Scripture carefully.

    Prime factor of Holy Trinity. - One who calls everything into existence from nothing,The Supreme Majesty.
    Yahweh
    (One who calls everything into existence from nothing),God the father - is a spirit being,its beyond form and gender,not containable in heavens above heavens. John 4:24.
    He is omnipotent,omniscient,timeless.We dwell in him.And by the term 'Him' it means supreme authority,not a man.

    Second factor in Holy Trinity.(The Lord of Lords and King of Kings,don't assume its earthly kings,its about the leaders of heavenly and other spiritual host(armies and dominions) leaders.
    Jesus Christ son of God(not physically begotten,but its a spiritual meaning) - Rev 1:5 KJV 1611.

    He is the express image of God - Hebrews 1:3 KJV 1611.
    By him(Amen,the Lord) God created everything. Revelation 3:14 KJV.
    Don't think he is a creation.God created everything for Jesus.
    In short,Jesus Christ is the wholeness of God in perfect form.
    Our portal to reach God,with the help of divine channel called Holy spirit.

    Third factor in Holy Trinity.- The Holy Spirit,Love of God given to us for our full spiritual growth to the image of Christ.

    Holy Spirit is the caretaker given to us,after God made provision through crucifixion of Jesus and raising him up from death.
    Its the same spirit of the Lord,mentioned in the Old Testament.The same spirit that was inside Samson,David,etc that lead them.In Grace Period that is now(ends with the Secret second coming of the Lord Jesus),Holy Spirit is at work. - Joel 2:28-32 KJV),John 16:7 KJV.
    The beginning of the Mighty Pouring of Holy Spirit - Acts Chapter 2.Its called anointing of the Holy Spirit.Its with this supernatural strength the Early Apostles turned the world upside down.We don't much lean on God,so we doubt.

    In short,the Trinity of God(Yahweh-God the Father,Jesus-God the son,Holy Spirit- God the spirit[the true good spirit] is like a family.A family is one but has different units.

    Turn to God,Pray to Jesus.
    God Bless.

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by biscuit View Post
    "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30)

    There are several bible verses where God the Father called His Son "God."

    The word God is merely a title and both the Father & Son are God.
    Biscuit,

    I know that you are aware of John 17 since you are aware of John 10. Whenever you quote John 10:30 as a proof-text for the Trinity, you have to hope that the person you are talking to does not know the Bible very well, especially a little further on in John, and specifically chapter 17. Chapter 17 is the answer to John 10:30. In chapter 17 Jesus is offering a prayer to his Father who is in Heaven, and the first part of the prayer is for a blessing on his apostles.

    17:11 says, ...Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
    If you are going to use your logic to say that when Jesus said in 10:30 that he and the Father were one, and you think that meant they were one physically and spiritually, then you have to use that same logic and say that now according to 17:11 Jesus and the Father and the apostles are all one physically and spiritually. With that, the Trinity is not 3 but is 15.

    The prayer continues. In vs 20-21 now Jesus prays for another group of people:

    It says Neither do I pray for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word, that they all my be one as thou, Father , art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us....

    Now if you are using that same logic as above in 10:30 and Jesus and the Father are one physically and spiritually, you have to use that same logic in reading 17:20-21 and say the Jesus and the Father and the apostles and those that believe in the apostles are all one physically and spiritually. Now the Trinity is not 3 or 15, it is billions.

    Since we know that the Godhead is only 3, then your logic about 10:30 is probably not right. So what is another answer for 10:30?

    Think about this, Jesus and the Father are not one physically and spiritually, but one in mind, will, purpose and action. All peoples can be one in mind, will, purpose and action with the Godhead, but the Godhead can remain 3 and direct the actions of the billions that are one with them through Holy Spirit.

    That reconciles 10:30 with 17:11 and 17:20-21 and all is well.

    You are right that both the Father and Son are God. They are just both separate and distinct personages, they act as I have described above as one God.

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingalong View Post
    The Trinity doctrine is an illogical, non-Bible based teaching. Many are confused by this falsehood...and as a result do not feel close to God; or feel real love or real connection to/ for God because this erroneous teaching.John 7:29, is one of many verses in the Bible that disproves the Trinity doctrine.
    ><>t<><

    Spiritual Truths are NEVER logical to a human beings fleshly mind, when they do not have the HOLY SPIRIT in them; because those spiritual TRUTHS are ONLY spiritually understood with a spiritual mind.

    1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
    12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
    13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
    14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
    16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


    I feel so close to GOD, that I can feel HIM IN ME, and I KNOW ABSOLUTELY FOR CERTAIN THAT I AM IN CHRIST WHO IS GOD INCARNATE. I could have NO GREATER love for GOD, than I have now, and I KNOW GOD LOVES ME. HE is more important to me than anything on this planet or in this Universe. I also love GOD more than my wife, and she too loves GOD more than me; and we have been married since July of 1979.

    We both totally believe that the Holy Trinity is PURE 100% TRUTH, and we do not believe that anyone who denies the Holy Trinity, is born again or saved. The Holy Spirit is the ONE who teaches us that the Trinity is absolutely the TRUTH. I know of NO "born again" Christian who does not feel the same. Perhaps the problem that causes you to NOT UNDERSTAND, is you have never surrendered complete control of your life to Jesus Christ as LORD, which means MASTER; and thus you remain lord of your own life. When you willingly surrender to Jesus Christ, mourning over your utter sinfulness; THAT is the moment that the Holy Spirit comes into your heart, bringing your dead to GOD human spirit to Eternal Life, giving you the SPIRITUAL understanding that the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is absolute TRUTH.
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    t t t
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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by johnluke View Post
    Biscuit,

    I know that you are aware of John 17 since you are aware of John 10. Whenever you quote John 10:30 as a proof-text for the Trinity, you have to hope that the person you are talking to does not know the Bible very well, especially a little further on in John, and specifically chapter 17. Chapter 17 is the answer to John 10:30. In chapter 17 Jesus is offering a prayer to his Father who is in Heaven, and the first part of the prayer is for a blessing on his apostles.

    17:11 says, ...Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
    If you are going to use your logic to say that when Jesus said in 10:30 that he and the Father were one, and you think that meant they were one physically and spiritually, then you have to use that same logic and say that now according to 17:11 Jesus and the Father and the apostles are all one physically and spiritually. With that, the Trinity is not 3 but is 15.

    The prayer continues. In vs 20-21 now Jesus prays for another group of people:

    It says Neither do I pray for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word, that they all my be one as thou, Father , art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us....

    Now if you are using that same logic as above in 10:30 and Jesus and the Father are one physically and spiritually, you have to use that same logic in reading 17:20-21 and say the Jesus and the Father and the apostles and those that believe in the apostles are all one physically and spiritually. Now the Trinity is not 3 or 15, it is billions.

    Since we know that the Godhead is only 3, then your logic about 10:30 is probably not right. So what is another answer for 10:30?

    Think about this, Jesus and the Father are not one physically and spiritually, but one in mind, will, purpose and action. All peoples can be one in mind, will, purpose and action with the Godhead, but the Godhead can remain 3 and direct the actions of the billions that are one with them through Holy Spirit.

    That reconciles 10:30 with 17:11 and 17:20-21 and all is well.

    You are right that both the Father and Son are God. They are just both separate and distinct personages, they act as I have described above as one God.
    Appreciate your post but "logic" has no place in Scriptures because it clearly defines the Trinity if one truly want to understand it.

    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost ; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which hath testified of his Son" (2 John 5:7-9)

    As you can see it can only be three and not 15 or a billion, and the Scriptures is very clear .

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    [QUOTE=biscuit;1402270]Appreciate your post but "logic" has no place in Scriptures because it clearly defines the Trinity if one truly want to understand it.

    Logic comes from the Mind of God.. just saying
    Love, Peace, Righteousness, and Joy in the Holy Spirit
    ~Living is in the giving

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    hmmm so how can the father be the son? or the son be the father? something to keep in mind though God made us in his image and if God was 3 persons in 1 we would have to be 3 persons also, it's like this... every person has 3 parts of their body doesn't mean they are 3 persons in one, we all have a body spirit and soul it's the same thing with God, doesn't mean he is 3 persons in one.. i won't get too deep into the topic because some people mind just made up but atleast consider this text

    1 Thessalonians 5:23

    King James Version (KJV)

    23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    1 Corinthians 8:6

    King James Version (KJV)

    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    We are 3 part beings, just as God is. We are body, spirit and soul, but yet 1 person...1 person - 3 parts.

    God is divided into Father (the mind, will, perhaps put the "soul" of God), the Son (the word of God manifest in the FLESH, so the body of God) and the Holy Spirit (The spirit of God)
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    Jeremiah 31:3 "3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with loving-kindness have I drawn thee.

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    Default Re: Learn to read...


    v4 Yahweh saw that Moses turned aside to see, but it was Elohim that called out from the bush and said Moses, Moses... Elohim speaks to Moses from vs 4-6.


    Further evidence that Malek Yahweh is Yahweh and Elohim.

    This is not further evidence. If malek Yahweh was speaking in v4 it would have said and "malek Yahweh" said...
    but what it clearly says is that "Yahweh" said...
    I know you won't agree, but it is possible that the actual Yahweh took the place of his messenger, and became the one that spoke to Moses, once Moses turned aside and came to see this sight.


    The terms are used interchangeably....anyone can see this.
    The word "terms", do you mean "names". Because if you do, I can agree with you that Yahweh and Elohim and even malek Yahweh can use names interchangeably. That probably solves our problem with this scripture.
    Last edited by johnluke; February 10th, 2014 at 03:47 PM.

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by biscuit View Post
    Appreciate your post but "logic" has no place in Scriptures because it clearly defines the Trinity if one truly want to understand it.

    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost ; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which hath testified of his Son" (2 John 5:7-9)

    As you can see it can only be three and not 15 or a billion, and the Scriptures is very clear .
    Google "Johannine comma" and you will see why we don't use 1 John 5:7-9 for this discussion.

    So how do you reconcile 10:30 and 17:11 and 17:21?

    10:30 Jesus and his Father are "one". (and the Holy Spirit of course) +3
    17:11 Jesus and his Father and the apostles are "one". (+12)
    17:21 Jesus and his Father and the apostles and all those that believe in the apostles word are "one". (+billions)

    You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    Either this number continues to grow into the billions

    or

    Everybody including Jesus and his Father and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct personages but we all have the same minds and wills, perfectly tuned by the Holy Spirit to produce a harmonious purpose and action. We are truly "one".
    Last edited by johnluke; February 10th, 2014 at 05:16 PM.

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcyboy View Post
    We are 3 part beings, just as God is. We are body, spirit and soul, but yet 1 person...1 person - 3 parts.

    God is divided into Father (the mind, will, perhaps put the "soul" of God), the Son (the word of God manifest in the FLESH, so the body of God) and the Holy Spirit (The spirit of God)
    You say it correctly, we are a 3 part being, just like God, he is also a 3 part being.

    Our 3 part being was designed and created to be in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26). So what we are like and how we are made up in 3 parts (body, spirit, soul), so is God. He has a body, spirit, and soul too. If we are in his image and likeness, He is in our image and likeness.

    When Jesus was on earth he was in the "express image of God's Person" (Hebrews 1:3). Jesus had his own body and his own spirit and his own soul, 3 parts, just like us, and just like his Father, God. If Jesus was the express image of God's Person and had 3 parts, God must be in the express image of Jesus with the same 3 parts.

    We have 3 parts within us, not 3 persons. Jesus has 3 parts within him, not 3 persons. God, Jesus's Father and our Father has 3 parts, just like us, not 3 persons.
    Last edited by johnluke; February 10th, 2014 at 06:06 PM.

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by johnluke View Post
    We have 3 parts within us, not 3 persons. Jesus has 3 parts within him, not 3 persons. God, Jesus's Father and our Father has 3 parts, just like us, not 3 persons.

    This is incorrect. We are not made up of three parts, but three persons. That much is very clear.
    And each person within us is a spirit being with its own abilities, function, and purpose.
    Before Jesus was made flesh in the physical, God made man in His own image after His likeness. God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all spirit beings, so we need to stop trying to attribute our physical body to part of our makeup as being like God.
    If you look closely at scripture, you will see the soul of man sees, hears, and talks, the heart of man sees, hears, and talks, and the spirit of man sees, hears, and talks. Also, you would see that each has a mind of its own.

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    I feel so close to GOD, that I can feel HIM IN ME, and I KNOW ABSOLUTELY FOR CERTAIN THAT I AM IN CHRIST WHO IS GOD INCARNATE. I could have NO GREATER love for GOD, than I have now, and I KNOW GOD LOVES ME. HE is more important to me than anything on this planet or in this Universe. I also love GOD more than my wife, and she too loves GOD more than me; and we have been married since July of 1979.
    Thank you for sharing this with us. There are not that many men in the world that can bear this type of testimony. So even though I don't know you, I feel good about your part of the world, it has a good man and woman who loves the Lord, and may the Lord be with you always.

    I want you to know that I too believe in the Holy Trinity. I know that the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit are real and play a real part in our life, especially when we invite them into our lives and do our part to build up the kingdom of God here on earth. I must say that we will probably disagree about the intricate details of the Trinity, but we both believe that it is made up of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

    I hope as we discuss these intricate details that you will not get frustrated with me and blow me off. I am worth the discussion, as is everyone you talk to.

    So you and your wife stay in love with the Lord, we need more people like you.

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    This is incorrect. We are not made up of three parts, but three persons. That much is very clear.
    And each person within us is a spirit being with its own abilities, function, and purpose.
    Before Jesus was made flesh in the physical, God made man in His own image after His likeness. God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all spirit beings, so we need to stop trying to attribute our physical body to part of our makeup as being like God.
    If you look closely at scripture, you will see the soul of man sees, hears, and talks, the heart of man sees, hears, and talks, and the spirit of man sees, hears, and talks. Also, you would see that each has a mind of its own.
    Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    Notice the soul is separate from the spirit and the heart thinks and has intentions of its own, separate from the soul and spirit of man.
    What is the purpose of the soul of man? What about this heart that thinks apart from the soul of man? And what does the spirit of man do?

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    Default Re: Learn to read...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnluke View Post

    v4 Yahweh saw that Moses turned aside to see, but it was Elohim that called out from the bush and said Moses, Moses... Elohim speaks to Moses from vs 4-6.


    Further evidence that Malek Yahweh is Yahweh and Elohim.

    This is not further evidence. If malek Yahweh was speaking in v4 it would have said and "malek Yahweh" said...
    but what it clearly says is that "Yahweh" said...
    I know you won't agree, but
    it is possible that the actual Yahweh took the place of his messenger, and became the one that spoke to Moses, once Moses turned aside and came to see this sight.

    You've been watching too many episodes of 'Supernatural'.

    Just go with the obvious....that Malek Yahweh IS Yahweh.

    Understand The Trinity.





    The word "terms", do you mean "names". Because if you do, I can agree with you that Yahweh and Elohim and even malek Yahweh can use names interchangeably. That probably solves our problem with this scripture.

    Yahweh is God's personal name.

    Malek Yahweh and Elohim are just but two epithets used to describe the ONE God.

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by gzusfrk View Post
    If that verse is a lie then how does one believe any of the Bible, its to late for me I have already come to the knowledge of the truth, if you dont take the Word for what it is, then it cannot work in you. 1 Thessalonians 2:13
    we know that verse was added but the rest of the Bible actually happened

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    ><>t<><

    I can't count the times that non-trinitarians have had difficulty explaining their beliefs either. Why is that? Most people are too lazy these days to actually study to be prepared to give an answer to those who ask why we believe what they believe. Now when you find those Trinitarians who DO KNOW THEIR HOLY TRINITY THEOLOGY AND THE VERSES THAT BIBLICALLY SUPPORT OUR BELIEFS, you will find it is explained thoroughly, and supported Biblically with several verses per point, NOT JUST ONE VERSE. AND WE WILL BE IN ALMOST TOTAL AGREEMENT, because we have the mind of Christ in us. So, don't ask the baby Christians or the spiritually immature to explain it to you, ask us who are spiritually Mature, and you will find very little difference in what we tell you.

    NOW, you have one MAJOR error in your thinking. You keep thinking that the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity should be intellectually understandable, if it is true. WRONG! Spiritual Truths were NEVER meant to be intellectually understood. If you do not have the Holy Spirit in you, bringing your human spirit to eternal life, you will find it nearly impossible to understand, because you must be born again (having the Holy Spirit bring your human spirit to eternal life), before you can even begin to understand spiritual truths. When your human spirit is eternally alive, you have a functioning spiritual mind as well as a fleshly mind. Things like the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity can ONLY be understood with the spiritual mind as the HOLY SPIRIT enables you to understand. Prior to that born again experience, you only think with the fleshly mind, and therefore the spiritual truths will sound like nothing but foolishness to you.

    1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
    12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
    13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
    14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
    16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
    John 14:26 (HCSB)
    26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit—the Father will send Him in My name—will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

    John 3:5-7 (HCSB)
    5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
    6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit
    is spirit.
    7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

    Zechariah 12:1 (HCSB)
    1 An Oracle The word of the LORD concerning Israel. A declaration of the LORD, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth, and formed the spirit of man within him.
    i dont have trouble discussing my beliefs so if you want to talk more personally message me

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcyboy View Post
    We are 3 part beings, just as God is. We are body, spirit and soul, but yet 1 person...1 person - 3 parts.

    God is divided into Father (the mind, will, perhaps put the "soul" of God), the Son (the word of God manifest in the FLESH, so the body of God) and the Holy Spirit (The spirit of God)
    we are a Living soul we do not have three parts we have two our soul and our spirit our soul is our body and our spirit is our breath from God

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by biscuit View Post
    "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30)

    There are several bible verses where God the Father called His Son "God."

    The word God is merely a title and both the Father & Son are God.
    what verses are these

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    Default Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by jackmoore View Post
    we are a Living soul we do not have three parts we have two our soul and our spirit our soul is our body and our spirit is our breath from God
    1 Thessalonians 5v23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole SPIRIT and SOUL and BODY be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." [Emphasis added]

    Clearly we are 3 part beings, otherwise Paul would have simply stated Spirit and Soul, unless Paul clearly had no understanding of the human being. You have a body, if I punched you, it would be your body that would suffer. If I fire you from your job and call you worthless and useless, it is your soul that suffers. If you give yourself to the Lord and receive His salvation, it is your Spirit that is renewed, your flesh is decaying and passing away and your mind (Part of the Soul's function) still needs to be renewed daily...

    God bless
    Jeremiah 31:3 "3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with loving-kindness have I drawn thee.

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