The Rapture?

[MyBagsRPacked]

Revelation 20

The Thousand Years

1I saw an angel come down from heaven, carrying the key to the deep pit and a big chain. 2He chained the dragon for a thousand years. It is that old snake, who is also known as the devil and Satan. 3Then the angel threw the dragon into the pit. He locked and sealed it, so that a thousand years would go by before the dragon could fool the nations again. But after that, it would have to be set free for a little while.

4I saw thrones, and sitting on those thrones were the ones who had been given the right to judge. I also saw the souls of the people who had their heads cut off because they had told about Jesus and preached God's message. They were the same ones who had not worshiped the beast or the idol, and they had refused to let its mark be put on their hands or foreheads. They will come to life and rule with Christ for a thousand years. 5-6These people are the first to be raised to life, and they are especially blessed and holy. The second death [a] has no power over them. They will be priests for God and Christ and will rule with them for a thousand years. No other dead people were raised to life until a thousand years later.

Which naturally brings me to this:

Matthew 24:23-51 (Contemporary English Version)


23Someone may say, "Here is the Messiah!" or "There he is!" But don't believe it. 24False messiahs and false prophets will come and work great miracles and signs. They will even try to fool God's chosen ones. 25But I have warned you ahead of time. 26If you are told that the Messiah is out in the desert, don't go there! And if you are told that he is in some secret place, don't believe it! 27The coming of the Son of Man will be like lightning that can be seen from east to west. 28Where there is a corpse, there will always be buzzards. [a] When the Son of Man Appears

(Mark 13.24-27; Luke 21.25-28)

29Right after those days of suffering,
"The sun will become dark,
and the moon
will no longer shine.
The stars will fall,
and the powers in the sky [b] will be shaken."
30Then a sign will appear in the sky. And there will be the Son of Man. [c] All nations on earth will weep when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31At the sound of a loud trumpet, he will send his angels to bring his chosen ones together from all over the earth. No One Knows the Day or Time

(Mark 13.32-37; Luke 17.26-30,34-36)

36No one knows the day or hour. The angels in heaven don't know, and the Son himself doesn't know. [e] Only the Father knows. 37When the Son of Man appears, things will be just as they were when Noah lived. 38People were eating, drinking, and getting married right up to the day that the flood came and Noah went into the big boat. 39They didn't know anything was happening until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be when the Son of Man appears. 40Two men will be in the same field, but only one will be taken. The other will be left. 41Two women will be together grinding grain, but only one will be taken. The other will be left. 42So be on your guard! You don't know when your Lord will come. 43Homeowners never know when a thief is coming, and they are always on guard to keep one from breaking in. 44Always be ready! You don't know when the Son of Man will come.

In conclusion, the rapture " implies" -and I say that toung in cheek- that people will just vanish while others are left without knowing a thing. I'm not looking for a negatively heated debate here. I myself question the very idea. After reading the above quoted passages, directly cut and pasted from the bible, I encourage your thoughtful responses May God be a blessing to you all!

 

[watchmen]

Check out the other rapture thread we have in here. ''Rapture= false teaching'' I believe you will find it very interesting.

 

[Graybeard]

You either believe the WHOLE Word of God, or you accuse God to be a liar, one cannot just believe parts that "make sense" and disregard the rest as "tongue in cheek"

 

[watchmen]

You either believe the WHOLE Word of God, or you accuse God to be a liar, one cannot just believe parts that "make sense" and disregard the rest as "tongue in cheek"

I agree Greybeard, there is no pretrib rapture. However to get a pretrib rapture out of the Bible you dont have to simply ignore certain scripture, you also have to add to some and twist others.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

You either believe the WHOLE Word of God, or you accuse God to be a liar, one cannot just believe parts that "make sense" and disregard the rest as "tongue in cheek"

the tongue in cheek part was because of my own definition of the rapture because OBVIOUSLY there's always people out there to pick us apart *winkwink*.
I'm not sure where you think I called God a liar, though *scratcheshead*.
I barely said a word there lol All I did was quote directly from the bible
You, dear Sir, should have yourself a blessed day.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

I never twisted anything in that post. I directly copied and pasted from http://www.biblegateway.com/

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

My whole point here is that in revelation, it says that some people will be taken to heaven with him for 1000 years and then he will return again, "
4I saw thrones, and sitting on those thrones were the ones who had been given the right to judge. I also saw the souls of the people who had their heads cut off because they had told about Jesus and preached God's message. They were the same ones who had not worshiped the beast or the idol, and they had refused to let its mark be put on their hands or foreheads. They will come to life and rule with Christ for a thousand years. 5-6These people are the first to be raised to life, and they are especially blessed and holy. The second death [a] has no power over them. They will be priests for God and Christ and will rule with them for a thousand years. No other dead people were raised to life until a thousand years later."

In my mind, this might support the Rapture Theory
But... all the following verses say virtually the same thing, and that is that Jesus will return with great power and glory for the whole world to see, at the same time.


Luke 21:25-28 (Contemporary English Version)
25Strange things will happen to the sun, moon, and stars. The nations on earth will be afraid of the roaring sea and tides, and they won't know what to do. 26People will be so frightened that they will faint because of what is happening to the world. Every power in the sky will be shaken. [a] 27Then the Son of Man will be seen, coming in a cloud with great power and glory. 28When all of this starts happening, stand up straight and be brave. You will soon be set free.

Matthew 24:29-31 (Contemporary English Version)
29Right after those days of suffering,

"The sun will become dark,
and the moon
will no longer shine.
The stars will fall,
and the powers in the sky [a] will be shaken." 30Then a sign will appear in the sky. And there will be the Son of Man. [b All nations on earth will weep when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31At the sound of a loud trumpet, he will send his angels to bring his chosen ones together from all over the earth.

Mark 13:24-27 (Contemporary English Version)
24In those days, right after that time of suffering,

"The sun will become dark,
and the moon
will no longer shine.
25The stars will fall,
and the powers in the sky [a]
will be shaken." 26Then the Son of Man will be seen coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27He will send his angels to gather his chosen ones from all over the earth.

Does it sound like some people won't know what's happening the moment it's happening (rapture)?
I really don't think anyone's gonna miss a thing here lol
I know that there are those that laugh it off sayng it's harmless to believe in the rapture but if you get one point wrong, what other points could one be getting wrong?
I'm just saying that you have to really, really, REALLY be careful what or who we allow to control our minds in the End Times that we are living in.
I only wish to lift people up May you have peace in your hearts today and everyday.

 

[watchmen]

I never twisted anything in that post. I directly copied and pasted from http://www.biblegateway.com/

No i didn't say you did.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Revelation 20

The Thousand Years

1I saw an angel come down from heaven, carrying the key to the deep pit and a big chain. 2He chained the dragon for a thousand years. It is that old snake, who is also known as the devil and Satan. 3Then the angel threw the dragon into the pit. He locked and sealed it, so that a thousand years would go by before the dragon could fool the nations again. But after that, it would have to be set free for a little while.

4I saw thrones, and sitting on those thrones were the ones who had been given the right to judge. I also saw the souls of the people who had their heads cut off because they had told about Jesus and preached God's message. They were the same ones who had not worshiped the beast or the idol, and they had refused to let its mark be put on their hands or foreheads. They will come to life and rule with Christ for a thousand years. 5-6These people are the first to be raised to life, and they are especially blessed and holy. The second death [a] has no power over them. They will be priests for God and Christ and will rule with them for a thousand years. No other dead people were raised to life until a thousand years later.

Which naturally brings me to this:

Matthew 24:23-51 (Contemporary English Version)


23Someone may say, "Here is the Messiah!" or "There he is!" But don't believe it. 24False messiahs and false prophets will come and work great miracles and signs. They will even try to fool God's chosen ones. 25But I have warned you ahead of time. 26If you are told that the Messiah is out in the desert, don't go there! And if you are told that he is in some secret place, don't believe it! 27The coming of the Son of Man will be like lightning that can be seen from east to west. 28Where there is a corpse, there will always be buzzards. [a] When the Son of Man Appears

(Mark 13.24-27; Luke 21.25-28)

29Right after those days of suffering,
"The sun will become dark,
and the moon
will no longer shine.
The stars will fall,
and the powers in the sky [b] will be shaken."
30Then a sign will appear in the sky. And there will be the Son of Man. [c] All nations on earth will weep when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31At the sound of a loud trumpet, he will send his angels to bring his chosen ones together from all over the earth. No One Knows the Day or Time

(Mark 13.32-37; Luke 17.26-30,34-36)

36No one knows the day or hour. The angels in heaven don't know, and the Son himself doesn't know. [e] Only the Father knows. 37When the Son of Man appears, things will be just as they were when Noah lived. 38People were eating, drinking, and getting married right up to the day that the flood came and Noah went into the big boat. 39They didn't know anything was happening until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be when the Son of Man appears. 40Two men will be in the same field, but only one will be taken. The other will be left. 41Two women will be together grinding grain, but only one will be taken. The other will be left. 42So be on your guard! You don't know when your Lord will come. 43Homeowners never know when a thief is coming, and they are always on guard to keep one from breaking in. 44Always be ready! You don't know when the Son of Man will come.

In conclusion, the rapture " implies" -and I say that toung in cheek- that people will just vanish while others are left without knowing a thing. I'm not looking for a negatively heated debate here. I myself question the very idea. After reading the above quoted passages, directly cut and pasted from the bible, I encourage your thoughtful responses May God be a blessing to you all!

I wished that when people came in here that they would just take alook around and see what has been posted , I don't mean to dump this on you, but I just found another thread started today on once saved always saved , and now you post this on the raptuire there is already and has been for quite awhile a thread about the rapture, where are the moderators in this forum is there really a reason we should allow mutli- threads on the same subjects. But while I am here if

In conclusion, the rapture " implies" -and I say that toung in cheek- that people will just vanish while others are left without knowing a thing. I'm not looking for a negatively heated debate here. I myself question the very idea.

what do you do with these verses :

Mt 24:39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Mt 24:40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.Mt 24:41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.Mt 24:42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[bygrace]

Revelation 20

The Thousand Years

1I saw an angel come down from heaven, carrying the key to the deep pit and a big chain. 2He chained the dragon for a thousand years. It is that old snake, who is also known as the devil and Satan. 3Then the angel threw the dragon into the pit. He locked and sealed it, so that a thousand years would go by before the dragon could fool the nations again. But after that, it would have to be set free for a little while.

4I saw thrones, and sitting on those thrones were the ones who had been given the right to judge. I also saw the souls of the people who had their heads cut off because they had told about Jesus and preached God's message. They were the same ones who had not worshiped the beast or the idol, and they had refused to let its mark be put on their hands or foreheads. They will come to life and rule with Christ for a thousand years. 5-6These people are the first to be raised to life, and they are especially blessed and holy. The second death [a] has no power over them. They will be priests for God and Christ and will rule with them for a thousand years. No other dead people were raised to life until a thousand years later.

Which naturally brings me to this:

Matthew 24:23-51 (Contemporary English Version)


23Someone may say, "Here is the Messiah!" or "There he is!" But don't believe it. 24False messiahs and false prophets will come and work great miracles and signs. They will even try to fool God's chosen ones. 25But I have warned you ahead of time. 26If you are told that the Messiah is out in the desert, don't go there! And if you are told that he is in some secret place, don't believe it! 27The coming of the Son of Man will be like lightning that can be seen from east to west. 28Where there is a corpse, there will always be buzzards. [a] When the Son of Man Appears

(Mark 13.24-27; Luke 21.25-28)

29Right after those days of suffering,
"The sun will become dark,
and the moon
will no longer shine.
The stars will fall,
and the powers in the sky [b] will be shaken."
30Then a sign will appear in the sky. And there will be the Son of Man. [c] All nations on earth will weep when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31At the sound of a loud trumpet, he will send his angels to bring his chosen ones together from all over the earth. No One Knows the Day or Time

(Mark 13.32-37; Luke 17.26-30,34-36)

36No one knows the day or hour. The angels in heaven don't know, and the Son himself doesn't know. [e] Only the Father knows. 37When the Son of Man appears, things will be just as they were when Noah lived. 38People were eating, drinking, and getting married right up to the day that the flood came and Noah went into the big boat. 39They didn't know anything was happening until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be when the Son of Man appears. 40Two men will be in the same field, but only one will be taken. The other will be left. 41Two women will be together grinding grain, but only one will be taken. The other will be left. 42So be on your guard! You don't know when your Lord will come. 43Homeowners never know when a thief is coming, and they are always on guard to keep one from breaking in. 44Always be ready! You don't know when the Son of Man will come.

In conclusion, the rapture " implies" -and I say that toung in cheek- that people will just vanish while others are left without knowing a thing. I'm not looking for a negatively heated debate here. I myself question the very idea. After reading the above quoted passages, directly cut and pasted from the bible, I encourage your thoughtful responses May God be a blessing to you all!

Thanks for your thoughts.

There is no suggestion in these or any other Christ appearing/Coming passages that the wicked will be left for any protracted period (including 7yrs). They are left behind for the same reason the rejecters in Noah's day and Sodom were - destruction.

 

[bygrace]

I wished that when people came in here that they would just take alook around and see what has been posted , I don't mean to dump this on you, but I just found another thread started today on once saved always saved , and now you post this on the raptuire there is already and has been for quite awhile a thread about the rapture, where are the moderators in this forum is there really a reason we should allow mutli- threads on the same subjects. But while I am here if



what do you do with these verses :

Mt 24:39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Mt 24:40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.Mt 24:41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.Mt 24:42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Jesus said, “the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all” (v27).

Jesus continues, “the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all” (v29).

The Lord concludes, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (or) ‘apokaluptetai’ ” (v 30).

Jesus said that those left behind will suffer the same total, immediate and awful doom that Noah's world and Sodom suffered in their day (Luke 17). Once the ark door closes that is it. It is too late.

The Lord immediately continues, “in that day (the day of final destruction just described), he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.” (Luke 17:31-35).

If we look closer at this passage we learn, “in that night (when He shall Come) there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be paraleemftheésetai (or) taken, and the other shall be afetheésetai (or) left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be paraleemftheésetai (or) taken, and the other afetheésetai (or) left.” Luke 17:34-35

It is interesting when we look at the meaning of this Greek word paraleemftheésetai in the reading. Strong’s says that it indicates, “to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself in any familiar or intimate act or relation.” The word is interpreted elsewhere in the King James Version as ‘receive’, ‘take unto’ or ‘take with’. The company that are therefore received by Christ in this passage are those that have been brought into an intimate mystical union with Him through salvation; they are His elect. This narrative is unquestionably referring to the catching away of the saints, and the marriage of the lamb.

This is the same word that Christ used in John 14:3 when He promised His disciples that He would come again to receive them, saying, “In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and paraleémpsomai (or) receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

Interestingly, the word used here to describe the second party in view is the Greek word afetheésetai, which carries the meaning to forsake, put away or lay aside. This is the fate that awaits the wicked alone when Christ comes in all His glory.

Q. What then happens to those left behind?

A. The Lord’s solemn warning in the midst of the aforementioned narrative confirms the answer, and is in complete agreement with Christ’s unambiguous preceding comments in the same chapter, and every other explicit passage in Scripture. He makes it abundantly clear that instant and complete destruction befalls the wicked. He solemnly counsels the disciples, “Remember Lot's wife.”

Q. Why must we “remember Lot's wife”? What befell her?

She got caught in the escape out of Sodom because her heart was still there. Despite being fully aware of the impending destruction, Lot's wife’s heart was located in Sodom and towards the awful iniquity; this was despite the fact that she also desired to be with the people of God. Notwithstanding, Genesis 19:26 says of Lot, “his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.” Her foolish refusal to once-and-for-all turn her back on Sodom caused her to be instantly and completely destroyed. Through her un-preparedness, she was immediately cast into a lost hell – ****ed and doomed for all eternity – without hope and without Christ.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

You don't have to participate in them all I ust wanted to wade through all the mud slinging.
As for what you have to say, I agree with the rest of the verses that were omitted in my original post.
Whereas one person is taken and the other one left, would you entertain the idea that maybe it's referring to the reality of the small numbers that will actually make it through the final days? I mean, if you believe in the 144,000 in a literal sense, and I'm not so sure that it is, that's not a lot of people when you think about how many people are on this planet at this very moment.
I"m not here to preach or be preached at, but I'm here to learn.

I wished that when people came in here that they would just take alook around and see what has been posted , I don't mean to dump this on you, but I just found another thread started today on once saved always saved , and now you post this on the raptuire there is already and has been for quite awhile a thread about the rapture, where are the moderators in this forum is there really a reason we should allow mutli- threads on the same subjects. But while I am here if



what do you do with these verses :

Mt 24:39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Mt 24:40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.Mt 24:41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.Mt 24:42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[danb]

MyBagsRPacked, The people comming to life and reigning with him are comming to the earth. Jesus will establish his kingdom here on earth
for a thousand years. After the tribulation, not in heaven. Not everyone at the end of tribulation will be destroyed. The way you
stated it, does that mean the people will be left on their own to do it all over again? Jesus will come to earth and set foot on the Mt. of Olives.

One taken one left refers to Harpozo. The 144,000 is a literal # or he wouldn't have listed each tribe. These are the ones who will be here to
whitness to the people left behind. Thats why they'll have God's mark on their foreheads so they can't be touched.


www.webspawner.com/users/danbel/index.html

 

[watchmen]

MyBagsRPacked, The people comming to life and reigning with him are comming to the earth. Jesus will establish his kingdom here on earth
for a thousand years. After the tribulation, not in heaven. Not everyone at the end of tribulation will be destroyed. The way you
stated it, does that mean the people will be left on their own to do it all over again? Jesus will come to earth and set foot on the Mt. of Olives.

One taken one left refers to Harpozo. The 144,000 is a literal # or he wouldn't have listed each tribe. These are the ones who will be here to
whitness to the people left behind. Thats why they'll have God's mark on their foreheads so they can't be touched.


www.webspawner.com/users/danbel/index.html

Good post Dan, and yes the Millennium is here on earth. those resurrected, and raptured will reign with Christ as kings and priest here on earth in there immortal bodies. We must realize though that the resurrection of the just, and the rapture of the living saints both occur on the day of Christ post trib 2nd coming and not before the tribulation starts.

 

[loveschild]

We've been warned. Ask God to show what's wrong in your heart. Hate, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy, pride, are you showing love everywhere you go? Are you helping the poor the best you can?

 

[Thaddaeus]

You don't have to participate in them all I ust wanted to wade through all the mud slinging.
As for what you have to say, I agree with the rest of the verses that were omitted in my original post.
Whereas one person is taken and the other one left, would you entertain the idea that maybe it's referring to the reality of the small numbers that will actually make it through the final days? I mean, if you believe in the 144,000 in a literal sense, and I'm not so sure that it is, that's not a lot of people when you think about how many people are on this planet at this very moment.
I"m not here to preach or be preached at, but I'm here to learn.

you could go one more verse past the 144,000 you could see how many are taken just out of the tribulation

Re 7:9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Re 7:13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?Re 7:14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Look, I have about decided to just throw my hands up and say what is the use, but like david as he was preparing to fight the Giant and all the Israel army mighty men of war was just sitting, doing nothing while that uncircumcised philistine was defying, the God that david worshipped. david ask is there not a cause, so judge me all you want, think bad things about all you want, but I will stand for the truth, I will stand for the Word of God as the truth, and I will stand for God til I draw my last breathe here on earth. a lot of people keep harping on the fact they believe that Jesus takes the Church out of here the same day of His second coming, and this could very much be true, however this does not prove that they are the same events. for look as with the Lord a day is a thousand years and a thousand years as one day, so could a seven year and one day period of time be within A thousand years in the eyes of God. and could it also be within one day in the eyes of God!!! OH yes. let me share this thought with you also I have posted it before, but because I believe there is a cause for the truth I will post this one more time in here. a day, a period of time to us. but even with our time limitation, a day has two senses of time in the beginning there was a broad sense of a day and a narrow sense of a day. a day was divided by the light, the lighted part was called day and the dark part called night , but the nighttime and the daytime was a day. in the day of the Lord could also and does according to some scholars and bible students, have a broad sense and a narrow sense, and as the day in creation the evening and the day was one day, the jewish calendar supports this time keeping with their broad sense of the day starting at 6pm at night time , so night times comes first in the jews keep time, just as it could be on the day of the Lord thus Jesus says I come like a thief in the night, I take one I leave one ( the rapture). could be at the very first part of the day which would be at the start of the nighttime he also said to labor while it is daytime for night comes when no man can labor. then the anti-christ decieves people, because it is still night time of the day of the Lord, and when the light comes, light reveals things , and the anti-Christ is revealed for who He really is, because we have entered into the narrow sense of the day of the Lord, the daytime of the tribulation. then just as the tribulation period, just as the day of the Lord draws to the end of the day all nations that are left , see He coming in His Glory to me this is the only way that explains how the Bride is up there and ready for the marriage supper before the first resurrection and the second resurrection

Re 19:6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.Re 19:9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Re 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Pete_Martinez]

I know, but if you still believe in the pre-trib rapture, your father is the devil and you're leading people to hell.
...
...
...
...
...
Just kidding but that's the way it sounds sometimes from the post tribbers. Then again I've heard pre tribbers talk like that too. Post, Pre, be ready anyways!

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

Is it just me or do people just like to argue? lol We essentially agree....
All I'm wondering or discussing is if every eye will see him or not.
I quoted 3, yes THREE passages that say we couldn't miss it if we tried. I would challenge someone to find me an equal number as to make the arm wrestle a little less lopsided lol

 

[watchmen]

Is it just me or do people just like to argue? lol We essentially agree....
All I'm wondering or discussing is if every eye will see him or not.
I quoted 3, yes THREE passages that say we couldn't miss it if we tried.

You are right every eye will see Christ when He returns. The idea of a secret return of Christ before His ''real'' return is an invention of the pretrib theologian.