Doctrine of Men or of God?

[parablepete]

I have been reading a book"Musele and a Shovel" He told the story of a young married couple. She was was fixing a ham and she cut off the end, her husband asked her why? So she aked her mother why? She said that is the way your Grandmother did it, so she ask grandma why she cut off the end of the ham, before cooking it, Sweetie I didn't have a pan big enough so I just cut it off. For years things like this can happen it its a true story.

I believe some of these things have crept into religion as well.

Once saved always saved, Join the church of your choise, Faith only, My personal Savior, The sinners prayer. Where is the bible for this kind of thinking. Can you find the verse that teaches this?

 

[LovePink]

Well, I guess some things come into play "what version are you running" and "whose mail are you reading"-

Doctrine of men = knowledge about God.

Doctrine of God = knowledge of God.

Can you find the verse that teaches this?

"The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption.

Pete, what does it mean to be a purchased possession? What does the tense "now received the atonement" mean to you? What is the gospel you believe for your salvation? When were your sins paid for and when were they forgiven, all of them- what are you trusting in, the faith of Christ or your faith in Christ, there is a difference in that. Words are important and not interchangeable, faith in Christ is not the same as the faith of Christ...

 

[Karraster]

Hi Parable, your post made me chuckle, and so true. Having confessed there is one Mighty Creator above everything and sent His Son to pay our ransom is a good foundation to have. Then we are commanded to love Almighty for all we're worth, and the only way to know how to do that is ask Him and read His Word, from front to back, and do as it says to the best of our understanding.

It may be possible to pick and choose verses that standing alone may support just about anything, but that's not rightly dividing the truth of the Word. In fact, it is downright rebellious. For when the motive is there to "make" the Word agree with you instead of earnestly seeking the wisdom thereof, that's not getting into agreement with Him.

 

[LovePink]

There is a thing with "rightly dividing the word of truth", you measure according to comparative excellency.

That is getting the "profit" out of Scripture according to God's distinctions, He is the helper & teacher. Take Romans 4:5 for example;

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

The doctrine of God, would lead us to believe & understand the "faith" in this verse is whose? Saving faith is always the "faith of Christ", "the righteousness of God"

" A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight."

 

[parablepete]

Going to see my GS play basketball today. When I get home, I just might have some time to think on these things.

Please forgive my spelling. My education is not my strong point......LoL

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE: Once saved always saved, Join the church of your choise, Faith only, My personal Savior, The sinners prayer. Where is the bible for this kind of thinking. Can you find the verse that teaches this?
END QUOTE:

SINNER’S PRAYER? IF you mean some SPECIAL SET OF WORDS THAT MUST BE SAID IN EXACT ORDER…..then, no, no such thing….BUT AS FOR THE NEED FOR SINNERS TO PRAY FOR FORGIVENESS……..YES!

Romans 10:8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 .) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 .) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 .) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 .) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 .) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 .) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 .) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

MY PERSONAL SAVIOUR?

John 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 .) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 .) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 .) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Salvation in and of itself is a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GOD AND MAN……goodness…….

Matthew 18:10) Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 .) For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 .) How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 .) And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 .) Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

JOIN THE CHURCH OF YOUR CHOICE……….There is only one Church, and all blood bought, born again children of God are members of that Church……….does not mean there aren’t/can’t be different groups.

John 10:14) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 .) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 .) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

FAITH ONLY? This again? …………..sigh………..

Ephesians 2:4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 .) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6 .) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 .) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 .) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 .) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 .) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoeverbelieveth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 .) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 .) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Believing IS FAITH!

Now, that OSAS? Yeah, I’m not on board with that, even though there are Scriptures which can be used to argue the point……..

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE:

It may be possible to pick and choose verses that standing alone may support just about anything, but that's not rightly dividing the truth of the Word. In fact, it is downright rebellious. For when the motive is there to "make" the Word agree with you instead of earnestly seeking the wisdom thereof, that's not getting into agreement with Him.

END QUOTE........


So, this reads...........IF I don't agree with you all, well, shoot, I must not be a Christian.........I'M A REBELIOUS person....know what? If that is true...........then I will proudly stand with Jesus Christ MY PERSONAL Lord and Saviour and willingly accept your condemnation of me as a REBEL!

Romans 3:27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay; but by the law of faith. 28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:……………………….20) He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21) And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able to perform. 22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 9:31) But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32) Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at the stumblingstone;
Romans 10:4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth……………………..9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved……………..13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 11:6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Galatians2:16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Colossians 2:6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him; 7) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[p_rehbein]

Faith, n. 1. Confidence. 2. Religious belief. 3. Loyalty.
Faith’ ful, adj. 1. Loyal. 2. Having religious belief. 3. Copying accurately.
-----faith’ful-ly, adv.
-----faith’ful-ness, n.
Work, n, 1. Exertion; labor. 2. Task. 3. Employment. 4. Place of employment. 5. Materials on which one works. 6. Result of work. 7. (pl.) industrial plant. ---adj. 8. Of or for work.----v. 9) do work. 10) operate successfully. 11) move or give. 12) Solve. 13. Excite. 14. Ferment. Work’able, addj. ---- work’er, n.


Genesis 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

(those who believe this must do so based on “faith.”)

Genesis 15:1) After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. 2) And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3) And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4) And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5) And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6) And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

(Abram believed ---had faith that God would do what He said He would do---God, and God counted his belief/faith as righteousness to Abram)

From the Word of God concerning faith:

Deuteronomy 4:9-10/1 Samuel 12:16/2 Samuel 22:31/2 Samuel 24:10/ 2 Kings 6:16-17/2 Kings 13:14-19/1 Chronicles 19:13/2 Chronicles 15:2/2 Chronicles 32:10-15/Ezra 8:21-23/Job 1:22; 2:10; 13:15; 16:19; 19:25-26/Psalm 34:8; 57:2; 78:5-8; 115:13; 117:2; 118:5-9; 131:3; 145:13; 147:10-11/Proverbs 3:5-6; 22:4; 29:25/Nahum 1:7/Isaiah 7:9; 26:3/Daniel 3:16-17; 9:18/Hosea 10:5/Habakkuk 2:4/Zechariah 12:5/Matthew 8:2-4; 8:13; 9:18-25; 14:22-31; 15:21-28; 17:17; 17-20; 21:21-22/Mark 4:30-32; 2:15; 4:36-41; 6:4-6; 9:23-24; 10:13-16; 10:46-52; 11:24/Luke 7:1-10; 11:20; 17:5-6/ 22:31-38/John 4:50; 5:45; 11:25-26/Acts 6:5; 17:2-3/Romans 1:17(Galatians 3:11 and Hebrews 10:38); Romans 4:1-3; 4:20; 5:1-2; 8:24-25 (2 Corinthians 4:18) Romans 9:30-33 (Galatians 3:2-5 and James 2:17) Romans 10:17; 12:3; 14:23 (Hebrews 11:6); Romans 15:13/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 3:18-23/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Corinthians 5:1-7; 13:5/Galatians 3:6-9; 5:6/Ephesians 6:16/Colossians 1:15-23; 2:6-8/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Thessalonians 1:3/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Thessalonians 1:4/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Timothy 1:19; 3:9; 6:12/2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Timothy 1:12/Titus 1:4/Hebrews 2:9; 4:1-3; 6:6; 11:1; 11:2-40/James 1:6/1[SUP]st[/SUP] Peter 1:5; 1:8-9/1[SUP]st[/SUP] John 5:4

 

[starfield]

I have been reading a book"Musele and a Shovel" He told the story of a young married couple. She was was fixing a ham and she cut off the end, her husband asked her why? So she aked her mother why? She said that is the way your Grandmother did it, so she ask grandma why she cut off the end of the ham, before cooking it, Sweetie I didn't have a pan big enough so I just cut it off. For years things like this can happen it its a true story.

Application of the story: Don't blindly follow false teachings. Dig deep and examine the root of what you've been taught. Just because majority subscribe to a particular doctrine doesn’t mean it is truth. "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have been reading a book"Musele and a Shovel" He told the story of a young married couple. She was was fixing a ham and she cut off the end, her husband asked her why? So she aked her mother why? She said that is the way your Grandmother did it, so she ask grandma why she cut off the end of the ham, before cooking it, Sweetie I didn't have a pan big enough so I just cut it off. For years things like this can happen it its a true story.

I believe some of these things have crept into religion as well.

Once saved always saved, Join the church of your choise, Faith only, My personal Savior, The sinners prayer. Where is the bible for this kind of thinking. Can you find the verse that teaches this?

These are just a few questions so take them as such...

1. Is God the one who designed the grand scheme of things?
2. Is God the one who created all things to fulfill the grand scheme of things?
3. Is God the one who disrobed himself of Glory and died for the grand scheme of things?
4. Is it God that calls and convicts men of sin?
5. Is it God that has given every man a measure of faith?
6. Is it God's Spirit that convicts of sin and leads to repentance?
7. Is it God that saves men, women and children that exercise faith into the blood of Jesus?
8. Is not God the author of all things?
9. Is God the beginning and ending of all things?
10 Is God the first and the last, the Alpha and the Omega?

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, it shall be FOREVER; nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

If God is the one saving somebody and that salvation is not FOREVER then the above scripture is a lie! It does not say (whatsoever) except salvation!

 

[parablepete]

Doctrine of men = knowledge about God................I look at this as men making there own doctrine up, adding to the gospel.

Doctrine of God = knowledge of God......................This is what God/His Word teachs... TRUTH!

My Salvation is in Christ and his teachings

 

[parablepete]

SECOND POSTER............................... I AGREE 100%

 

[parablepete]

These are just a few questions so take them as such...

1. Is God the one who designed the grand scheme of things? YES
2. Is God the one who created all things to fulfill the grand scheme of things? YES
3. Is God the one who disrobed himself of Glory and died for the grand scheme of things? SENT HIS SON
4. Is it God that calls and convicts men of sin? HS/HIS WORD THE BIBLE
5. Is it God that has given every man a measure of faith? YES
6. Is it God's Spirit that convicts of sin and leads to repentance? HIS HS, THE BIBLE/WORD
7. Is it God that saves men, women and children that exercise faith into the blood of Jesus? WE MUST BE BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST WHERE ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSING ARE.
8. Is not God the author of all things? YES
9. Is God the beginning and ending of all things? YES
10 Is God the first and the last, the Alpha and the Omega? YES

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, it shall be FOREVER; nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

What ever God has done will stand for sure. However, God made a change in the Law. God has provided us a way to be saved if we choose not to follow him, he has told us he would not save us. I see what you are saying that if we are saved we can't be lost because God don't mess up. We are in a saved condition If I did today I would be saved, but, if I turn my back on God I can't expect him to save me.

 

[crossnote]

It all hinges on that little hypothetical word 'if'.

'if' it is possible for one who is truly converted to end up ultimately denying Jesus to their grave, then yes they would perish.

But God not willing that any should perish..

and better...

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

...sort of cancels out the 'if' to be replaced by 'it's not'.

 

[YMFPITW]

I am sure that there are many scriptures that can be manipulated to support your point, however this is not what the bible teaches. Jude 4 says that "men turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner our Lord, Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 4:4-6 says that there is only one faith.
It is very important to make sure that you identify the true religion and join that church.
how do you identify? Luke 6:44 says each tree is known by its own fruit and John 13:35 says that "by this they will know you are my disciples, if you have love among one another"
The bible is a very big book and it would be wise to understand that God wants us to read it and gain accurate knowledge (John 17:3) to gain an understanding of who he is and what he expects from us. Matthew 7:21 says "not everyone saying 'Lord, Lord' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens. 23 even says "I never knew you! get away from me you workers of lawlessness." James 2:17 says that faith without works is dead. But the most important scripture to remember is that of Matthew 24:14 where Jesus says that the end will not even come until ALL of the inhabited earth has been preached to with the good news of the kingdom.
hope this helps
Mary

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

if you ask fo a Bible verse for incorrect non Biblical Doctrine, you will always get them...

 

[parablepete]

if you ask fo a Bible verse for incorrect non Biblical Doctrine, you will always get them...

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD ASK FOR A WRONG VERSE? DON'T MAKE SENSE TO ME?

 

[parablepete]

I am sure that there are many scriptures that can be manipulated to support your point, however this is not what the bible teaches. Jude 4 says that "men turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner our Lord, Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 4:4-6 says that there is only one faith.
It is very important to make sure that you identify the true religion and join that church.
how do you identify? Luke 6:44 says each tree is known by its own fruit and John 13:35 says that "by this they will know you are my disciples, if you have love among one another"
The bible is a very big book and it would be wise to understand that God wants us to read it and gain accurate knowledge (John 17:3) to gain an understanding of who he is and what he expects from us. Matthew 7:21 says "not everyone saying 'Lord, Lord' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens. 23 even says "I never knew you! get away from me you workers of lawlessness." James 2:17 says that faith without works is dead. But the most important scripture to remember is that of Matthew 24:14 where Jesus says that the end will not even come until ALL of the inhabited earth has been preached to with the good news of the kingdom.
hope this helps
Mary

I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE, BUT, THIS IS BIBLE AND TAUGHT CORRECT. EXECPT, FOR THE LAST PART, THE WORD HAS BEEN PREACHED TO ALL THE WORLD ALREADY.

 

[LovePink]

My Salvation is in Christ and his teachings

According to the teaching of Christ,

"For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son"

Mainstream Christians believe & agree Paul is our apostle, the apostle to the gentiles, sent by Christ (Jn 13:20 kjv) when Paul says according to "my gospel" what is that gospel?

I will post a bit of scripture for convenience;

25*Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

16*In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

8*Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel

++++

I want to share a few portions from Galations;

6*I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8*But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10*For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[parablepete]

I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE, BUT, THIS IS BIBLE AND TAUGHT CORRECT. EXECPT, FOR THE LAST PART, THE WORD HAS BEEN PREACHED TO ALL THE WORLD ALREADY.

I THINK I MADE A BOO BOO HERE. I AM GETTING MORMON DOCTRINE MIXED UP WITH OTHERS. I AM STILL NOT SURE BUT, THE VERSE I THOUGHT TAUGHT IT WAS IN JUDE AND I LOOKED AT IT AND IT SAID SAINTS, NOT WORLD.