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Thread: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by endtimes View Post
    Yes Judas hung himself. The body hung around to the point that the gasses in the dead bloted body burst asunder.
    "And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5)

    "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out" (Acts 1:18).

    Ancient terminology did not recognize “hanging” just as hanging from a rope, but as hanging on anything. For instance, it is said accurately that Jesus was “hung” on a tree, even though he was nailed there. I believe Judas hung himself not with a rope around his neck, but by impaling himself on a pike causing his intestines to spill-out which in ancient terminology would have been referred to as “Judas hanging himself.” The bible isn't specific, but it says Judas fell headlong, not as a person falling feet-first from a rope. So its likely he secured a spear into the ground, piled up some stones, and jumped/fell headfirst, thus making Matthew and Acts correct.
    http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/649434


    Last edited by Dan58; February 12th, 2014 at 03:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    I added some more details to the other Thread about this. take a look.

    Judas Iscariot: Events surrounding his death.Bible study notes.
    Last edited by nathan3; February 12th, 2014 at 04:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mystdancer50 View Post
    a. Judas hung himself and it broke Jesus' heart. Realize that Judas would have been forgiven, much as Peter was forgiven, had he not killed himself and rather, had repented. Jesus would have had the disciples summon Judas to meet with the risen Lord, just as He singled out Peter.

    b. He tossed the money to the Pharisees but they stated that they couldn't keep it or use it for the temple because it was tainted by the betrayal so they used it to buy a field and using it to bury the poor, called "Potter's Field".

    c. Realize that Acts is Peter talking to the others and seeking to replace Judas. I believe that it varies only because Peter was expressing the death of Judas in his own words, just as we do when repeating news of someone's passing. We don't quote the story word for word, most times, but rather use the language that is more familiar to us. Realize, too, that Peter was very passionate and usually spoke out of turn, like most of us did. I think that he was still very angry with Judas and, in order to show this, he worded the hanging in a gruesome way, somewhat to warn the others that whoever they chose to take Judas' place would be expected to do far better than Judas did.
    Wow!
    I see a teacher here (I never saw this before). Don´t leave those you can teach, PLEASE!
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    Perhaps I´m a loser, but I wish GOD had given me a humble, thin and short woman I longed for (less than 5,5").

    I stopped having unreal and unpersonalized friendships. I rather starve for the attention (or love) I missed when not having anything worth to pay for both things to get all.

    Now on, I 'm not expecting followers...

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    Arrow Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    @ TashMeyer

    "c. Why are these 2 accounts narratted differently - aren't they supposed to "be the same somewhat?""

    While you read all the accute answers, you will get why those accounts are viewed differently. Truth is not always flat, it has many perspectives to be seen and pondered.
    TashMeyer76 likes this.
    Perhaps I´m a loser, but I wish GOD had given me a humble, thin and short woman I longed for (less than 5,5").

    I stopped having unreal and unpersonalized friendships. I rather starve for the attention (or love) I missed when not having anything worth to pay for both things to get all.

    Now on, I 'm not expecting followers...

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Why do people always search for errors when they read the Bible?

    Do you red your owners manual for your car looking for spell checking?
    This is silly!
    God is trying to save your life!

    All these errors turn out to be nothing!

    So you get a telegram that says

    Come to florida, your dad died, mom needs help...

    and so you say

    Mom would never say dad, she would call him husband...
    so you dont go

    hey
    it is YOUR loss...
    look and pick at how things are worded and you will perish.

    sorry about that, we will miss you.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Maybe that is why you could not grasp French or Greek....because in your ignorance of those two languages you could see nothing but discrepancies...NO DISREPECT MEANT.
    I had four years of French, and could read it reasonably well, but was poor at speaking it. I took a year of Latin but have never attempted to learn Greek, though I did learn the alphabet because of my interest in astronomy.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycel View Post
    I had four years of French, and could read it reasonably well, but was poor at speaking it. I took a year of Latin but have never attempted to learn Greek, though I did learn the alphabet because of my interest in astronomy.
    I like Greek because it is very expressive and they had (one) word for everything...I.E. the root of the word...unlike English....for example (cool) can mean 2, 3 different things in English...in Greek one word/one thought...There are tenses that are brought out in Greek that the English cannot touch such as an Aorist Tense Verb---->present continuing results from a past completed action...

    Never had a interest in Latin or French....

    I was always interested in the stars and even built a solar model for science class when I was 12 that actually worked.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ji View Post
    a. No he hanged himself because of self-condemnation.God hates it when people do that.He was forgiven the moment he repented.That is God's Love.

    he was not forgiven, he murdered himself an murderers "shall not inherit the kingdom of God"

    Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


    he hanged himself because he betrayed innocent blood, he didnt repent, he repented of himself.

    Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
    Mat 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
    Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
    Mat 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.

    repentence comes from God, if he dont give it then all you have is a worldly sorrow which does nothing.

    2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
    Do you believe that both the account in Acts and the account in Matthew are inspired accounts?
    No, I don't. The accounts both give different stories about the death of Judas which, to my thinking, is evidence they were composed by men using different sources. Matthew and Acts are not in agreement and those who seek to eliminate the discrepancies themselves invent new stories to smooth out the differences. Which is it, did Judas's body become bloated after he hung himself or was he murdered by being gutted? Believers here make both claims, but both sets of claims are intended to rationalize the discrepancy between Matthew and Acts. No one has provided a third option, that Judas' body was deliberately bloated by God as punishment for his betrayal. This was the cause of death given by an early 2nd century Christian writer who composed a five volume history of the church. He wrote that tradition held Judas

    "became so bloated in the flesh that he could not pass through a place that was easily wide enough for a wagon.... They say that his eyelids swelled to such an extent that he could not see the light at all... and his genitals became more disgusting and larger than anyone's; simply by relieving himself, to his wanton shame, he emitted pus and worms that flowed through his entire body.

    And they say that after he suffered numerous torments and punishments, he died on his own land.... Indeed, even to this day no one can pass by the place without holding their nose. This was how great an outpouring he made from his flesh on the ground."


    The author is Papias and it seems to me Acts is probably using him or another writer who is making reference to the terrible bloating God inflicted upon Judas as punishment. Acts is in agreement with Papias. Note: "Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out" (Acts 1:18). Why did he burst open? It's because, as Papias explains, Judas was punished by God with a terrible bloating. Acts appears to recognize this. It says that Judas fell headlong. That is he tripped while walking and was so bloated he burst open. He did not bloat after death, he was not gutted by a knife. People who say these things are conflating two different accounts and then concocting their own new creation.

    Sometimes reading outside sources helps to illuminate biblical accounts. This is one of those instances. The fact is Matthew presumes death by hanging and Acts recognizes a second tradition.
    Last edited by Cycel; February 12th, 2014 at 09:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    I like Greek because it is very expressive and they had (one) word for everything...I.E. the root of the word...unlike English....for example (cool) can mean 2, 3 different things in English...in Greek one word/one thought...There are tenses that are brought out in Greek that the English cannot touch such as an Aorist Tense Verb---->present continuing results from a past completed action...
    I remember writing a test in grade 12 French and getting perfect or near perfect. It was testing us on conjugating verbs in the past perfect and another tense that eludes me at the moment. Despite my doing well most of the class failed and so two weeks later the teacher gave a surprise re-test. The second time around I failed. When it comes to this sort of thing I seem to have memory issues.

    Did you hear of the passing of Shirley Temple Black? I read yesterday that as a child actor she only needed to hear her lines once to remember them. When other cast members forgot their lines she'd whisper them. I can't imagine possessing a memory with that kind of staying power.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal
    Never had a interest in Latin or French....
    Learning French gives one a real advantage in many parts of Canada. Plus, it is on all the cereal boxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal
    I was always interested in the stars and even built a solar model for science class when I was 12 that actually worked.
    Very cool. I've had a long standing interest in astronomy.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    HAHAH to the cereal boxes...I have French Canadian blood in my blood line as well as Cherokee Indian...

    My fascination with the stars is really based upon the speed of light and the stoppage of time.

    A far as memory goes..I have a good memory (not photographic) but pretty good. When I was in the marines in the 80's they separated about 5 or 6 of us out of the 6 platoons that were in our (series) about 400 guys and offered us some interesting jobs based upon IQ--->never really figured out how they judge that, but said I had a high 160's IQ which has helped me I guess through the years as I figured out and completed a high school Algebra examine at the age of 7 or 8. But I suppose you can be smart, but not very bright or have common sense either hahahah

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    I have French Canadian blood in my blood line as well as Cherokee Indian...
    The 1890 Canadian census listed by great-grandfather's ancestry as British, but my great-grandmother's appears to read Iroquois. Among her personal affects, after she passed, I found one tattered photo of a native man. I plan one day to have a genetic work-up to settle the matter. I'm hoping I have native ancestry confirmed.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by TashMeyer76 View Post
    I've been troubled somewhat trying to determine what to believe....here.

    The book of Matthew States the following - Matt 27:3-5
    Now when Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus had been condemned, he regretted what he had done and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood!” But they said, “What is that to us? You take care of it yourself!” So Judas threw the silver coins into the temple and left. Then he went out and hanged himself.
    Now if you go to read the following verse - Acts 1:18-19 (by Peter)

    Now this man Judas acquired a field with the reward of his unjust deed, and falling headfirst he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out. This became known to all who lived in Jerusalem, so that in their own language they called that field Hakeldama, that is, “Field of Blood.”

    The questions I have...

    a. Did Judas hang himself or die through holy intervention?
    b. Did he return the money to the Pharisees or did he buy land with it?
    c. Why are these 2 accounts narratted differently - aren't they supposed to "be the same somewhat?"

    I believe the accounts differ in only what they focus on. In one passage Judas hanging himself is mentioned. In the other it's mentioned he burst open. In the Old Testament it was a rule that you weren't supposed to leave a man to hang on a tree overnight. So the people, seeing him, probably cut him down and he fell from the tree and burst open when he hit the ground. And I think that's what the other passage focuses on in order to explain the name of the field (i.e. Field of Blood).

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycel View Post
    The 1890 Canadian census listed by great-grandfather's ancestry as British, but my great-grandmother's appears to read Iroquois. Among her personal affects, after she passed, I found one tattered photo of a native man. I plan one day to have a genetic work-up to settle the matter. I'm hoping I have native ancestry confirmed.
    I actually have it on both sides of my genetic make up, but nobody can answer what type of Indian blood that I have on my dads side.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    I think any idea that Judas bloated by himself and then got stuck in a gate and run over by a chariot was probably hyperbole that was invented later based on a misunderstanding of the events recorded in Acts. If Judas were excessively fat and it was reported that he burst open when he fell, then it's easy to see how this report could have evolved.

    Judas walked about in this world a sad example of impiety; for his body having swollen to such an extent that he could not pass where a chariot could pass easily, he was crushed by the chariot, so that his bowels gushed out.
    One account mentions Judas hanging himself, the other account mentions him bursting open in a field when he fell, neither has anything to do with natural bloating necessarily, certainly no explicit mentioning of him getting stuck in a gate and a chariot running him over, and both are the earliest records of events we have. And neither of them exhibits hyperbole or necessarily contradicts the other. I think your best bet is to stick with the Gospel accounts.
    Last edited by TheAristocat; February 13th, 2014 at 01:57 AM.

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    nathan3
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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    He repented; it cant be any clearer in scripture.

    And not only that, the people that murdered Christ used scripture as a guide to kill them.
    The prophecy states Judas would die, so it makes perfect sense they followed scriptures to that end , murdering Judas as well. Judas was hanged in grief, but he did not physically hang himself. That was done by the scribes and Pharisees: which also brought the field he was killed in. They used the money Judas obtained by betraying Christ, to purchase it and have him murdered in .

    Following this to its end, it makes sense the cause of death was hanging, and cutting open. You cant cut yourself open, after hanging yourself. This is the only logical explanation.


    All other thoughts offered here dose not taking into account enough of the scripture or follow them to their, conclusions.

    notes >>> Judas Iscariot: Events surrounding his death.Bible study notes.
    Last edited by nathan3; February 13th, 2014 at 03:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by nathan3 View Post
    He repented; it cant be any clearer in scripture
    The fact that Judas hung himself suggests that he chose to punish himself rather than accept God's grace.

    It's very clear in scripture that he was given the name "son of perdition," a title reserved only for 2 individuals - Judas and the future 'man of sin'/AntiChrist. The title itself makes clear that those individuals are in an unredeemable state, that they are already damned while still alive. God wanted us to know this fact, which is why He made known to us that Judas shared this same title as the future Antichrist.

    Judas didn't believe in Jesus and God knew his heart. God may have seen that he would never have believed. Outwardly he was seen as a follower but inwardly he felt differently. I personally believe that the future "son of perdition" will have similar (if not all of the same) characteristics of Judas... an outward appearance of being a follower of Jesus, when really he's an enemy of Christ, etc.
    BradC likes this.
    "If we want to study the word of God, we need to have an open mind to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us. A closed mind lets in no light. If the Spirit illuminates a scripture, we need to be willing to display a teachable spirit. When we align ourselves with any particular camp we are no longer teachable. That is elementary"



    John 14:27: "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid"


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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by TashMeyer76 View Post
    I've been troubled somewhat trying to determine what to believe....here.

    The book of Matthew States the following - Matt 27:3-5
    Now when Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus had been condemned, he regretted what he had done and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood!” But they said, “What is that to us? You take care of it yourself!” So Judas threw the silver coins into the temple and left. Then he went out and hanged himself.
    Now if you go to read the following verse - Acts 1:18-19 (by Peter)

    Now this man Judas acquired a field with the reward of his unjust deed, and falling headfirst he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out. This became known to all who lived in Jerusalem, so that in their own language they called that field Hakeldama, that is, “Field of Blood.”

    In Matthew it says he hung himself but he didn't give all the specific details. In contrast with Acts I conclude that he hung himself in a field and his insides gushed out. The disciples all shared the same message, but some would share more details than others. Matthew didn't go into details whereas the author of Acts did.

    Since he hung himself just before the Sabbath day and would've likely been found around that time they would've left him there until after the Sabbath. So maybe when he eventually "fell" as mentioned in Acts, his "insides came out"? Or if he drove a knife into himself prior to the hanging, the rope would've given pressure and caused his insides to spill out (think hung drawn and quartered from the 1300's). Another possibility is that when they eventually found him they cut the rope to get him down and he just fell and spilled out that way.
    "If we want to study the word of God, we need to have an open mind to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us. A closed mind lets in no light. If the Spirit illuminates a scripture, we need to be willing to display a teachable spirit. When we align ourselves with any particular camp we are no longer teachable. That is elementary"



    John 14:27: "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid"


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    Default Re: Judas the Iscariot - Biblical Contradictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycel View Post
    No, I don't. The accounts both give different stories about the death of Judas which, to my thinking, is evidence they were composed by men using different sources. Matthew and Acts are not in agreement and those who seek to eliminate the discrepancies themselves invent new stories to smooth out the differences. Which is it, did Judas's body become bloated after he hung himself or was he murdered by being gutted? Believers here make both claims, but both sets of claims are intended to rationalize the discrepancy between Matthew and Acts. No one has provided a third option, that Judas' body was deliberately bloated by God as punishment for his betrayal. This was the cause of death given by an early 2nd century Christian writer who composed a five volume history of the church. He wrote that tradition held Judas

    "became so bloated in the flesh that he could not pass through a place that was easily wide enough for a wagon.... They say that his eyelids swelled to such an extent that he could not see the light at all... and his genitals became more disgusting and larger than anyone's; simply by relieving himself, to his wanton shame, he emitted pus and worms that flowed through his entire body.

    And they say that after he suffered numerous torments and punishments, he died on his own land.... Indeed, even to this day no one can pass by the place without holding their nose. This was how great an outpouring he made from his flesh on the ground."


    The author is Papias and it seems to me Acts is probably using him or another writer who is making reference to the terrible bloating God inflicted upon Judas as punishment. Acts is in agreement with Papias. Note: "Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out" (Acts 1:18). Why did he burst open? It's because, as Papias explains, Judas was punished by God with a terrible bloating. Acts appears to recognize this. It says that Judas fell headlong. That is he tripped while walking and was so bloated he burst open. He did not bloat after death, he was not gutted by a knife. People who say these things are conflating two different accounts and then concocting their own new creation.

    Sometimes reading outside sources helps to illuminate biblical accounts. This is one of those instances. The fact is Matthew presumes death by hanging and Acts recognizes a second tradition.

    Then your problem is not the seeming discontinuity between these two passages, it is understanding the nature of scripture.

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