Poligamy in the Bible...

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mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
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#41
Polygamy is wrong. Having sex with more than one person while in a relationship with all of them is wrong. Why would we ever think that polygamy is right? Just because you can get a paper and say it's legal now (in Utah)? Show in the Bible where God or Jesus said having sex with multiple people is okay. Look what happened when Sarah sent her servant in to Abraham. Eternal enemies of the Jews, God's chosen people. Seriously? It seems to me that the one type of sin people are most anxious to have approved and stamped "okay" is always sexual.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#42
. David could of have as many wives and concubines that his heart desires, but he had strayed from God for Bathsheba.

Hosea 1:2
When the Lord began to speak through Hosea, the Lord said to him, “Go, marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her, for like an adulterous wife this land is guilty of unfaithfulness to the Lord.”

Hosea 3:The Lord said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another man and is an adulteress. Love her as the Lord loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.”
You are stating that God says it is OK to have concubines, I don't think there is one scripture in the bible that says this is so. There are many scriptures that tell how God wants marriage to be, and that when we become one with a partner, that is to be honored.

The book of Hosea is illustrating God's love for us, even though we are not true to Him. It is not saying that the principles God established when God established sex and marriage were changed.
 

Oak

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Dec 19, 2013
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#43
Thank you for your response, I will check these things out. I'm not defending Satan or any of those things I practice none of those things, I was just saying how they were used in the Bible as far as I could tell.

The context is always somewhat arguable especially when someone is reading from one version and someone else another. I usually read the KJV.

@Oak In regards to your many statements in your first post of Page 2. I am not sure if what you are saying is intentionally corrupting and falsifying the Bible or rather you really don't know, but I find it quite unsettling how you try to justify sin especially with lies and half-truth. This bothers me a great deal because it shows that you my brother are being mislead. However I have taken the time to go over each of these claims to find if there is any truth to them.

First let's start with your claim that God created sin. This is all ready well put away as it is clearly Mankind and Satan's fault that sin enterred the World. As God is Life and sin is the antithesis of life, so God did not create sin. In the Garden of Eden there was no sin until Mankind brought it into the World.

Now let's start where you did not lie, but told half truth. This is the account of Er, Onan, Judah and Tamar. This story can be found in chapter 38 of Genesis. First you are correct the Creator sent Er and Onan down to the nethers because they are wicked and sinful and their own sin brought them Death (and it should b noted God also promises to raise Er and Onan back up on Judgement Day along with all people that ever lived.) You are also correct that Judah slept with Tamar because she decieved him. Did God tell Tamar to do this? No. Did God tell Judah to do this? No. Even Judah admits at the end of the chapter with his own lips that he is sinful, and even proclaims he is more sinful than Tamar for forsaking his promise to marry her to his son Shelah.

Second, yet again a half-truth. Eve does bear responsibility for bringing sin into the World, though remember this is because she was fed a lie by Satan the first sinner. This also does not negate Adam of sin because Adam chose to listen to Eve instead of God just as Eve chose to listen to Satan instead of God just as Satan chose to weave lies and commit idolatry instead of listen to God. Also since Eve is literally made out of Adam's flesh so too any sin she committed is Adam's sin. There is no such thing as premeditated sin, there only is or is not sin. I also found your statement in saying Eve brought sin into the world to be a great contradiction to your own first statement saying God made sin.

You say God condones murder, yet this is not true. Look how the sin of murder grieves Cain and his progeny Lamech (Lamech father of Tubal-Cain, not to be confused with Lamech father of Noah.) You say God condones abortion, but again you are incorrect, though I will add though that in many parts of Ecclesiates The Preacher son of David (allegedly Solomon) does not condone abortion, but he does ponder upon the fact that perhaps it is better not to be born at all than to live in this wicked world that Man hath made wicked.

You say God made unicorns, and this maybe true as far as I am aware the earliest mention I know of unicorns is by Marco Polo, and this is what the Ancients called the rhinocerous which still lives on Earth today. And it is true God made The Dragon (which is Satan) and Satan forsook God, thus Satan dooms himself.

And you say God made witches, but this is false for you either know what witchcraft is and are therefore trying to justify it or you do not understand what witchcraft is. Witchcraft is when you think you are using demons, but really they are using you. This is why witchcraft is sinful, because it hurts even you and those around you. Same with homosexuality, homosexuality is merely shame and sexual abuse and thus it is sinful because it hurts you and other people. The same is comparable to polygamy. God said those who sin sexually sin against themselves. He was right and there are countless examples of this outside of the Bible even in today's time for proof. God did not choose this for you, you chose this yourself.

You say that the Giants are offspring of Enoch, which really makes me wonder about whether you follow the occultists or are just a fool. You should know it say numerous times the Giants are the offspring of the fallen angels and humans. The giant gene also carried over into the post-Flood World with Nimrod, son of Cush, son of Ham, given as its first resurgence.

Now your blatant falsehoods: Let's start with goodly Esther. Esther the Bible say was a virgin when she married Ahasuerus (Xerxes I.) In fact Esther 2:17 specifically says Xerxes loved her above all the virgins in his harem. Lol though you could make a solid argument that Xerxes certainly was over-sexual and was definantly a big time polygamist. Esther is a good example of how even though her husband was sinful, because of her goodness and suffering through the toils of this World she was able to save her people and be one of the greatest heroes of all time.

(As for David's son raping and enslaving servants this is either a fabrication or a corruption of the story of Amnon. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you refer to Amnon.) In regards to Amnon (2 Samuel Chapter 13) who himself committed the sin of raping his brother Absalom's sister Tamar (not to be confused with Tamar of Genesis.) Who committed that sin Amnon or God? Clearly it was Amnon and then who killed Amnon and David's other brothers? Absalom did by deceit and thus began Absalom's Revolt. This grieved David much to heart and David even forbade the slaying of Absalom, whom Joab would then slay later (another point of interest is Joab offered to pay an unnamed man to slay Absalom, but the man refused due to David expressly commanding not to harm Absalom.) So it is that Amnon, Absalom, and Joab all sinned because one sin lead to a cascade of more sin. This is a good example of why sin is contrary to God and for good reason too.

As for your claim God denied Pharoah freewill, that's just madness! God gave Pharoah 12 chances to free Israel of his own freewill. I suppose you could excuse Pharoah for not obeying this command after the first few plagues as he thought Moses was merely doing witchcraft since Pharoah's court magicians were able to replicate the first few plagues until the plague of boils. Then even after all the plagues Pharoah even turns his back on his own word and tries to pursue the Israelites to which as you know his army is crushed because of his foolishness, deceit, and treachery.

Then you say God took away Job's freewill, and that is wholly untrue and defies the entire plot of The Book of Job. God let Satan do whatever he pleased with Job because Satan (again sinning and dooming himself some more) thought he could tempt God into destroying Job unjustly and to tempt Job into making Job curse God to God's face. Satan even tries to make the point that Job only worships God because his life is good (an argument that Job does not have freewill because he leads a fruitful life), thus God allows Satan to even bring hardship on Job. The whole point of the wager was to see if Job acting on his own freewill would blaspheme the LORD. Though Job curses even his own birth Job does not curse God proving that by his own freewill Job chooses God and the Path of Life.

Your talk of the whore and the horse issue stuff is a parable of Ezekial which I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you misinterpretted it (even though the interpretation is literally in same chapter Ezekial 23.) The whore is Jerusalem whom God accuses of being a whore for the idols and magic and evil of various kingdoms such as Chaldea. So yes, God use strong language, and He has every Right to, but this is not God's fault that Jerusalem forsook Him, this is the fault of Jerusalem (also added note there are two metaphorical whores in this parable, the other being Samaria the old capital of the northern kingdom, Israel. Whereas Jerusalem was the capital of the southern kingdom Judah.) Also to return to the topic of polygamy, this parable is a good parable for why God does not approve of polygamy, for just as God likens idolatry to whoredom and adultery, so polygamy is like idolatry in that you cannot worship many gods and keep the One God happy just as you cannot marry many spouses and keep the One Spouse happy.

Not too sure why you are so quick to defend Satan and sin and polygamy and all these other unclean things. Sin ain't good for you man, it hurts others and it hurts yourself. Perhaps you feel guilty, that's okay, we are all guilty at one point or another. What you should do is read the Bible in full before you try to misconstrue it, understand why Mankind is guilty. Even look at secular history and events of the World even today and you will see easily how Mankind doom himself constantly even as we type here. But also try to understand that the LORD can forgive and wipe away all sins and grant you the gift of Salvation and Life.

(And my apologies to our poor and goodly moderators for this ordeal. God bless you for your patience and understanding.)
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#44
Remember there was no law before the 10 commandments...... so when Moses married his wife he broke no law for it was not yet written.
The law was established at the same time that the world and man was established at creation. What Moses did was give examples of how that law could be carried out. That is not establishing law.
 
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#45
Oak: LAWS God's laws are less moral (fact) he allows rape, murder, incest, etc!
According to scripture you are misrepresenting God. GodsSalvation did a big job for you, helping you see it line by line. Bless him! and bless you for listening to him. But it takes more than picking out verses here and there, it takes an understanding of the basic principles of God. All scripture reports the same God, it is a unified whole. If one scripture is out of place, it is not the scripture, it is our understanding so it is up to us to study until we do understand.

The basic of God is in the first chapter of genesis. God, in the beginning, created a world that was only of spiritual darkness, it had nothing of God's "owr" or goodness in it. The first day God reported of refining this world, God added that. We don't have an English word for it, translators used the word light. But the sun was created on the fourth day, so light isn't correct translation. The rest of the bible reports God's plans for His creation and the principles God established for the correct operation of the world.

Your decision that God is for rape, murder, incest, and ect. does not fit at all with the Hebrew word "owr".

Scripture reports these things happened. Even David who God loved was guilty. But always, even when they went to God with repentance and God forgave, always there was a price in this world they had to pay.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#46
The law was established at the same time that the world and man was established at creation. What Moses did was give examples of how that law could be carried out. That is not establishing law.
Not true. Moses established a law for justification. E.g. there was no Sabbath before Moses. Before that, justification was by faith, and the faithful upheld a rudimentary law based on conscience and the laws of whatever pagan legal system they lived under.

Certainly it is true that those with faith had adopted a set of moral conventions, which perhaps might be viewed as eternal as based directly on the dictates of God, later developed into a full blown legal code with punishments, but there was no "police force" to enforce the law. It wasn't law as we know it - just a moral code, although it acted as effective law for those whose faith constrained them to adhere to it.
 
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#47
Not true. Moses established a law for justification. E.g. there was no Sabbath before Moses. Before that, justification was by faith, and the faithful upheld a rudimentary law based on conscience and the laws of whatever pagan legal system they lived under.

Certainly it is true that those with faith had adopted a set of moral conventions, which perhaps might be viewed as eternal as based directly on the dictates of God, later developed into a full blown legal code with punishments, but there was no "police force" to enforce the law. It wasn't law as we know it - just a moral code, although it acted as effective law for those whose faith constrained them to adhere to it.
I don't think you can find scripture that teaches this. "Moses established a law for justification" isn't something I have found. This law acted as a sort of constitution for the nation that Joshua opened up for the jews, It seems to me.

When God said that He worked six days, as he refined the earth for our habitation, and rested on the seventh, don't you think that was establishing a pattern? When God established His order on the first day of creation, don't you think that also set up the way God wanted us to operate with peace, goodness, and abundance on His earth? That is one way of explaining law.

I used my concordance to look up every verse referring to atonement. I also did this with an intensive study of all the scriptures relating to law. The entire picture as scripture gave it was so far from the picture you paint that all I can say is I think your entire concept is not a correct on of how our world is.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
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#48
Polygamy is a sin. The only reason that Abraham and the others did these things was because they bought into the culture of the time. If God wanted man to have many wives, He would have made Adam and Eve and Betty and Janet and Karen. He didn't, though, did He? And consider that God wanted one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve) to begin the population of the entire earth. If polygamy was approved by God, He would have done so from the very beginning.

Secondly, Utah just legalized polygamy for all, meaning a woman can now have multiple husbands. Hmmmm. And, why did they legalize it? Because gay marriage is now legal. Yup. That's right. So the basis if polygamy in Utah is essentially, "Well, if a man can marry a man, then we most assuredly can't say that a man can marry seven men at the same time, right? Right."

By this logic, the progressive logic, we are all heading places God never intended. The last days are upon us. This is evident with the fact that churches support these wrong practices within their walls. Yup.
You should not call thing a sin when it is not a sin. Polygamy was not banned until centuries after Jesus. The early Christians, who were closer to the fountain of knowledge than we are, practiced it

Augustine stepped in and banned polygamy, not based on scripture but because we have enough children now, so no more need for polygamy.

it was lawful among the ancient fathers: whether it be lawful now also, I would not hastily pronounce (utrum et nunc fas sit, non temere dixerim). For there is not now necessity of begetting children, as there then was, when, even when wives bear children, it was allowed, in order to a more numerous posterity, to marry other wives in addition, which now is certainly not lawful."


St. Augustin On the Good of Marriage, ch.17; cf. On Marriage and Concupiscence,I,9.8


So if he cannot call it a sin, should you ?


When the subject of polygamy comes up, there is an overriding view of sleazy men. Polygamy is an avenue of charity. A chance for you to welcome into your family an elderly widow or a single mother struggling to look after her children. The London riots major factor was children raised with no father figure. It is a solution from God that people have thrown away.
 
May 15, 2013
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#49
You are stating that God says it is OK to have concubines, I don't think there is one scripture in the bible that says this is so. There are many scriptures that tell how God wants marriage to be, and that when we become one with a partner, that is to be honored.

The book of Hosea is illustrating God's love for us, even though we are not true to Him. It is not saying that the principles God established when God established sex and marriage were changed.
The point that I'm trying to make is why David had sinned over one woman, when he could had have as many wives that his heart desired. As it say, no one can't serve more than two. You can only love one, and that is why God want us to choose, because we can't have our cake and eat it to.
 
May 15, 2013
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#50
Whenever there is a discussion on polygamy, it seems to result in badmouthing of the ones God chose above all else. Like David would have less morals than us !

Polygamy was not stopped by Jesus. Christians for centuries afterward practiced polygamy. The reason it was eventually stopped had nothing to do with scripture and more to do with life style. It is another example of Man overruling God.
They had did practiced it in the early stages, and they did other things as well. Eventually the body of Christ is maturing as time goes on. But some of the Christians isn't maturing through the word, and those are the ones that aren't producing any fruits, and which they are the wicked servants that didn't gained nothing, but wanted things to remain the same. But we are suppose to be maturing, not declining, or we will rot. The Old didn't produced nothing, but the New is producing fruits before the Coming. That is why Jesus has came, so that we can start producing righteousness. Pretty soon Christ will reign through out the land.
 

mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
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#51
You should not call thing a sin when it is not a sin. Polygamy was not banned until centuries after Jesus. The early Christians, who were closer to the fountain of knowledge than we are, practiced it

Augustine stepped in and banned polygamy, not based on scripture but because we have enough children now, so no more need for polygamy.

it was lawful among the ancient fathers: whether it be lawful now also, I would not hastily pronounce (utrum et nunc fas sit, non temere dixerim). For there is not now necessity of begetting children, as there then was, when, even when wives bear children, it was allowed, in order to a more numerous posterity, to marry other wives in addition, which now is certainly not lawful."


St. Augustin On the Good of Marriage, ch.17; cf. On Marriage and Concupiscence,I,9.8


So if he cannot call it a sin, should you ?


When the subject of polygamy comes up, there is an overriding view of sleazy men. Polygamy is an avenue of charity. A chance for you to welcome into your family an elderly widow or a single mother struggling to look after her children. The London riots major factor was children raised with no father figure. It is a solution from God that people have thrown away.
God never approved of polygamy. All we have to do is look at His original creation to see this. We allow culture to dictate our morality, rather than God. Sleeping with multiple people is sinful. Thus, polygamy is sinful. I wish the church would wake up and stop defending sexual immortality.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#52
God never approved of polygamy. All we have to do is look at His original creation to see this. We allow culture to dictate our morality, rather than God. Sleeping with multiple people is sinful. Thus, polygamy is sinful. I wish the church would wake up and stop defending sexual immortality.
Polygamy is not an issue for most European churches as very few professing Christians, excluding obvious cults, pretend to more than one wife simultaneously. Divorce by women is a far more serious issue, and we know that has always been unlawful, for whatever reason, unless the woman's life is threatened.

I guess the reason why most women are so against polygamy being other than a sin, is because it would negate their presumed right of divorce if their husband got a "2nd wife." I can understand that, but it is a separate issue from whether polygamy is sinful per se.
 
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mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
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#53
Polygamy is not an issue for most European churches as very few professing Christians, excluding obvious cults, pretend to more than one wife. Divorce by women is a far more serious issue, and we know that has always been unlawful, for whatever reason, unless the woman's life is threatened.
Interesting that you consider divorce more serious that multiple sex partners. I don't think God views it the same way you do. We must consider that in Genesis 2, God said that a MAN (singular) will leave his parents and join to his WIFE (singular) and the TWO will become ONE flesh. God is against polygamy. God is against sexual sin of ANY KIND and as long as Christians attempt to validate sexual sin, the morality in the church will continue to decline.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#54
Interesting that you consider divorce more serious that multiple sex partners. I don't think God views it the same way you do. We must consider that in Genesis 2, God said that a MAN (singular) will leave his parents and join to his WIFE (singular) and the TWO will become ONE flesh. God is against polygamy. God is against sexual sin of ANY KIND and as long as Christians attempt to validate sexual sin, the morality in the church will continue to decline.
There in nothing in Gen 2 that prohibits polygamy as there is nothing to stop a man being one in flesh with more than one woman, and vice versa. Even Paul concede that vis-a-vis prostitutes in 1Cr 6:16.

It is the breaking of the marriage bond that sin and adultery lie. These statistics show that nominally attending conservative Protestants are 20 percent more likely to divorce, compared to secular Americans.

Check out these statistics.

Even where a man does initiate the divorce (2/3 of all divorces are initiated by women) the wife is often culpable by refusing submission. In my experience American and European women find it very hard to submit to spouses unless they are active and serious participants in religion. This is because they are taught non-submission from infancy at school., and there is also the "princess factor" whereby fathers ridiculously idolize their daughters and treat them as God's gift to not only themselves but the entire human race.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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#55
There in nothing in Gen 2 that prohibits polygamy as there is nothing to stop a man being one in flesh with more than one woman, and vice versa. Even Paul concede that vis-a-vis prostitutes in 1Cr 6:16.

It is the breaking of the marriage bond that sin and adultery lie. These statistics show that nominally attending conservative Protestants are 20 percent more likely to divorce, compared to secular Americans.

Check out these statistics.

Even where a man does initiate the divorce (2/3 of all divorces are initiated by women) the wife is often culpable by refusing submission. In my experience American and European women find it very hard to submit to spouses unless they are active and serious participants in religion. This is because they are taught non-submission from infancy at school., and there is also the "princess factor" whereby fathers ridiculously idolize their daughters and treat them as God's gift to not only themselves but the entire human race.
That a person can become one with one person, then also become one with another takes quite a contortionist is this world you have created! Can women do this, too?

Does this submission you talk of include that each have the welfare of the other in mind, as they are part of each other, and the man is to love and care for the wife? There a lot of pieces to the instruction to submit, not including them is only a corruption of the instruction.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#56
That a person can become one with one person, then also become one with another takes quite a contortionist is this world you have created! Can women do this, too?
Of course women can do it, just by sex. No contortion necessary. The sin of women is being one in flesh with more than one man, unless they have a certificate of divorce from a man. The sin of man is in fornication and adultery, which is becoming one in flesh with someone whom they do not intend to marry, or whom they have no permission to marry, or becoming one in flesh with someone who is already married or betrothed to another &etc. The one in flesh relation is thus used to denote sin, not prohibit polygamy. You're stretching this one further than the concept allows.

E.g. both Jacob and Abraham were polygamists, and they figure rather prominently in the bible. Not really sure where you get your authority to call them "sinful?"

Does this submission you talk of include that each have the welfare of the other in mind, as they are part of each other, and the man is to love and care for the wife? There a lot of pieces to the instruction to submit, not including them is only a corruption of the instruction.
Whatever. I'm not going to derail this thread. I'm just pointing out a few stats for you to bear in mind, whilst you're calling polygamists sinful. Women are by no means "perfect" either, and a frequent source of immorality. Of course many/most polygamists are also deeply sinful, because polygamy in the modern age is usually practiced by men with absolutely no moral sense or religion, and the practice is associated far more with paganism and adultery and fornication than with religion, so I'm not defending the practice. But as with the patriarchs, polygamy wasn't always associated with sleaze merchants, and it cannot always be simply condemned outright, and there is almost nothing in the OT to render it unlawful per se, except it being often associated with greed and sleaze.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
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#57
God never approved of polygamy. All we have to do is look at His original creation to see this. We allow culture to dictate our morality, rather than God. Sleeping with multiple people is sinful. Thus, polygamy is sinful. I wish the church would wake up and stop defending sexual immortality.
I have shown how history has disagreed with you. If God did not approve of something, God would be clear God does not approve of it and would be clear when it is time to stop. Please provide explicit verses showing God not approving and explicit verses saying to stop.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#58
Lots of emotional knee jerk responses here but Polygamy is supported in the bible.

2 Samuel 12:7-8

"[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. [SUP]8 [/SUP]I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more."

That's just one example, I could show pleeeenty of them. It's also important to keep in mind that having multiple wives wasn't about "lust" just so men could sleep with more than one woman. They had to take care of them and support them too. This was true even of concubines.
 
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chubbena

Guest
#59
Was God ok with the men of the old testament having many wives?? e.g David.
Guess many went off topic for the OP was asking if God was ok with the men of the OLD TESTAMENT having many wives.
He gave this law:
Deut 25:5-10
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
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#60
Guess many went off topic for the OP was asking if God was ok with the men of the OLD TESTAMENT having many wives.
He gave this law:
Deut 25:5-10
God is ok now so must be back then. :)