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Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
you might think you have lost it but Jesus can keep it on the right track for you. sometimes regardless of how you fail. the whole world is truly in his hands and it is an amazing grace.
duewell
mark 4 v 11-13
you might think you have lost it but Jesus can keep it on the right track for you. sometimes regardless of how you fail. the whole world is truly in his hands and it is an amazing grace.
duewell
mark 4 v 11-13
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
Being "saved" means that you are being saved from the wrath of God on the great and terrible day of the Lord. In other words, you are being saved from God because his anger is going to be poured out.
So, on that day, the great and terrible day of the Lord, you will find out if you are saved or not. The answer is that Once Saved Always Saved and that you can lose your salvation are both wrong.
Luke 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
Being "saved" means that you are being saved from the wrath of God on the great and terrible day of the Lord. In other words, you are being saved from God because his anger is going to be poured out.
So, on that day, the great and terrible day of the Lord, you will find out if you are saved or not. The answer is that Once Saved Always Saved and that you can lose your salvation are both wrong.
Luke 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth , it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
My bible teaches me (whatsoever) and that means what ever it is that God does, such as salvation, IS FOREVER.
1. You cannot add to it as it is complete and perfect because God did it.
2. You cannot take anything away from how/why/what God does. (refer to 1 above) and God is all powerful
God saved me, and it is forever based upon the perfect faith of Jesus Christ and His forever, eternal righteous stand before the Heavenly Father as my one and only mediator!
Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth , it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
My bible teaches me (whatsoever) and that means what ever it is that God does, such as salvation, IS FOREVER.
1. You cannot add to it as it is complete and perfect because God did it.
2. You cannot take anything away from how/why/what God does. (refer to 1 above) and God is all powerful
God saved me, and it is forever based upon the perfect faith of Jesus Christ and His forever, eternal righteous stand before the Heavenly Father as my one and only mediator!
L
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
We already have a thread like this here: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/82515-once-saved-forever-saved-fact-fiction.html
It isn't necessary to have multiple threads on the same topic.
We already have a thread like this here: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/82515-once-saved-forever-saved-fact-fiction.html
It isn't necessary to have multiple threads on the same topic.
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
To have salvation means that you have repented and you have accepted Jesus Christ as your saviour. Also, if Jesus Christ has truly given you salvation then your name is written in heaven. But you must not backslide, you must not go back to sin otherwise your salvation will be lost. So the answer is, salvation can be lost if you go back to sin.
To have salvation means that you have repented and you have accepted Jesus Christ as your saviour. Also, if Jesus Christ has truly given you salvation then your name is written in heaven. But you must not backslide, you must not go back to sin otherwise your salvation will be lost. So the answer is, salvation can be lost if you go back to sin.
P
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
Permanent salvation is simply wrong. The bible is very clear about that. The offer God made us is dependent on our accepting it. Look at it as a contract, if you will. A contract stipulates conditions on both parties of contributing so that the desired result will occur. In this case, heaven for us. God made us an offer - clean up your act (repent) stop sinning, and love me and your neighbor with all your heart.
Once a contract has been broken, and it IS by us, never God, it becomes null and void. When we sin, we broke our promise to God. We tore up the contract, and it no longer exists. When we breach it, God is no longer bound by it.
That is what "free moral agent" entails. To believe otherwise would mean that God has already decided our destination. He knows where we are going, true, but He leaves it up to us whether or not we want to go. It is OUR decision. Why would we be required to proselityze? Why read the bible? Why does ANYONE have to behave if there is no change in our eternal destination? That is completely unbelievable.
Why did Christ say what He did in Revalation 2:4&5?
[SUP] [/SUP]
Permanent salvation is simply wrong. The bible is very clear about that. The offer God made us is dependent on our accepting it. Look at it as a contract, if you will. A contract stipulates conditions on both parties of contributing so that the desired result will occur. In this case, heaven for us. God made us an offer - clean up your act (repent) stop sinning, and love me and your neighbor with all your heart.
Once a contract has been broken, and it IS by us, never God, it becomes null and void. When we sin, we broke our promise to God. We tore up the contract, and it no longer exists. When we breach it, God is no longer bound by it.
That is what "free moral agent" entails. To believe otherwise would mean that God has already decided our destination. He knows where we are going, true, but He leaves it up to us whether or not we want to go. It is OUR decision. Why would we be required to proselityze? Why read the bible? Why does ANYONE have to behave if there is no change in our eternal destination? That is completely unbelievable.
Why did Christ say what He did in Revalation 2:4&5?
[SUP] [/SUP]
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
it's not much of a "salvation" if i should live in fear of losing it all my short days.
what do you think Paul meant when he said to the Corinthians, about a believer living in sin:
hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
(1 Corinthians 5:5)
or to Timothy, founding a new church?
Timothy, my son, I am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
(1 Timothy 1:18-20)
if these men were destined for eternal death, why should it matter that they learn a lesson on earth? is "shipwrecked faith" no faith at all?
how could a man be "handed over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh" and yet still have salvation when the world is judged, if being in Satan's power meant all hope of salvation was lost?
what can separate us from the Love of God, if not even being "handed over to Satan" can?
nothing!!
it's not much of a "salvation" if i should live in fear of losing it all my short days.
what do you think Paul meant when he said to the Corinthians, about a believer living in sin:
hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
(1 Corinthians 5:5)
or to Timothy, founding a new church?
Timothy, my son, I am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
(1 Timothy 1:18-20)
if these men were destined for eternal death, why should it matter that they learn a lesson on earth? is "shipwrecked faith" no faith at all?
how could a man be "handed over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh" and yet still have salvation when the world is judged, if being in Satan's power meant all hope of salvation was lost?
what can separate us from the Love of God, if not even being "handed over to Satan" can?
nothing!!
T
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
I would say you can lose it. 1 john 2: 4 clearly says if you do not do God's commandments, you are a liar and do not know him. This shows that you must act in accordance to "know God". If someone for a time acts with God, and gets baptized, and then stops living a Godly life, then they are not saved.
Also there is a theme in the NT of enduring till the end. IF I'm saved forever no matter what, then there isn't a point of enduring. Also that whole teaching teaches us that we can be saved, then go to whatever we want which doesn't make sense.
You 100% can lose your salvation. Say a man be saved at one pooint in his life, 10 years later he walks into an airport and shoots it up, and then never repents. He is not saved because he didn't repent for that sin. You can lose it, but I don't think you can permanently lose it. So you'll always have the ability to be forgiven, and come back to the Lord.
I would say you can lose it. 1 john 2: 4 clearly says if you do not do God's commandments, you are a liar and do not know him. This shows that you must act in accordance to "know God". If someone for a time acts with God, and gets baptized, and then stops living a Godly life, then they are not saved.
Also there is a theme in the NT of enduring till the end. IF I'm saved forever no matter what, then there isn't a point of enduring. Also that whole teaching teaches us that we can be saved, then go to whatever we want which doesn't make sense.
You 100% can lose your salvation. Say a man be saved at one pooint in his life, 10 years later he walks into an airport and shoots it up, and then never repents. He is not saved because he didn't repent for that sin. You can lose it, but I don't think you can permanently lose it. So you'll always have the ability to be forgiven, and come back to the Lord.
C
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
Salvation can be lost. What Jesus done on th cross is forever and can't be changed, that's how were all able to receive salvation. Once saved, always saved falls in th line of predestination. Which is not correct. God gave us free will to accept Jesus or not, and when we're saved that doesn't change either. There are many scripture that show that Christians can backslide (I'll give a few), which is turning back to sin, in result losing their salvation. People can't live like devils and still be saved, because repentance changes a person by th power of the Spirit. If a person has went from Spirit to flesh the aren't saved anymore and must repent.
"If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall." 1 Cor 10:12
"Why then has this people turned away in perpetual backsliding? They hold fast to deceit; they refuse to return." Jer 8:5
"Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it..." Heb 2:1
"My people are bent on turning away from me, and though they call out to the Most High, he shall not raise them up at all." Hos 11:7
"For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.." 2 Pet 2:21
"Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. " Rev 2:5
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" Heb 10:26-39
Hope that helps
Salvation can be lost. What Jesus done on th cross is forever and can't be changed, that's how were all able to receive salvation. Once saved, always saved falls in th line of predestination. Which is not correct. God gave us free will to accept Jesus or not, and when we're saved that doesn't change either. There are many scripture that show that Christians can backslide (I'll give a few), which is turning back to sin, in result losing their salvation. People can't live like devils and still be saved, because repentance changes a person by th power of the Spirit. If a person has went from Spirit to flesh the aren't saved anymore and must repent.
"If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall." 1 Cor 10:12
"Why then has this people turned away in perpetual backsliding? They hold fast to deceit; they refuse to return." Jer 8:5
"Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it..." Heb 2:1
"My people are bent on turning away from me, and though they call out to the Most High, he shall not raise them up at all." Hos 11:7
"For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.." 2 Pet 2:21
"Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. " Rev 2:5
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" Heb 10:26-39
Hope that helps
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
Today in the Church Age, when one gets saved, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Eph.4:30), are baptized into the body of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 12:12-13). Therefore a born again Christian cannot lose their salvation. If you are in Jesus Christ, then you are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh (Eph. 5:30).
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 KJV
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. [13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 5:29-32 KJV
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. [31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. [32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Today in the Church Age, when one gets saved, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Eph.4:30), are baptized into the body of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 12:12-13). Therefore a born again Christian cannot lose their salvation. If you are in Jesus Christ, then you are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh (Eph. 5:30).
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 KJV
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. [13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 5:29-32 KJV
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. [31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. [32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
L
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
Jesus says
Matthew 12:31-32
31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Jesus says
Matthew 12:31-32
31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
Wow!! I would like to give up trying to forgive that relative who hurt me so bad, now I can go ahead and judge her. I asked God to save me long ago. Think! of all the mischief I could have done all these years if you had told me all this sooner.
Wow!! I would like to give up trying to forgive that relative who hurt me so bad, now I can go ahead and judge her. I asked God to save me long ago. Think! of all the mischief I could have done all these years if you had told me all this sooner.
T
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
In that case why go to church? why not sin? I mean we are saved right? PARTY!?.....There is so much proof you can lose your salvation in the bible. If you do not follow God, and WILLFULLY sin, you have no forgiveness.
In that case why go to church? why not sin? I mean we are saved right? PARTY!?.....There is so much proof you can lose your salvation in the bible. If you do not follow God, and WILLFULLY sin, you have no forgiveness.
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
The problem with your analogy is the misguided misconception that people who teach you can loose your salvation believe is that all people who believe once saved always saved think that they can live anyway they want and sin, sin and more sin and this is far from the truth. We believe that we can now do those things which are required by Christ and seek to do those things that please Christ. We do not believe that it gives us license to sin so quit implying it.
Not to mention that your analogy is pointless, fruitless and contrary to truth!
The problem with your analogy is the misguided misconception that people who teach you can loose your salvation believe is that all people who believe once saved always saved think that they can live anyway they want and sin, sin and more sin and this is far from the truth. We believe that we can now do those things which are required by Christ and seek to do those things that please Christ. We do not believe that it gives us license to sin so quit implying it.
Not to mention that your analogy is pointless, fruitless and contrary to truth!
T
Re: Which is true "Once Saved Always Saved" or That you can loose your salvation?
That is what the idea of not losing salvation states!!! It says that basically once you are saved, you can do ANYTHING and not lose your salvation which is so against scripture!!! We have to follow God consistently to be saved, and not willingly sin. If we live in a sinful life after being saved, (and I mean without trying to not be sinful) then we will not be saved! Once saved always saved is the most wrong doctrine ever. If you (I'm assuming you would say you are saved) stand up and shoot everyone in a room of people, and get killed in the process, scripture supports you not being saved for you have not repented for that sin!
That is what the idea of not losing salvation states!!! It says that basically once you are saved, you can do ANYTHING and not lose your salvation which is so against scripture!!! We have to follow God consistently to be saved, and not willingly sin. If we live in a sinful life after being saved, (and I mean without trying to not be sinful) then we will not be saved! Once saved always saved is the most wrong doctrine ever. If you (I'm assuming you would say you are saved) stand up and shoot everyone in a room of people, and get killed in the process, scripture supports you not being saved for you have not repented for that sin!