SHOW DOWN AT HIGH NOON LAW VERSES THE CROSS!!!

[ServantStrike]

This is what God said.

There is a reason that more children are sexually abused by Protestant Clergy than Catholic, but nothing is made of it.

There is a reason that Atheist's obey God in practice on divorce more than Protestants.

These are some bold claims you're making. Care to back them up?

 

[2Thewaters]

The cross payed our penalty for sin and established the LAW for eternity as holy and just and good.
Jesus said
now keep it in the love of Jesus.



When a murder gets sentanced to death, and the lawyer takes the penalty
the relealesed man may not go kill more people
he will now be law abiding
Gods universe is run by a holy just and good law

The law is good
it brought the murder to trial
the penalty must be paid

Now go and sin no more
sin is the transgresson of the law


1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


so then

John 8:11 Jesus said unto her, ...go, and sin no more.

Go and keep the law

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

This is when the world religious beast is trying to kill all lawkeeprs

you are either a lawkeeper or a law breaker

lawabiding or lawbreaking

which do you think are going into heaven?

there are goats and sheep

you think goats are meek and mild and keep the law? No they are stubborn and resist keeping the law.

sheep say Baaa! and follow Jesus into the sabbath, into not stealing not lying not coveting

this is not a big topic
except people who dont want to repent keep twisting it with Bible verses

in revelation the few REMNANTS who get saved keep the commandments

then the book ends

its your life.





There is no problem with the law except to people who try to eliminate it so they dont have to repent
these are clouds without rain

 

[Dwark]

These are some bold claims you're making. Care to back them up?

Post #96 has links to articles on protestant child sex abuse.

And divorce statisitics


"The Barna Research Group, an evangelical Christian organization that does surveys and research to better understand what Christians believe and how they behave, studied divorce rates in America in 1999 and found surprising evidence that divorce is far lower among atheists than among conservative Christians — exactly the opposite of what they were probably expecting.

11% of all American adults are divorced
25% of all American adults have had at least one divorce


27% of born-again Christians have had at least one divorce
24% of all non-born-again Christians have been divorced


21% of atheists have been divorced
21% of Catholics and Lutherans have been divorced
24% of Mormons have been divorced
25% of mainstream Protestants have been divorced
29% of Baptists have been divorced
24% of nondenominational, independent Protestants have been divorced


27% of people in the South and Midwest have been divorced
26% of people in the West have been divorced
19% of people in the Northwest and Northeast have been divorced"---http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x296621

Google it, read a number of them.

 

[chubbena]

Post #96 has links to articles on protestant child sex abuse.

And divorce statisitics


"The Barna Research Group, an evangelical Christian organization that does surveys and research to better understand what Christians believe and how they behave, studied divorce rates in America in 1999 and found surprising evidence that divorce is far lower among atheists than among conservative Christians — exactly the opposite of what they were probably expecting.

11% of all American adults are divorced
25% of all American adults have had at least one divorce


27% of born-again Christians have had at least one divorce
24% of all non-born-again Christians have been divorced


21% of atheists have been divorced
21% of Catholics and Lutherans have been divorced
24% of Mormons have been divorced
25% of mainstream Protestants have been divorced
29% of Baptists have been divorced
24% of nondenominational, independent Protestants have been divorced


27% of people in the South and Midwest have been divorced
26% of people in the West have been divorced
19% of people in the Northwest and Northeast have been divorced"---http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x296621

Google it, read a number of them.

If only the statistics could be more detailed. Like among the "born again" Christians who divorced the percentages of "upholding the law" and "upholding the cross".
Or do a poll here - how many has divorced or has extramarital affairs - to make the argument more relevant.
But then who will tell the truth?

 

[ServantStrike]

Post #96 has links to articles on protestant child sex abuse.

And divorce statisitics


"The Barna Research Group, an evangelical Christian organization that does surveys and research to better understand what Christians believe and how they behave, studied divorce rates in America in 1999 and found surprising evidence that divorce is far lower among atheists than among conservative Christians — exactly the opposite of what they were probably expecting.

11% of all American adults are divorced
25% of all American adults have had at least one divorce


27% of born-again Christians have had at least one divorce
24% of all non-born-again Christians have been divorced


21% of atheists have been divorced
21% of Catholics and Lutherans have been divorced
24% of Mormons have been divorced
25% of mainstream Protestants have been divorced
29% of Baptists have been divorced
24% of nondenominational, independent Protestants have been divorced


27% of people in the South and Midwest have been divorced
26% of people in the West have been divorced
19% of people in the Northwest and Northeast have been divorced"---http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x296621

Google it, read a number of them.

Do you think divorce statistics paint an accurate picture for a church that has traditionally held a very bleak outlook on divorce? Perhaps the numbers are just as high and there are more Cathloics who do not get divorced due to guilt.

One article from huffington post and then two articles quoting the exact same man who says it's his personal opinion that sexual abuse is more common in evangelical circles is not thorough documentation. That last article says there are ~250 claims from three insurers, that means less than a thousand cases a year among the three largest insurers. Do you know how many million people go to church?

You're hardly making a good case for "protestant churches have more sexual abuse" here. Not to mention if you are discussing the United States, that's hardly a fair representation. There are less Catholics than there are protestants in the US, so of course the number could be higher for the protestants, the catholics have less people in the church (and thus less potential for abuse).

 

[Dwark]

Do you think divorce statistics paint an accurate picture for a church that has traditionally held a very bleak outlook on divorce?

Yes, because you either get divorced or you don't. It's kinda like being pregnant, you are or you aren't.

One article from huffington post and then two articles quoting the exact same man who says it's his personal opinion that sexual abuse is more common in evangelical circles is not thorough documentation. That last article says there are ~250 claims from three insurers, that means less than a thousand cases a year among the three largest insurers. Do you know how many million people go to church?

You're hardly making a good case for "protestant churches have more sexual abuse" here. Not to mention if you are discussing the United States, that's hardly a fair representation. There are less Catholics than there are protestants in the US, so of course the number could be higher for the protestants, the catholics have less people in the church (and thus less potential for abuse).

The data was taken from insurance company claims. That alone demonstrates Protestants have more sexual abuse problems than Catholics.

The data is the data, arguing against it only reveals your unwillingness to accept the truth.

But hey, all the protestants don't have to worry about it because even though "….they commit pedophile and divorce a thousand times a day they are still saved." Right?

 

[homwardbound]

All these talks without listening to the author and the finisher.
Someone mentioned Matt 5:17-19. No one cares.
Here I'm quoting one of Yeshua's teachings: You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sisterwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’s answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Did He nullify His teaching on the cross?

Rather fulfilled them all perfectly for us to be able to be given new ife from Father, but first he needed to present us:
[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So when you believe he did what he did then before God saying Thank you, by Son, ask for the new life he came to give you in the Spirit not the flesh
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[homwardbound]

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

There is this little thing called the resurrection that saves us.

Is that not here for us now in the Spirits of our minds?
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Maybe starting with:
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Just a little steak to eat, it is finished and all that is left is for us to either believe God or not, not for the taking granted of, rather appreciate, so deep, that you can't help but to Love back as God has loved us, for I know:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

 

[chubbena]

Yes, because you either get divorced or you don't. It's kinda like being pregnant, you are or you aren't.




The data was taken from insurance company claims. That alone demonstrates Protestants have more sexual abuse problems than Catholics.

The data is the data, arguing against it only reveals your unwillingness to accept the truth.

But hey, all the protestants don't have to worry about it because even though "….they commit pedophile and divorce a thousand times a day they are still saved." Right?

I really don't see the relevancy to the OP. Would you please elaborate one more time?

 

[chubbena]

Rather fulfilled them all perfectly for us to be able to be given new ife from Father, but first he needed to present us:
Colossians 1:22

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So when you believe he did what he did then before God saying Thank you, by Son, ask for the new life he came to give you in the Spirit not the flesh
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

The question remains: Did He nullify His teachings on the cross?

 

[directline2iam]

First of all, it isn't the law verses anything. The law and the gospel work hand in hand and are both given to us by the Father.

 

[ServantStrike]

Yes, because you either get divorced or you don't. It's kinda like being pregnant, you are or you aren't.




The data was taken from insurance company claims. That alone demonstrates Protestants have more sexual abuse problems than Catholics.

The data is the data, arguing against it only reveals your unwillingness to accept the truth.

But hey, all the protestants don't have to worry about it because even though "….they commit pedophile and divorce a thousand times a day they are still saved." Right?

No, it does not demonstrate anything, other than there are roughly 750 claims a year across insured protestant churches in the United States. In order for it to even begin to be the basis for a discussion, you'd have to give insurance data for catholic churches in the united states. Or some other form of comparable data.

 

[Yahshua]

First of all, it isn't the law verses anything. The law and the gospel work hand in hand and are both given to us by the Father.

I agree. I think there's a false dichotomy established in the title of this thread. It's not...

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]The Law[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]VS.[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]The Cross[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

...But rather the law - like the cross - is an axis (or hinge if you will) for what's really doing battle...

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]The Flesh >[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]The Cross[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]< The Spirit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]The Letter >[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]The Law[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]< The Spirit[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

With the consequences being...

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]The Flesh >[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]The Cross[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]< The Spirit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]The Letter >[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]The Law[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]< The Spirit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Death >[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]VS.[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]< Life[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

But unfortunately we fall into our labels.

This may be why Kerry hasn't received many replies from "lawyers" as he calls them (that or maybe the fact that many could tell what spirit he was of when starting this thread).

Like when the apostles said, "come let us call fire down upon [the Samaritans]". But then Christ replied, "You do not know what spirit you are of. Come..." The apostles felt completely justified in their own minds, but Christ proved their spirit was completely wrong.

If the throne of judgment was that very moment, it would have been better for the Samaritans than it would've been for those Apostles.

 

[RedTent]

God created the world to run by law. God showed us how we could operate in the world He created in the best way, first by showing Adam, then through Noah, and God told us how an orderly government could be set up through Moses. Christ told us more of how this law that God established the world with works, Christ said it must be with spirit and truth.

The book of Job explains so very well about the absolute law and order that God established, for instance we are to watch the stars and the heavens.

There are many scriptures explaining law to us. For instance, as we study it we can see our sin, and we are told we cannot take our sin with us into eternal life. God set up a way for atonement from the beginning, Much of the New Testament is telling us of how the atonement and forgiveness we have through Christ is much superior to what was before.

No where is scripture are we to think that the law God created when God created the world changes. Christ changed how we are forgiven, but Christ would not change how the law was created. The cross is in no way against the law, the cross gives perfect forgiveness from sin that we can learn about as we study law.

 

[Isdaniel]

Can anyman change the law of nature ?

 

[homwardbound]

The question remains: Did He nullify His teachings on the cross?

No he did not come to destroy the Law, rather fulfill and he did do just that, then Christ went to the cross, and as he was about to give up the ghost, he yelled:
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What was finished, did he fulfill all Father sent him here to do or not? He sais it was to fulfill the Law and Prophets, not destroy, so what did this death accomplish?

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

So what did this death of Christ do for us?
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So if the death did that for us what will the life do?
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Transferred from death to life
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

[homwardbound]

God created the world to run by law. God showed us how we could operate in the world He created in the best way, first by showing Adam, then through Noah, and God told us how an orderly government could be set up through Moses. Christ told us more of how this law that God established the world with works, Christ said it must be with spirit and truth.

The book of Job explains so very well about the absolute law and order that God established, for instance we are to watch the stars and the heavens.

There are many scriptures explaining law to us. For instance, as we study it we can see our sin, and we are told we cannot take our sin with us into eternal life. God set up a way for atonement from the beginning, Much of the New Testament is telling us of how the atonement and forgiveness we have through Christ is much superior to what was before.

No where is scripture are we to think that the law God created when God created the world changes. Christ changed how we are forgiven, but Christ would not change how the law was created. The cross is in no way against the law, the cross gives perfect forgiveness from sin that we can learn about as we study law.

Sister, was Law needed before the fall? God created it all perfect. It was the choice of Adam and Eve that brought in destruction, not God. God told them what would happen plain and simple fi they did eat from.
Not God's fault, and neither is it ours, being born after the similitude of Adam and Eve.
So God so had Mercy on us all through Son the only way to Father through the Son's redemptive work, period
God has had Mercy on us all, so maybe time to respond with thanksgiving and praise looking back at what has been done for us by God through Son as King David was looking forward when he said
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
Just someone to appreciate, cause without Christ, death and resurrection we would still be in our sins.

 

[homwardbound]

Can anyman change the law of nature ?

Christ did
From flesh to Spirit, giving out new life in the Spirit of God through the resurrected Christ is this done for us to renew our minds to God's mindset through Son's finished work the cross
Those that have received have past from death to life
We are born again in the Spirit of God through the cross. It does not stop at the death, that is the start for us to start reckoning ourselves dead to flesh also daily and thus alive daily in the spirit of God where it is today that only God can be served in Spirit and truth

 

[Drett]

I have not received any answer on these points., if you could please address the points raised concerning

1. Jesus saying the law will not be abolished until the heavens disappear and

2. Jesus told his followers to learn the law from the Pharisees and practice it just before he ascended into heaven.

3. When Jesus told the apostles to go preach to the Gentiles, he did not tell them the law no longer applied because the rock of his church was still referring to meat being unclean long after he ascended.

Quoting contradicting verses is not helpful for your argument. These threads will go on forever if people keep their minds closed.

 

[chubbena]

No he did not come to destroy the Law, rather fulfill and he did do just that, then Christ went to the cross, and as he was about to give up the ghost, he yelled:
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What was finished, did he fulfill all Father sent him here to do or not? He sais it was to fulfill the Law and Prophets, not destroy, so what did this death accomplish?

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

So what did this death of Christ do for us?
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So if the death did that for us what will the life do?
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Transferred from death to life
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Again the question remains unanswered: Did He nullify His teachings on the cross? I'm not talking about the law here but rather HIS OWN TEACHINGS.
Many could only see the significance of love in His teachings. What about His other teachings such as Matt 5:21-32? Are they nullified and nailed to the cross?