I am sure some of the 613 laws are what Jesus taught on but not all have relevance today and that makes them 'suspect as to their validity. These were given through Moses and abolished in Christ....I do not see how we should return to them. If any are worthy of keeping JESUS would include them in His teaching....is my ho !
For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?
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When we have been filled by the Holy Spirit, and we study the laws given Moses, it becomes obvious which laws are fulfilled by Jesus Christ in His teaching and on the Cross. We know with study of His teaching not to sow two kinds of seed in the field for the Sower only sowed one seed.
God throughth the 600 + laws. You already know by no food received with thanksgiving is unclean, though Paul teaches the obvious not to eat that wich is strangled or died of itself, and the studied know why we should not eat blood.
There are no sacrifices for sin since the Lamb of God, though we are allowed to give our only gift and sacrifice availed to us to have power to give God, and that is the sacrifice of thanksgiving.
Please, all who truly love Jesus Christ and are thankful to Him for all He has done, hear Him, and stop this nonsense and non-issue of whether we are to obey God or no.
Out of one side of the mouth many declae they obey the laws because of the laws of love they do. If any actualy do the laws of love, then all of the laws that are still in effect are included in those two laws...think. meditate. Are you going to say the wisdom of the law in indicating we should not move our neighbor's marker (to favor another) is not still valid and contained in love? Do not play innocent of this truth, and study God's Word to be found a good servant.
The study of God's Word is the study of Jesus Christ Who is the Word, and He is God, amen.
God throughth the 600 + laws. You already know by no food received with thanksgiving is unclean, though Paul teaches the obvious not to eat that wich is strangled or died of itself, and the studied know why we should not eat blood.
There are no sacrifices for sin since the Lamb of God, though we are allowed to give our only gift and sacrifice availed to us to have power to give God, and that is the sacrifice of thanksgiving.
Please, all who truly love Jesus Christ and are thankful to Him for all He has done, hear Him, and stop this nonsense and non-issue of whether we are to obey God or no.
Out of one side of the mouth many declae they obey the laws because of the laws of love they do. If any actualy do the laws of love, then all of the laws that are still in effect are included in those two laws...think. meditate. Are you going to say the wisdom of the law in indicating we should not move our neighbor's marker (to favor another) is not still valid and contained in love? Do not play innocent of this truth, and study God's Word to be found a good servant.
The study of God's Word is the study of Jesus Christ Who is the Word, and He is God, amen.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
We are delivered from the law? does that mean we make the law void? does that mean the law is done away with? It means we are freed from the guilty charges of the law. There are two ways to serve the law ( the same law)
In the newness of the spirit. (I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people, And be renewed in the spirit of your mind).
the oldness of the letter. (Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. We fail when we try to do it by ourselves.)
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
The law isn't gone or done away with because Jesus satisfied it perfectly. God want to write it on our hearts by the spirit, not so that we earn salvation but because the those that obey it are loving God and loving each other. What a loving world this would be if we all allowed the Spirit to write the laws of God on our hearts.
We are delivered from the law? does that mean we make the law void? does that mean the law is done away with? It means we are freed from the guilty charges of the law. There are two ways to serve the law ( the same law)
In the newness of the spirit. (I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people, And be renewed in the spirit of your mind).
the oldness of the letter. (Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. We fail when we try to do it by ourselves.)
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
The law isn't gone or done away with because Jesus satisfied it perfectly. God want to write it on our hearts by the spirit, not so that we earn salvation but because the those that obey it are loving God and loving each other. What a loving world this would be if we all allowed the Spirit to write the laws of God on our hearts.
totally agree
By earnest study we can see what is lawful today and what isn't. We should never say the old testament isn't relevant, because all of it is important even if it is just for us to see how they kept laws back then.
For example the sanctuary services, and day of atonement are not something i practice today but i do get a lot of insight and understanding about salvation from them.
Like you said above if we take time to study the laws we can work out which ones were fulfilled in Jesus and which ones are still important to practice or obey today.
i totally believe that "by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
but i also believe that "this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."
Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Keeping the law is a burden for everyone that isn't filled with the spirit.
Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
If we keep the law and it is a burden than it is useless because we are doing it for the wrong reason (Wrong spirit). But if i am filled by God's spirit and die to the flesh than keeping the law will be a delight because the law is spiritual and i'm filled by the Holy Spirit. So keeping the Sabbath can be a delight or a burden each week when it comes depending on which spirit is controlling your heart. Each one of the Ten commandments can be a delight if you allow the Holy Spirit to control your mind.
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
By earnest study we can see what is lawful today and what isn't. We should never say the old testament isn't relevant, because all of it is important even if it is just for us to see how they kept laws back then.
For example the sanctuary services, and day of atonement are not something i practice today but i do get a lot of insight and understanding about salvation from them.
Like you said above if we take time to study the laws we can work out which ones were fulfilled in Jesus and which ones are still important to practice or obey today.
i totally believe that "by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
but i also believe that "this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."
Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Keeping the law is a burden for everyone that isn't filled with the spirit.
Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
If we keep the law and it is a burden than it is useless because we are doing it for the wrong reason (Wrong spirit). But if i am filled by God's spirit and die to the flesh than keeping the law will be a delight because the law is spiritual and i'm filled by the Holy Spirit. So keeping the Sabbath can be a delight or a burden each week when it comes depending on which spirit is controlling your heart. Each one of the Ten commandments can be a delight if you allow the Holy Spirit to control your mind.
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners,
Don't use this as an excuse to say, the law isn't for you because you are righteous in Jesus.
Paul continues to say that he is the chief of sinners.
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
If Paul states that he is (i am) chief then i should say i am also a sinner. The law is there for sinners so it is there for me to see righteousness compared to my unrighteousness.
I believe i am righteous in Christ, (perfectly justified before God), but that doesn't mean i become perfect and never sin again.
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners,
Don't use this as an excuse to say, the law isn't for you because you are righteous in Jesus.
Paul continues to say that he is the chief of sinners.
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
If Paul states that he is (i am) chief then i should say i am also a sinner. The law is there for sinners so it is there for me to see righteousness compared to my unrighteousness.
I believe i am righteous in Christ, (perfectly justified before God), but that doesn't mean i become perfect and never sin again.
Your closing declaration is the one many tend to be incapable of grasping. In lieu of learning this many opt to say they are under grace and perfect because of Jesus christ.
That is an idle boast. We are, of course, viewed by our Father as free of the guilt of our trespassses, but the Work our Maker has begun in us will not be, and I suppose, cannot be completed until His Great and Glorious Day.
Until that Day we are not perfected, though seen as guilt-free. Unless one has a grip on this reality from above, his way is going to be filled with doubts and, yes, guilt.
All glor to God, amen.
That is an idle boast. We are, of course, viewed by our Father as free of the guilt of our trespassses, but the Work our Maker has begun in us will not be, and I suppose, cannot be completed until His Great and Glorious Day.
Until that Day we are not perfected, though seen as guilt-free. Unless one has a grip on this reality from above, his way is going to be filled with doubts and, yes, guilt.
All glor to God, amen.
Perfect in that sense means made or complete. We can only be made perfect by one who knew no sin. as new creature freely given from heaven a new spirit that will never die and a new heart led by the Spirit of Christ purified by the water of the word who indwells the new creation. Therefore having began the good work of salvation is us we can be assured he will finish it to the end.He is our confidence
His work of perfecting/completing us
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.A new heart also will Igive you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.Eze 36:25
His work of perfecting/completing us
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.A new heart also will Igive you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.Eze 36:25
A
we are not under the Laws, not anymore?yes
but the meaning of "under the Laws" is
about the laws:
Revelation 15:5
5 | And after these things I saw, and the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
we can see it in heaven,
Hebrews 8:5
5 | who serve 'that which is' a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, even as Moses is warned 'of God' when he is about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern that was showed thee in the mount.
the laws on the tablets of stone and the Holy Spirit was given are the same,
but there are someone who will change the law said the bible:
Daniel 7:25
25 | And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law;
but the meaning of "under the Laws" is
about the laws:
Revelation 15:5
5 | And after these things I saw, and the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
we can see it in heaven,
Hebrews 8:5
5 | who serve 'that which is' a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, even as Moses is warned 'of God' when he is about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern that was showed thee in the mount.
the laws on the tablets of stone and the Holy Spirit was given are the same,
but there are someone who will change the law said the bible:
Daniel 7:25
25 | And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law;
A
Galatians 3:12 - 14
12 | and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them.
13 | Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 | that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
what "the law is not of faith" here mean?
before, we(other nation) are under the curse of the law, but not all the law:
Acts 10:28
28 | and he said unto them, Ye yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to join himself or come unto one of another nation; and 'yet' unto me hath God showed that I should not call any man common or unclean
Colossians 2:13 - 14
13 | And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, 'I say', did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses;
14 | having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;
so not all the law but just it that against us:"law of circumcision"
about what thing the law:"Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me." is against us???????
or all of them?
so the law is not of faith mean, that someone who keep this law(of circumcision) is not of faith
Galatians 5:6
6 | For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
12 | and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them.
13 | Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 | that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
what "the law is not of faith" here mean?
before, we(other nation) are under the curse of the law, but not all the law:
Acts 10:28
28 | and he said unto them, Ye yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to join himself or come unto one of another nation; and 'yet' unto me hath God showed that I should not call any man common or unclean
Colossians 2:13 - 14
13 | And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, 'I say', did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses;
14 | having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;
so not all the law but just it that against us:"law of circumcision"
about what thing the law:"Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me." is against us???????
or all of them?
so the law is not of faith mean, that someone who keep this law(of circumcision) is not of faith
Galatians 5:6
6 | For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
We are to follow Gods will and not our own..... It is convenient not follow the Sabbath........ While Christ said we could help one another on the Sabbath.....like help an animal out of ditch..... Christ also said to follow the 10 commandment.... we cant just pick and choose which commandment to follow....
