Yes I am a Calvinist

[Pete_Martinez]

Why did Christ have to come at all?

Let me ask you, why did Christ have to die if God has already determined whether inidividuals go to hell or heaven? Then for a person destined to hell, Christ cannot save them, and for a person destined to heaven, Christ cannot prevent.

If anything predestination/election gives us a bigger reason to serve. If God has indeed finished the work on earth, then what we are doing is participating in his fnished will. If we're already saved and have already been promised victory, then why should we not fight?

Did God depend on the Israelites to part the red sea? To part the river Jordan? To knock down the walls of Jericho? No, all they were doing is believing and obeying. That's what resting in God's finished work, it isn't just laying there because God has finished the work.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

As you can see, resting isn't idling, it's about ceasing to work in the flesh and instead submitting to God's finished work in the spirit, doing what he wills according to his purpose. God's work done God's way.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Did God depend on the Israelites to part the red sea? To part the river Jordan? To knock down the walls of Jericho? No, all they were doing is believing and obeying. That's what resting in God's finished work, it isn't just laying there because God has finished the work.

Actually the far majority of Israelites who left Egypt did not enter into the promised land due to their own hardness of heart and unbeilef, keep reading Hebrews you'll see that. That alone sort of defeats the whole argument of those who believe in predestination.

 

[DinoDillinger]

the whole thing with predestination is that man can't will himself saved. Which is plainly stated in scripture.

 

[greatkraw]

I am of Paul ..... I am of Appollos..... I am of Calvin - yawn

The L in TULIP is wrong.

 

[DinoDillinger]

I am of Paul ..... I am of Appollos..... I am of Calvin - yawn

The L in TULIP is wrong.

Are you a universalist?

 

[greatkraw]

Are you a universalist?

Labels are wonderful things. I don't even know what you mean.

I am a Bible Believer.

Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole kosmos.

1 John 2

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

2And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Calvin himself also taught that Jesus blood was spilled not for some only, but for the whole world:

"By the word many, he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race."

(Calvin on Mark 14:24)

 

[Pete_Martinez]

Labels are wonderful things. I don't even know what you mean.

I am a Bible Believer.

Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole kosmos.

1 John 2

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

2And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Calvin himself also taught that Jesus blood was spilled not for some only, but for the whole world:

"By the word many, he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race."

(Calvin on Mark 14:24)

And then it is said that Calvin is holding a torch in his hand ready to burn Paul at the stake.

 

[DinoDillinger]

My understanding of limited atonement is this

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


It's not that I don't believe His sacrifice couldn't cover every person, but that is only covers those who believes in Him.

And unversalism is the belief that none will go to hell because Jesus died for the whole world.

 

[greatkraw]

OK

plenty of people will go to hell because their works were evil but their sins were forgiven.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Actually the far majority of Israelites who left Egypt did not enter into the promised land due to their own hardness of heart and unbeilef, keep reading Hebrews you'll see that. That alone sort of defeats the whole argument of those who believe in predestination.

Moses did not make it either, Im sure Moses was a saved man. God says "I will give you a new heart!", you cannot gain or lose salvation due to how your own heart acts, you might be cast down to the grave though, and there you know nothing until resurrection. The whole problem with missunderstanding predestination, is missunderstanding heaven and hell, by not obeying God you may end up in the grave quicker than what you had planned, also by obeying God you may end up in the grave quicker as well, but ultimate salvation is predetermined by God, its appointed by Him.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I also don't understand how Calvinism gives someone a bigger reason to serve. In evangelism for example, the Calvinist may well say "well, that person didn't respond the Gospel, they must not be one of the elect", and then go onto the next. But with a bit of effort that person may have responded if the Calvinist had put the effort in.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I also don't understand how Calvinism gives someone a bigger reason to serve. In evangelism for example, the Calvinist may well say "well, that person didn't respond the Gospel, they must not be one of the elect", and then go onto the next. But with a bit of effort that person may have responded if the Calvinist had put the effort in.

I don't see that as a Calvinist problem I see that as a post-modern protestant evangelism problem.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't see that as a Calvinist problem I see that as a post-modern protestant evangelism problem.

Amen!
@snail when did you ever see a calvinist do that? i never do that when i evangelize i bring tho Gospel to all people for I do not know whom the Lord has chosen. If they don't respond i do not know if they are not elect or if God has called them for a different time. so i have more reason to evangelize. The reason being is because I know people will be saved.

 

[Definition_Christ]

The title sums it up. Yes I am
I believe in the total depravity of man
I believe we cannot "choose God" for we are dead in our sins and love it.Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
I believe that God called His elect before the foundation of the World to be Holy and Blameless before Him. Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
I believe that God does all the saving so that we have no part in it that we may boast of His Work.No argument there.
I believe that God does predestine people for Hell so His Power and Justice may be Known.2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Now I already know what you are going to say, that was written to the Church, very well but that's not my point. My point is IF THE CHURCH IS PREDESTINED WHY WOULD GOD EVEN HAVE A CONCERN THAT THEY SHOULD PERISH?
I believe In God the Father. Almighty maker of Heaven and maker of Earth.
I believe In Jesus Christ His only Begotten Son.
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit Born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Poncious Pilot .
He was Crucified, buried, and dead.
On the Third Day He rose again.
He ascended into heaven Where He sits at God's Mighty right hand.
He will come back to Judge the Dead and the Sons of Men.
I believe that He took the Wrath of God for His elects sins.1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
I believe that if we are truly His He Will not let us Go. Well you already said we are predestined so according to that logic, He can never let us go. Not to mention it's logically impossible to force someone to do something freely. IE love somebody. You must freely love God by keeping His commandments and believe Jesus died on the Cross and rose again.
1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
This is My Creed
See if you find Fault in Me.Okay..

I answered your Creed in red.

 

[Phoenix]

I answered your Creed in red.

alright. well dude the Joshua thing is in no refernence to the Gospel.. but ok what ever floats your boat. if you would like to debate i more then welcome it. but i will not welcome bother with flaming. we are brothers in Christ wether arminian or Calvinist. I do not wish to divide but I will debate if you want.

 

[Definition_Christ]

alright. well dude the Joshua thing is in no refernence to the Gospel.. but ok what ever floats your boat. if you would like to debate i more then welcome it. but i will not welcome bother with flaming. we are brothers in Christ wether arminian or Calvinist. I do not wish to divide but I will debate if you want.

Yeah no worries bro, I'd like to try and understand what you believe a little bit more into detail.

Joshua 24:15 is talking about choiring to serve God or serve the devil. Uhh what we don't have a problem saying Jesus is God right? Because that is another issue all by itself.

 

[dustyzafu]

This is My Creed
See if you find Fault in Me.

You use the capital letters randomly. "He was Crucified, buried, and dead." The same respect you accord God by using capital letters, you also give yourself. It looks a little frantic.

You seem to believe that a creed on paper is a substitute for the way you live. You have faults. Just because you typed up some doctrines (many of which you learned directly from others, so what's up with the "My Creed" thing?) doesn't make you faultless.

You pick fights over issues you know will be controversial. This isn't exactly virtuous.

 

[Cako53]

So am I safe to assume that you believe in predestination? so do you belive that EVERYTHING was predistinated, or just some stuff (if so what?)

 

[watchmen]

No, I am not a Calvinist.
Lol.
But Mark Driscoll is a Calvinist (a self identified "four-and-a-half point Calvinist") and I enjoy his sermons. John Piper is ok too.
But a Calvinist I am not.

I am not a Calvinist matter of fact I object to the doctrine strongly, however I too must confess I enjoy some of their preachers mainly Paul Washer.

 

[watchmen]

The title sums it up. Yes I am
I believe in the total depravity of man
I believe we cannot "choose God" for we are dead in our sins and love it.
I believe that God called His elect before the foundation of the World to be Holy and Blameless before Him.
I believe that God does all the saving so that we have no part in it that we may boast of His Work.
I believe that God does predestine people for Hell so His Power and Justice may be Known.

I am sorry you to hear you actually believe the attack against the character of God.

I believe In God the Father. Almighty maker of Heaven and maker of Earth.
I believe In Jesus Christ His only Begotten Son.
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit Born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Poncious Pilot .
He was Crucified, buried, and dead.
On the Third Day He rose again.
He ascended into heaven Where He sits at God's Mighty right hand.
He will come back to Judge the Dead and the Sons of Men.

This portion of the creed is good.

I believe that He took the Wrath of God for His elects sins.

Jesus died for the sin of the whole world everyone that would ever be born.

I believe that if we are truly His He Will not let us Go.

Those that are truly committed to Him will not leave.

This is My Creed
See if you find Fault in Me.

Do I find fault in you? maybe not. Do i find fault in what you have been taught to believe? absolutely.