How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice !

[svedbygrace]

Imputed Righteousness without Works !


Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Now exactly what is this imputed Righteousness without works ? First lets begin by saying that its not a man's faith, meaning its not Righteousness Imputed on account of a man's act of believing. Many false teachers would tell us, because they lack understanding, that ones Righteousness is their Faith Vs 5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Note: [Those in the flesh have no faith !]

Now that is not what Vs 5 means, in fact Righteousness is Imputed without Works, Without Believing, without any act, deed performed by the sinner, but believing Faith is an act performed by us, when we do it. So what does this truly mean, that is to have Righteousness imputed without works ? Remember Works is defined by the greek word ergon:

I.
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
A.
that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking


II.
any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

III.
an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

So its Righteousness Imputed without any of this above that's been defined !

So what does it mean ? It means by an act of Sovereign Grace, all those Chosen in Christ before the foundation and those the same whom He died for, are given to their account a free gift of Righteousness. This Righteousness is Jesus Christ's own active obedience as a Man to all of God's Law in every detail, in Mind, Soul Strength, and Heart, yes even His disposition of Mind, external and internal, even to say without guile, charged or imputed to the account of every chosen sinner, and so it is by the Obedience of One the many shall be made Righteous Rom 5:19. The word Righteous dikaios:

I.righteous, observing divine laws
A.
in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of GodI.

of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

ii.
innocent, faultless, guiltless

That's what it means !828

 

[svedbygrace]

Imputed Righteousness without Works ! 2

It should be remembered that Paul renounced his own Righteousness in Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Which in his mind was his active obedience to precepts, for renounced that for that which had been revealed to him in the Gospel, which was Christ's active obedience to God's Law as his Righteousness Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Lord Jesus Christ as God/ Man wrought out an Righteousness to God's Law for all those He represented, and that Righteousness has been accounted to them for His Sake.

That Gift of Righteousness is made known to them through the Gospel !

The Perfect, Holy, Unmatched Obedience yielded to Gods Law belongs to all for whom He Lived and died by an act and Gift of Grace.829

 

[svedbygrace]

The Righteousness required by God's Law !

The Righteousness required by God's Law for man was not merely outward conformity as with the very religious jews Matt 23:25-26

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

But men must have also truth in the inward parts Ps 51:6

6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Jn 4:23-24

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The Law of God reaches our imaginations and thoughts, our desires, affections, our tendencies and doeth expect nothing short of absolute purity continually. Remember The condemnation and destruction of men and women like you and I in the first world and what God's indictment was of them before the flood ? Lets read Gen 6:5

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

You see what God saw ? Not just outward wickeness in display, but imaginations and thoughts. How are our imaginations and thoughts today ? Are they continually evil or continually pure and Holy ?

Where are our imaginations and thoughts which God saw ? The Heart. That's word heart leb :

I.inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding
A.
inner part, midst
i.
midst (of things)

ii.
heart (of man)

iii.
soul, heart (of man)

iv.
mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory

v.
inclination, resolution, determination (of will)

vi.
conscience

vii.
heart (of moral character)

viii.
as seat of appetites

ix.
as seat of emotions and passions

x.
as seat of courage

Notice the word Mind up in #4 for many like to separate the Mind from the heart which is foolish.

So God see's and holds man accountable for his thoughts Isa 55:7

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: meaning his meditations, purposes, plots, intentions !

God's Holiness demands Purity of all these to meet His Perfect standard of Righteousness. Jesus told the hypocrits Matt 5:27-28

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

This points out that God observes the Heart, the thoughts, and in the mind we do works of Iniquity.

Now, no man has ever lived up to God's Righteous standard, not even man in his pristine glory in adam. The only Man to do so, was the Lord Jesus Christ, and that Righteousness of His in Heart, thoughts, appetites and passions, that Perfect Righteousness of Heart and Life that God demands of men, that He accomplished and that He gives as a Free Gift of Imputation to all for whom He Lived and died. Its a Gift by Imputation, a Gift of Righteousness Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 5:17

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

Its a Gift by Imputation ! Because God reckons it so !830

 

[BradC]

Freewill salvation is the only salvation offered by the cross of Christ. It is a 'whosoever believes' salvation in the sacrifice of Christ. Believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. To believe in the Lord Jesus is an act of free with no exception. What got Lucifer kicked out of the kingdom of heaven was his free volition against the words of the throne and what gets us into the kingdom of God is when agree and believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ with our free volition associated with our heart. To seek the kingdom and His righteousness is an act of free volition, To love and forgive one another is an act of free volition. To have mercy and minister grace to the guilty is an act of free volition. To lay our life down for one another is an act of free volition. In all these things we may not choose to do so and if not then it is also an act of our free volition. Thank God that we have been given a free volition to choose to respond to the conviction of the Spirit so that might have life through Christ. Sin nor the death of the cross took away our ability to act freely and freely we have received and freely we give and we freely enjoy the things that are given to us of God, even the deep things of God.

 

[svedbygrace]

Freewillers deny the slavery of the will to sin !

Those who promote the false doctrine of freewill, are in essence saying the heart is not by nature enslaved and corrupted by sin.

For instance, the word heart here Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Its the word kardia and means:

I.the heart
A.
that organ in the animal body which is the centre of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life

B.
denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life
i.
the vigour and sense of physical life

ii.
the centre and seat of spiritual life
a.
the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

b.
of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

c.
of the will and character

d.
of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions



C.
of the middle or central or inmost part of anything, even though inanimate

I enlarged both Understanding and Will because both are crucial elements in Believing the Gospel with the Heart /Mind.

Now the freewillers is saying in essence that they willed to believe, obey with the from the Heart, with a Freewill that was not out of a New Heart given by New Birth as promised here Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Now back to our text, Paul is being thankful to God that some believed/ obeyed that form of Doctrine [Gospel] from the Heart, and said that ye were the servents of sin.

Now what does that word servants mean. Its the greek word

doulos:

slave, bondman, man of servile condition
A.
a slave

B.
metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men

They are denying that their will/heart was a slave to satan and to sin. Remember Jesus said to the religious jews Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

The freewillers are in denial as to this being a servant to sin as the jews were, Listen : Jn8:33

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

The freewillers are saying they were never servants to sin because their will[by nature] is free to obey God's Will, and not to obey the Will of satan and or sin !831

 

[cfultz3]

Re: Freewillers deny the slavery of the will to sin !

Those who promote the false doctrine of freewill, are in essence saying the heart is not by nature enslaved and corrupted by sin.

For instance, the word heart here Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Its the word kardia and means:

I.the heart
A.
that organ in the animal body which is the centre of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life

B.
denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life
i.
the vigour and sense of physical life

ii.
the centre and seat of spiritual life
a.
the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

b.
of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

c.
of the will and character

d.
of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions



C.
of the middle or central or inmost part of anything, even though inanimate

I enlarged both Understanding and Will because both are crucial elements in Believing the Gospel with the Heart /Mind.

Now the freewillers is saying in essence that they willed to believe, obey with the from the Heart, with a Freewill that was not out of a New Heart given by New Birth as promised here Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Now back to our text, Paul is being thankful to God that some believed/ obeyed that form of Doctrine [Gospel] from the Heart, and said that ye were the servents of sin.

Now what does that word servants mean. Its the greek word

doulos:

slave, bondman, man of servile condition
A.
a slave

B.
metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men

They are denying that their will/heart was a slave to satan and to sin. Remember Jesus said to the religious jews Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

The freewillers are in denial as to this being a servant to sin as the jews were, Listen : Jn8:33

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

The freewillers are saying they were never servants to sin because their will[by nature] is free to obey God's Will, and not to obey the Will of satan and or sin !831

Don't forget about all those "whosoever will", less alone that little pesky mentioning of "choose you this day whom you shall follow....as for me and my family, we will follow....." And don't forget about, "Come and follow me", giving us an indication of choosing Him as our shepherd....

 

[breno785au]

I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, (Deu 30:19)

So we get a choice?

 

[IloveyouGod]

When Adam and Eve sinned all humanity was suppose to die and go to hell for their sin. Yet, Jesus Christ came and saved us all sinners from this condemnation.

Jesus Christ's Crucifixion reconciled us with God. BUT it takes ONE for reconciliation because reconciliation is about restoring a broken thing. Now comes the second part which is forgiveness. Forgiveness takes TWO. You must forgive to be forgiven. So when you forgive you will be forgiven your sin.

Those false teachers that tell us that Jesus Christ die for all the sinners amongst mankind, and yet they say multitudes for whom He did die, go to hell in unbelief and in their sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins[plural].

They do pervert God's Justice and here's how; For its liken unto this: Say a man was found guilty of a multitude of crimes against the State, in this he is justly sentenced to serve 25yrs as his punishment for those crimes. Upon release 25 yrs later, the following few days, he is again arrested and tried and found guilty of those same crimes, and sentenced to 25 yrs again as his just due punishment. That would be unjust would it not ? Was not Justice already served for those Crimes ? Of course it has, this is just a miscarriage of Justice, by convicting a criminal twice for the same crimes, and punishing him for the same, after justice has already been satisfied for those crimes.

Yet this is the conclusion we must come to, once we teach that those for whom Christ died, died for all their sins, satisfying all of God's Law and Justice for their crimes against His Holy Law, and now yet again they are made liable for those same crimes or sins, and this makes God a perverter of Justice.

 

[svedbygrace]

cfu

Don't forget about all those "whosoever will", less alone that little pesky mentioning of "choose you this day whom you shall follow....as for me and my family, we will follow....." And don't forget about, "Come and follow me", giving us an indication of choosing Him as our shepherd....

You evaded my points made, way to go !

 

[svedbygrace]

iloveyoug

Jesus Christ's Crucifixion reconciled us with God.

Not everyone, because those Christ reconciled to God by His death, the promise is that they shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now are you a universalist ad believe all mankind without exception shall be saved by His Life ? If you are not, then there is serious problems with your understanding of scripture and who Christ reconciled to God by His Death !

And if you end up teaching that some whom Christ died for wind up in hell, you are guilty of perverting God's Justice as stated !

 

[Bookends]

WRONG... God did not say ALL are called and few are chosen.... God said MANY are called few are chosen. Crossy some people is not given to Christ. And if you think God is unfair not to call ALL! Then you do not know God. Millions of people came into the world and died without EVER hearing the Name Jesus..... What happened to them? Were they EVER called? NOPE... so Again Crossnote you are not in Truth.

Crossy they will be judged by God and plenty of them witll enter into the Kingdom on judgment day. And MANY that calls Jesus Lord will be sent to hell.... If you do not know this, I can give you the Scripture to prove this. But then, you should know this.

Crossy when Jesus prayed, did He pray for the World, or those God gave Him and the ones that will be lieve in this.... Be PERFECT! ?????

John 1

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

notice it doesn't say "that some through him might believe."

 

[CRC]

Jesus was not exaggerating when he said: “No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends.” (John 15:13) His willingness to surrender his soul in our behalf was the greatest expression of his love for us. Yet, someone else has shown us even greater love. Jesus explained: “God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16) God loves us so much that he gave his Son as a ransom, making it possible for us to be delivered from sin and death. (Ephesians 1:7) The ransom is a precious gift from God, but he does not force us to accept it.
It is up to us to accept God’s gift. How? By “exercising faith” in his Son. Faith, however, is not just words. It is proved by actions, by the way we live. (James 2:26) We prove our faith in Jesus Christ by following him day after day.

 

[cfultz3]

cfu



You evaded my points made, way to go !

Is this not your point: Re: How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice !

 

[cfultz3]

Re: Freewillers deny the slavery of the will to sin !

To be fair, I will answer your points

Those who promote the false doctrine of freewill, are in essence saying the heart is not by nature enslaved and corrupted by sin.

It is not that we are saying we are not naturally inclined to do our own will and by which our heart is corrupted from the righteous path, it is just that we understand that we are given a choice to either do right or wrong, much in the same way Adam and Eve were given a choice to hearken unto the Lord or the serpent (this being the fundamental definition of freewill: choice. And that between what the Lord or our heart has commanded of us).

For instance, the word heart here Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Its the word kardia and means:

I.the heart
....

mind, as it is the fountain and seat of.... purposes, endeavours

of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

of the will and character
.....

I enlarged both Understanding and Will because both are crucial elements in Believing the Gospel with the Heart /Mind.

"I think. Therefore, I am", says the soul. It is the soul, the part of us which thinks and which constitutes us as a being. It is the soul which is to live to its flesh or spirit and is the "I" of "I am to die to my flesh, so that I may live to my spirit". And as you highlighted, it is our character, our will, who we are as a being.

As pertaining to the verse, they obeyed from the soul which was spiritually lead, as opposed to having obeyed from the flesh.

Now the freewillers is saying in essence that they willed to believe, obey with the from the Heart, with a Freewill that was not out of a New Heart given by New Birth as promised here Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

As in the example of the fallen Hebrews in the wilderness, isn't a stony heart one which is hardened by stubbornness? It is understood that God did not make their heart stubborn, but they themselves willfully chose to not hearken to Him. If this is the case, is He not saying that He will put in us a new heart which is not hardened by our willful stubbornness, but one which seeks to hearken to Him?

If the fallen Hebrews were able to willfully disobey the Lord by their own accord (to say otherwise is to say that the Lord caused them to be disobedient), then it can only be reasonable to say that we either willfully choice to hearken to the Lord or not. And if we willfully hearken to Him, will we not be as those who made it to the Promised Land? Even the Lord Jesus Christ willfully obeyed those commands from God, even unto death. Was it not He who said, "Not my WILL, but your WILL"?

Now back to our text, Paul is being thankful to God that some believed/ obeyed that form of Doctrine [Gospel] from the Heart, and said that ye were the servents of sin.

Now what does that word servants mean. Its the greek word

doulos:
slave,...

metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will

Ponder on what you have highlighted: one who GIVES HIMSELF UP to someone else's will. If someone gives himself up to another, is that not willfully? Even as Jesus said, "Not my will, but your will", and we understand that He willfully gave of Himself to the will of the Father.

They are denying that their will/heart was a slave to satan and to sin.

Remember Jesus said to the religious jews Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Freewillers do not deny that we are a slave to whom we hearken to, that is Scriptural. Again, as the Hebrews in the wilderness, we either choose to hearken to the Voice of the Lord or we don't, just as some of them did not.

The freewillers are in denial as to this being a servant to sin as the jews were, Listen : Jn8:33

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

They were speaking physically, while Jesus was speaking spiritually. John 8:33, 8:39, 8:41, 8:48, 8:52-53, 8:57. However, those of freewill do spiritually understand that we are slaves to whom we hearken to. Be it to: the Lord, Satan, self, money, lust, greed, etc....

The freewillers are saying they were never servants to sin because their will[by nature] is free to obey God's Will, and not to obey the Will of satan and or sin !831

Our will is as free to obey God's will, inasmuch as Jesus willfully obeyed that will or as free to not obey God's will, inasmuch as Adam and Even willfully disobeyed that will.

 

[svedbygrace]

cfu

It is not that we are saying we are not naturally inclined to do our own will and by which our heart is corrupted from the righteous path, it is just that we understand that we are given a choice to either do right or wrong,

Again, then you deny that the heart by nature is enslaved to sin !

 

[JaumeJ]

Should your thinking have to do with being foreknown by our Father. He knew each one of us before we were born into the age since it is He Who created us, however there is also the reality that when anyone from this age comes to the Wonderful and Almighty, and he accepts and believes Yeshua, that person is foreknown from this age.

Now, there may be many who are predestined to the fire of hell, but this is not for me to announce to the four winds. I believe this only because there is a finite number of souls who will be saved because there is a finite number created in the flesh. Because this is so, it says to me that in the very end times, as the created and saved become fewer and fewer there will be a higher ratio of those wicked ones who have already chosen evil and separation for our beloved Father and Salvation.

 

[jag1977]

The heart by nature is a clean slate. Will its leader. God will be its leader. Satan will be its leader. My will be its leader. Uncertainty has no will but a man in a raging sea willing to survive. Either way, the heart is in us all. We follow our heart willing under that leader when we are in bondage. If we be be created in the image of God we will be our own. If we are created in the image of Satan we will be our own. If we be created in our own image we will be our own. If we be created in the image of uncertainty we will be the image of the moment. To me I rather be my own but it is not all men that should find peace in that, such as, salvation be the will of moment and they forever seek the will of salvation.

 

[svedbygrace]

jag

The heart by nature is a clean slate

Do you have a scripture that states that ?

 

[jag1977]

Yes....the creation.

 

[phil36]

Yes....the creation.

Then the Fall