Dispensation, Dispensational, Dispensationalism, Dispensationalist
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Amen, Zone. God bless you. 
Ask dispensationalists to show you just one verse that says the body of Christ will be raptured before tribulation and they will provide rhetorics and emotional responses: “oh, we are not appointed us to wrath therefore we will be whisked to heaven before Jacob’s trouble...blah blah blah". If your doctrine is not in the pages of scripture it’s time to let go of it no matter how comforting it is instead of dogmatically defending it. That’s something I’ve learned in my years of being on this forum.
Ask dispensationalists to show you just one verse that says the body of Christ will be raptured before tribulation and they will provide rhetorics and emotional responses: “oh, we are not appointed us to wrath therefore we will be whisked to heaven before Jacob’s trouble...blah blah blah". If your doctrine is not in the pages of scripture it’s time to let go of it no matter how comforting it is instead of dogmatically defending it. That’s something I’ve learned in my years of being on this forum.
Dispensationalists Want Lots of Jews Wiped Out
Uploaded on Feb 22, 2010
Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu recently proclaimed the fulfillment of the prophecy in Ezekiel 37. Dispensationalist Jan Markell is excited that an authoritative Israelite is on the Bible prophecy bandwagon. What dispensationalists are not telling Israelites is that they believe two-thirds of them are potentially about to be wiped out! Gary DeMar reports on this and reflects on the errors of interpretations in Old Testament Scriptures that dispensationalists make.
I know that this is very long but it is worthwhile. I encourage you to watch it. It has helped me a lot.
[video=youtube;bVAgf6O0YCU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVAgf6O0YCU[/video]
Part 2: Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology - Part 2 - YouTube
[video=youtube;bVAgf6O0YCU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVAgf6O0YCU[/video]
Part 2: Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology - Part 2 - YouTube
...
“Who is the True Israel?” (by John M. Otis) Pt. 1
“Who is the True Israel?” (by John M. Otis) Pt. 1 | Against Dispensationalism
....
95 THESES AGAINST DISPENSATIONALISM
95 Theses | Against Dispensationalism
“Who is the True Israel?” (by John M. Otis) Pt. 1
“Who is the True Israel?” (by John M. Otis) Pt. 1 | Against Dispensationalism
....
95 THESES AGAINST DISPENSATIONALISM
95 Theses | Against Dispensationalism
No Zone, Dispensationalists such as myself recognize and acknowledge the natural divisions which are ALREADY in the Scriptures. We simply obey the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15. While people who do not rightly divide the word of truth have to spiritualize and explain away a lot of the passages in the Scriptures.
And Shame on you Zone for your willful ignorance of Dispensational truth.
2
The fire of protection is real
Zec 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
Because God is real.
Reading the bible without prayer will always lead you astray
Reading the bible and asking God to give you the holy spirit, and to show you where YOU ARE WRONG will always lead you into truth
So, is your bible study correct?
Answer: did you pray and admit where you were wrong yet?
if you have not prayed for grace, somewhere you are not being led into truth
to go INTO truth you have to COME from error ! get it?
our whole hearts are wicked selfish things
we need to go into error
get it?
to be led INTO truth you have to ADMIT you are out of the truth
if you are studying to prove true a false daoctrine from a church
, you will never find the truth
because you are finding and looking for error in the bible
and you will find error....
True bible study is by the humble student
who says
I know nothing
show me the right way
BECASUE I AM ON THE WRONG PATH without you
then when you find truth
you say
I love you Lord make this truth appear in me
god is always right
you are always wrong
God is infinite
you are fallible
everything in your brain is trained error
everything in the bible is more truth
with that attitude you can never be lead INTO error but away from it.
Zec 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
Because God is real.
Reading the bible without prayer will always lead you astray
Reading the bible and asking God to give you the holy spirit, and to show you where YOU ARE WRONG will always lead you into truth
So, is your bible study correct?
Answer: did you pray and admit where you were wrong yet?
if you have not prayed for grace, somewhere you are not being led into truth
to go INTO truth you have to COME from error ! get it?
our whole hearts are wicked selfish things
we need to go into error
get it?
to be led INTO truth you have to ADMIT you are out of the truth
if you are studying to prove true a false daoctrine from a church
, you will never find the truth
because you are finding and looking for error in the bible
and you will find error....
True bible study is by the humble student
who says
I know nothing
show me the right way
BECASUE I AM ON THE WRONG PATH without you
then when you find truth
you say
I love you Lord make this truth appear in me
god is always right
you are always wrong
God is infinite
you are fallible
everything in your brain is trained error
everything in the bible is more truth
with that attitude you can never be lead INTO error but away from it.
The Myth of the
200 Million Man Army
Of the Kings of the East
by R. A. Coombes
by R. A. Coombes
The actual, original Greek texts do not support such a conclusion. By the way, did you happen to note any particular correlation between the two passages? Aside from the fact that the Euphrates river is mentioned there is nothing else of a corollary. I mean, did you notice the term "kings of the East" in Rev 9: 15-16? I didn't. In fact, if you look at those two verses you clearly see 4 angels being described. Then in verse 16 you see "army of horsemen." So who are the horsemen? I take it that the verse is referring to angelic forces and not to human soldiers. The description of verses 17 and 18 certainly seem to indicate an ability beyond that of mere men. But there's a more practical reason for taking such a view. Let's take a look at a very practical reason why the notion of a 200 million man army is simply out of the question. We'll do this before we examine the actual Greek text itself.From a practicality standpoint consider the logistical facts of a 200 million man army. Such a number is almost the equivalent population of the United States of America. For such a vast quantity of people, you have to remember the logistical support would be a virtual nightmare not to mention an impossibility when one accounts for the geographical challenges. How are you going to transport 200 million men from China across the most foreboding mountain ranges in the world? How are you going to transport them quickly? How are they going to eat, drink, maintain hygiene, sleep, and remain supplied with food, water, and fuel, not to mention providing them with the necessary equipment and weaponry? Remember, we're talking about a trek over thousands of miles including the highest mountains and the most imposing of deserts and we have virtually no roadways to work with over much of that distance. Do you remember the 1990-91 Persian Gulf War? It took the US 6 months to airlift 500,000 men and their equipment into the gulf region. The US had a far faster and better transport capability than China has now. Still, at that rate of the Gulf War, it would take 200 years for China to move 200 million men to Jerusalem and Israel, proper. Remember, the Biblical text is indicating that such a group would be crossing the Euphrates river by land and not by air, meaning it would take even longer because overland travel is much slower and we would have to allow for massive traffic jams and bad weather too.Now the proponent of the Hal Lindsey notion could point to the "Silk Road" that runs from China, skirting past India and going through the mighty Himalayas. Of course, to do so would mean travelling through parts of the old Soviet central Asian republics. Such a route is not exactly going through friendly territory for China.However, let's put aside such minor difficulties as the route and focus on the sheer logistics of putting together a convoy of such magnitude that would move 200 million men in an army. This is gonna make for one very, very long parade. And make no mistake about this parade, it won't be full of funny shriner clowns running around in little noisy cars doing repeated circles throwing out candy to the onlookers. If we were extremely conservative, we could estimate at the minimum 10 MILLION vehicles. Now such a number would need to include, tank carriers, fuel trucks, armored personnel carriers, food trucks, command vehicles, trucks carrying larger weapons, radar, communications trucks, and of course, they'd have to carry their own water supplies through much of the terrain.
Cont
Now let's consider the issue of the roads. The route in question doesn't have expressways with multiple lanes of traffic for heading westbound, or eastbound for that matter. At best, you can expect 2 lane asphalt highways. At worst, no roads. But for sake of the argument, lets suppose that we've got a great 2 lane highway, with no potholes, totally smooth that stretches all the way from the great wall of China to Jerusalem and the valley of Armageddon. Now remember that would put it as going through the Himalayas, the Central Asian Republics, then on down through Afghanistan and then into Iraq and Jordanian deserts before eventually reaching Israel. But its all 2 lanes of traffic. So how far would our convoy stretch out?Let's figure out how long our parade would be. Let's be conservative in estimating that each vehicle occupies about 40 yards of road space including the vehicle itself and the distance between vehicles, the length for 10 million vehicles would be over 225,000 miles!!! Now that's several times around the planet. Now some of you might be thinking, maybe we could move these folks at different times, and maybe stagger the departures. If you did so, then have the problem issue of running out of time to get there. In reality, this convoy would need to have gotten started decades ago in order to get there by now. They couldn't simply wait for the start of the Tribulation period, they'd have to go decades in advance. Also consider too, that it isn't a day trip drive from China to Israel. They gotta pull off somewhere to sleep and take bathroom breaks, prepare and eat food etc. There are very few Motel 6's between China and Israel, I'd guess. Or few of any sort of lodging facilities. Probably not a lot of truck stops for fuel or greasy food, nor travelers camp grounds either.Now, if you're the eternal optimist in persisting in such a notion as a 200 million man army, then answer me one more thing. Where are you going to put 200 million Chinese troops into the valley of Armageddon? It would be impossible to get 200 million Chinese in the entire nation of Israel, let alone in such a valley and plain as Armageddon. Not to mention the problems of just trying to get them there period, not to mention trying to get them there 'on time.' So now that we've looked at the impracticalities of the logistics of such a notion from an empirical standpoint, we should examine the issue from a textual standpoint. What does the original Greek text mean in Revelation 9: 16 when it talks about the number of the horsemen? Who are these horsemen?I suspect that Revelation 9:16 is telling us about supernatural beings, or demons or fallen angels if you will. The possibility also exists that it is talking about human cavalrymen but one thing is clear. It is NOT talking about a 200 million man army.The Greek word used in verse 16 is "muriadohn" and it consists within the phrase: "and the number of the bodies of soldiers of the cavalry was dismuriades muriadohn."It is the word we use in English for "myriads" and the first term has a prefix of "dis" which means "twice"… i.e. "twice myriads of myriads." Now one could try to translate that as meaning 2x 10,000 x 10,000. However, to do so is to completely misunderstand the way in which the people of that time used and referred to numbers and arithmetic. It is interesting to note that the ancient cultures didn't have much regard for very high numbers. After a certain point, high numbers would just tend to blur in the mind, so why bother keeping count? We find this concept in Genesis 32:12 in which Jacob is told that his descendants will be counted as the sand of the sea. In other words, it can't or shouldn't be bothered to be counted. The people of the Biblical era just didn't have any use for terms that ran into the millions. Therefore, they would create "expressions" or idioms to describe the idea that it was not worth taking the time to count. In other words, "it’s a bunch."Now on this issue of Revelation 9:16 the noted Greek Lexographer, Robert H. Mounce observed in his book "The Book of Revelation" (page 201) [ Eerdmans Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI, © 1977] Attempts to reduce this expression to arithmetic miss the point. A "double myriad of myriads" is an indefinite number of incalculable immensity. Reference to a TIME article which reports the People's Republic of China as having a militia of 200,000,000 is interesting but of no special help.To further underscore Mounce's position, we also have the noted Lexographical team of Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich and Danker who over the years have edited the now highly esteemed and mostly widely trusted Christian Greek-English Lexicon: "A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" (a.k.a. "B-A-G-D). On page 199 it is stated about the phrase and terms "An indefinite number of incalculable immensity is indicated (indefinite as anarithmetoi murides of Theopompus in peri upsous 43, 2).So there you have it. The dictionary definitions don't allow for the phrase to be taken as referring to 200 million. The sheer practicality of the matter doesn't allow for it either. Clearly, "Houston, we have a problem" needs to be issued to Mission Control. Somewhere along the way, some of our popular Biblical Prophecy experts got sidetracked into a hermeneutical rabbit trail. Anybody got a rope or a ladder so we can get 'em out? J
The Myth of the 200 Million Man Army of the Kings of the East
Now let's consider the issue of the roads. The route in question doesn't have expressways with multiple lanes of traffic for heading westbound, or eastbound for that matter. At best, you can expect 2 lane asphalt highways. At worst, no roads. But for sake of the argument, lets suppose that we've got a great 2 lane highway, with no potholes, totally smooth that stretches all the way from the great wall of China to Jerusalem and the valley of Armageddon. Now remember that would put it as going through the Himalayas, the Central Asian Republics, then on down through Afghanistan and then into Iraq and Jordanian deserts before eventually reaching Israel. But its all 2 lanes of traffic. So how far would our convoy stretch out?Let's figure out how long our parade would be. Let's be conservative in estimating that each vehicle occupies about 40 yards of road space including the vehicle itself and the distance between vehicles, the length for 10 million vehicles would be over 225,000 miles!!! Now that's several times around the planet. Now some of you might be thinking, maybe we could move these folks at different times, and maybe stagger the departures. If you did so, then have the problem issue of running out of time to get there. In reality, this convoy would need to have gotten started decades ago in order to get there by now. They couldn't simply wait for the start of the Tribulation period, they'd have to go decades in advance. Also consider too, that it isn't a day trip drive from China to Israel. They gotta pull off somewhere to sleep and take bathroom breaks, prepare and eat food etc. There are very few Motel 6's between China and Israel, I'd guess. Or few of any sort of lodging facilities. Probably not a lot of truck stops for fuel or greasy food, nor travelers camp grounds either.Now, if you're the eternal optimist in persisting in such a notion as a 200 million man army, then answer me one more thing. Where are you going to put 200 million Chinese troops into the valley of Armageddon? It would be impossible to get 200 million Chinese in the entire nation of Israel, let alone in such a valley and plain as Armageddon. Not to mention the problems of just trying to get them there period, not to mention trying to get them there 'on time.' So now that we've looked at the impracticalities of the logistics of such a notion from an empirical standpoint, we should examine the issue from a textual standpoint. What does the original Greek text mean in Revelation 9: 16 when it talks about the number of the horsemen? Who are these horsemen?I suspect that Revelation 9:16 is telling us about supernatural beings, or demons or fallen angels if you will. The possibility also exists that it is talking about human cavalrymen but one thing is clear. It is NOT talking about a 200 million man army.The Greek word used in verse 16 is "muriadohn" and it consists within the phrase: "and the number of the bodies of soldiers of the cavalry was dismuriades muriadohn."It is the word we use in English for "myriads" and the first term has a prefix of "dis" which means "twice"… i.e. "twice myriads of myriads." Now one could try to translate that as meaning 2x 10,000 x 10,000. However, to do so is to completely misunderstand the way in which the people of that time used and referred to numbers and arithmetic. It is interesting to note that the ancient cultures didn't have much regard for very high numbers. After a certain point, high numbers would just tend to blur in the mind, so why bother keeping count? We find this concept in Genesis 32:12 in which Jacob is told that his descendants will be counted as the sand of the sea. In other words, it can't or shouldn't be bothered to be counted. The people of the Biblical era just didn't have any use for terms that ran into the millions. Therefore, they would create "expressions" or idioms to describe the idea that it was not worth taking the time to count. In other words, "it’s a bunch."Now on this issue of Revelation 9:16 the noted Greek Lexographer, Robert H. Mounce observed in his book "The Book of Revelation" (page 201) [ Eerdmans Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI, © 1977] Attempts to reduce this expression to arithmetic miss the point. A "double myriad of myriads" is an indefinite number of incalculable immensity. Reference to a TIME article which reports the People's Republic of China as having a militia of 200,000,000 is interesting but of no special help.To further underscore Mounce's position, we also have the noted Lexographical team of Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich and Danker who over the years have edited the now highly esteemed and mostly widely trusted Christian Greek-English Lexicon: "A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" (a.k.a. "B-A-G-D). On page 199 it is stated about the phrase and terms "An indefinite number of incalculable immensity is indicated (indefinite as anarithmetoi murides of Theopompus in peri upsous 43, 2).So there you have it. The dictionary definitions don't allow for the phrase to be taken as referring to 200 million. The sheer practicality of the matter doesn't allow for it either. Clearly, "Houston, we have a problem" needs to be issued to Mission Control. Somewhere along the way, some of our popular Biblical Prophecy experts got sidetracked into a hermeneutical rabbit trail. Anybody got a rope or a ladder so we can get 'em out? J
The Myth of the 200 Million Man Army of the Kings of the East
T
The "catching away" of a remnant of faithful people who fear God, and before God exercises his judgement is Biblical truth and all over the Bible.
The very first recorded instance of a "catching away/rapture" is in the first book of the Bible.
The flood and Noah and 8 souls saved by the ark is an example of a catching away. The story of Lot and his family is another.
The Prophet Jeremiah escaping exile is another. The fact is, God has always caught away his faithful before destruction/judgement is brought upon the world.
I dislike the term rapture, because it is a man made word, but make no mistake folks, the Bible shows us clearly that God will not suffer his faithful to go through any kind of judgement/tribulation, that is bringing judgement on those that do not turn to him.
The very first recorded instance of a "catching away/rapture" is in the first book of the Bible.
The flood and Noah and 8 souls saved by the ark is an example of a catching away. The story of Lot and his family is another.
The Prophet Jeremiah escaping exile is another. The fact is, God has always caught away his faithful before destruction/judgement is brought upon the world.
I dislike the term rapture, because it is a man made word, but make no mistake folks, the Bible shows us clearly that God will not suffer his faithful to go through any kind of judgement/tribulation, that is bringing judgement on those that do not turn to him.
T
"Unto the economy of the fullness of the times, to head up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, in Him; - -." Eph. 1:10.
"The times refers to the ages. The fullness of the times will be when the new heaven and new earth appear after all the dispensations of God in all the ages have been completed. Altogether there are four ages: the age of sin (Adam), the age of the law (Moses), the age of grace (Christ) and the age of the kingdom (the millennium)." RcV.
"The times refers to the ages. The fullness of the times will be when the new heaven and new earth appear after all the dispensations of God in all the ages have been completed. Altogether there are four ages: the age of sin (Adam), the age of the law (Moses), the age of grace (Christ) and the age of the kingdom (the millennium)." RcV.
By the way the verse DOES NOT SAY MEN. It says mounted troops.
Revelation 9
Verse 16: The number of mounted troops was 200 million. Futurist interpreters often insist that this number is to be taken literally, and a number of them have hypothesized that this must refer to a future army that will come out of China. Sam Storms says that in the Greek, the expression denotes “a ‘double myriad of myriads,’ a ‘myriad’ typically equivalent to 10,000.” It seems that this number is simply symbolic of a very large and overwhelming army. It’s also possible that there were 200 million demons unleashed upon the land of Judea. David Chilton sums up the significance of this number with the following statements:
A: They did not repent of [1] the works of their hands [2] worshiping demons [3] idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood [4] murders [5] sorceries [6] sexual immorality [7] thefts.Josephus says this of mid-first century Jerusalem:
Revelation 9
Verse 16: The number of mounted troops was 200 million. Futurist interpreters often insist that this number is to be taken literally, and a number of them have hypothesized that this must refer to a future army that will come out of China. Sam Storms says that in the Greek, the expression denotes “a ‘double myriad of myriads,’ a ‘myriad’ typically equivalent to 10,000.” It seems that this number is simply symbolic of a very large and overwhelming army. It’s also possible that there were 200 million demons unleashed upon the land of Judea. David Chilton sums up the significance of this number with the following statements:
An innumerable army is advancing upon Jerusalem from the Euphrates, the origin of Israel’s traditional enemies; it is a fierce, hostile, demonic force sent by God in answer to His people’s prayers for vengeance. In short, this army is the fulfillment of all the warnings in the law and the prophets of an avenging horde sent to punish the covenant breakers. The horrors described in Deuteronomy 28 were to be visited upon this evil generation (see especially verses 49-68).
Q: What did the survivors of these plagues not repent of?A: They did not repent of [1] the works of their hands [2] worshiping demons [3] idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood [4] murders [5] sorceries [6] sexual immorality [7] thefts.Josephus says this of mid-first century Jerusalem:
…neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was from the beginning of the world… I suppose that had the Romans made any longer delay in coming against those villains, the city would either have been swallowed up by the ground opening upon them, or been overflowed by water, or else been destroyed by such thunder as the country of Sodom perished by, for it had brought forth a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed (Kenneth Gentry, ibid, p. 249).
David Chilton notes that Jerusalem (see the reference to the “great city” in Rev. 11:8, and then compare with 16:19, 17:18, 18:10, 18:16-21) is described in Revelation 18 as “a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird” (18:2). He adds:The entire generation became increasingly demon-possessed; their progressive national insanity is apparent as one reads through the New Testament, and its horrifying final stages are depicted in the pages of Josephus’ The Jewish War: the loss of all ability to reason, the frenzied mobs attacking one another, the deluded multitudes following after the most transparently false prophets, the crazed and desperate chase after food, the mass murders, executions, and suicides, the fathers slaughtering their own families and the mothers eating their own children. Satan and the host of hell simply swarmed throughout the land of Israel and consumed the apostates.
Revelation Chapter 9 | Pursuing Truth