Resources on Biblical Pacifism

[LClark]

(Some are always confusing two words: pacifism (the rejection of bearing arms in war) and passive. The two words have no relationship. See a dictionary.)

Romans 12 and 13 in Context

Jesus on Two Swords

A Resource Blog on Christian Pacifism Book reviews, Articles, Links to other resources, Early and Later Christian Quotes, etc

Youtube Video on OT and Warfare

Classic, The Early Christian Attitude to War, by C. John Cadoux

Kill Them All On Joshua and the Herem.


Have any to add?

 

[starfield]

I don’t have the time right now to look through all your citations. But just to add, strict pacifism is irresponsible and unrealistic. In order to maintain justice and protect human life often that will necessitate bearing the sword.

 

[BollWeevil]

I don’t have the time right now to look through all your citations. But just to add, strict pacifism is irresponsible and unrealistic. In order to maintain justice and protect human life often that will necessitate bearing the sword.

You offer no reasoning for your statements, no scriptures. The foolishness of God is greater than the greatest wisdom of man. God clearly instructs His people, Christians, to live unconditionally loving towards others and to never react with evil to anyone. Vengeance belongs to God. It is not up to us to judge who deserves harm or death and who doesn't.

 

[Laish]

You offer no reasoning for your statements, no scriptures. The foolishness of God is greater than the greatest wisdom of man. God clearly instructs His people, Christians, to live unconditionally loving towards others and to never react with evil to anyone. Vengeance belongs to God. It is not up to us to judge who deserves harm or death and who doesn't.

How far are you taking this ? Are you saying not to defend you or your wife if some one attacks you or her ?
Or not to join military or police services?
Just wondering ? Your statement is a bit broad .
Blessings
Bill

 

[Johnny_B]

You offer no reasoning for your statements, no scriptures. The foolishness of God is greater than the greatest wisdom of man. God clearly instructs His people, Christians, to live unconditionally loving towards others and to never react with evil to anyone. Vengeance belongs to God. It is not up to us to judge who deserves harm or death and who doesn't.

You are telling us that you are walking down the street and you see a gang of thugs raping a women you would keep walking and let God judges them? Or if your country home town was attacked by an army, the invading army is killing women and children, the elderly and citizens alike. You would sit by and like God judge them, when you could of took up arms to protect you family, friends and follow citizens?

If you would you are an immoral man. You also misinterpret the Bible, the 6th Commandment says you should not murder, kill is a mistranslation of the KJV. In a time of war you have to defend what is morally right, if your country is fighting for immoral reason then maybe you shouldn't fight, with this command in mind to obey government which God set up and protecting your family.

Ecclesiastics 8:2-3 “I say, “Keep the king’s commandment for the sake of your oath to God. 3 Do not be hasty to go from his presence. Do not take your stand for an evil thing, for he does whatever pleases him.”

Proverbs 31:8-9 “Open your mouth for the speechless, in the cause of all who are appointed to die. 9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.”

Luke 22:35-36 “And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”
So they said, “Nothing.”
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.“

 

[BollWeevil]

How far are you taking this ? Are you saying not to defend you or your wife if some one attacks you or her ?
Or not to join military or police services?
Just wondering ? Your statement is a bit broad .
Blessings
Bill

I would defend as much as possible, primarily with my life yet I would not conduct any physical harm to anyone. This third way of dealing with enemies (one way is to do absolutely nothing (which is wrong), & the second way is to outright attack and kill the enemy (which is also wrong)) is not taught in our culture so it's difficult to know the best course to take. What I do know is my family's life and enemy's life are equally valuable therefore I would not judge which one is worthy of dying. I guess I would try to distract the attacker and put myself between him and my family and give my family a chance to get away. I would definitely do anything I could to protect my family while exhibiting love towards the attacker as much as possible. I realize this is contrary to our nature, unpopular, and can be impractical; this is why I trust in God and say that His foolishness is far wiser than any of our thoughts. I can't see joining the police or military as something a Christian would do; however simply joining in and of itself is not wrong. What is wrong are our actions: harming or killing. Hopefully this explains a little better yet this subject is way to comprehensive to explain in a format such as this. I don't believe I can adequately explain my belief nor can you or anyone explain y'alls belief. May we continually meditate on God's word.

 

[BollWeevil]

You are telling us that you are walking down the street and you see a gang of thugs raping a women you would keep walking and let God judges them? Or if your country home town was attacked by an army, the invading army is killing women and children, the elderly and citizens alike. You would sit by and like God judge them, when you could of took up arms to protect you family, friends and follow citizens?

If you would you are an immoral man. You also misinterpret the Bible, the 6th Commandment says you should not murder, kill is a mistranslation of the KJV. In a time of war you have to defend what is morally right, if your country is fighting for immoral reason then maybe you shouldn't fight, with this command in mind to obey government which God set up and protecting your family.

Ecclesiastics 8:2-3 “I say, “Keep the king’s commandment for the sake of your oath to God. 3 Do not be hasty to go from his presence. Do not take your stand for an evil thing, for he does whatever pleases him.”

Proverbs 31:8-9 “Open your mouth for the speechless, in the cause of all who are appointed to die. 9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.”

Luke 22:35-36 “And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”
So they said, “Nothing.”
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.“

Because of your unnecessary accusation that I'm immoral when you don't know me nor do you even know enough of my beliefs to make that statement I will only respond with one point. Your logic concludes that Jesus is immoral also because He did not protect His disciples when He most definitely could have as they went about spreading the word of Christ. Jesus told them they would be persecuted and yet God had the power to shield them from harm as they spread the gospel. God allowed the disciples to be abused, imprisoned and killed. Therefore your belief is God is immoral for allowing this to happen when they were trying to do God's work. This is the same argument you have made toward me. And one final point, there is no refuting the principle of Jesus throughout his life and words that His followers should sacrifice their life for Him by loving all men regardless of whether they deserve love or regardless of how they may treat us. Love your enemies, don't repay evil with evil, allow God to administer vengeance. It's a fallacious argument to put the responsibility for harm done to someone upon on who did not commit the harmful act. Only one person is held accountable for that and that is the evil one who committed the harm. May we continue to study God's truth.

 

[p_rehbein]

this Thread is from February of 2014...............

How did you find it, and why bring it back now?

Starfields comment (which you quote) was over two years ago dude!

 

[Johnny_B]

Because of your unnecessary accusation that I'm immoral when you don't know me nor do you even know enough of my beliefs to make that statement I will only respond with one point. Your logic concludes that Jesus is immoral also because He did not protect His disciples when He most definitely could have as they went about spreading the word of Christ. Jesus told them they would be persecuted and yet God had the power to shield them from harm as they spread the gospel. God allowed the disciples to be abused, imprisoned and killed. Therefore your belief is God is immoral for allowing this to happen when they were trying to do God's work. This is the same argument you have made toward me. And one final point, there is no refuting the principle of Jesus throughout his life and words that His followers should sacrifice their life for Him by loving all men regardless of whether they deserve love or regardless of how they may treat us. Love your enemies, don't repay evil with evil, allow God to administer vengeance. It's a fallacious argument to put the responsibility for harm done to someone upon on who did not commit the harmful act. Only one person is held accountable for that and that is the evil one who committed the harm. May we continue to study God's truth.

First off I never called you anything by anything I know about you which is nothing. I set up a scenario and based on that scenario and how you would respond to it, is what the immoral character of any man would be if they reacted in a certain way. So if you are saying I called immoral it's because you would allow those thugs to continue to rape that women. You are comparing the persecution of the disciples with the gang rape of a women, your reasoning is flawed. But help me understand, Jesus told His disciples to love all men, even if they are your enemy, by your reasoning that includes man raping a women and show love for them would be to allow them to keep raping that women? Where's your love for the women or did Jesus exclude the weak that need to be defended?

Here's a reality check for you brother, where's your love for me, if your reaction towards me for your assumption of my calling you immoral, it doesn't line up with what you are saying is your belief, so your skirt is showing. You will defend yourself over words, but you wouldn't defend a weaker person that stronger people are over taking them and doing them harm, by raping a women. You really need to rethink your standards and the pity behind it.

 

[oldethennew]

MATT. 11:28-29-30.
Come unto Me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and you shall find rest unto your souls.

For My yoke is easy, and My burden is Light.

when we worship and obey our Heavenly Master, He will always guide us
in each and every situation that comes our way...

 

[Johnny_B]

MATT. 11:28-29-30.
Come unto Me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and you shall find rest unto your souls.

For My yoke is easy, and My burden is Light.

when we worship and obey our Heavenly Master, He will always guide us
in each and every situation that comes our way...

Amen my Brother!!!

 

[BollWeevil]

this Thread is from February of 2014...............

How did you find it, and why bring it back now?

Starfields comment (which you quote) was over two years ago dude!

I wasn't aware there was an expiration on Spiritual discussions.

 

[tourist]

this Thread is from February of 2014...............

How did you find it, and why bring it back now?

Starfields comment (which you quote) was over two years ago dude!

Apparently, another a pacifist is in our midst.

 

[hornetguy]

You do not have to "hate" someone in order to physically harm, or kill them. You can have love for all people, but we also are given many examples of Godly men physically resisting evil people.

It's what is in your heart that is important. If you are serving in wartime, and you have to kill the enemy, then you should do your duty. If your enemy surrenders and lays down his arms, then he is no longer a physical threat to you or your brothers in arms, and should be treated with love and dignity....as a prisoner of war.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I would defend as much as possible, primarily with my life yet I would not conduct any physical harm to anyone. This third way of dealing with enemies (one way is to do absolutely nothing (which is wrong), & the second way is to outright attack and kill the enemy (which is also wrong)) is not taught in our culture so it's difficult to know the best course to take. What I do know is my family's life and enemy's life are equally valuable therefore I would not judge which one is worthy of dying. I guess I would try to distract the attacker and put myself between him and my family and give my family a chance to get away. I would definitely do anything I could to protect my family while exhibiting love towards the attacker as much as possible. I realize this is contrary to our nature, unpopular, and can be impractical; this is why I trust in God and say that His foolishness is far wiser than any of our thoughts. I can't see joining the police or military as something a Christian would do; however simply joining in and of itself is not wrong. What is wrong are our actions: harming or killing. Hopefully this explains a little better yet this subject is way to comprehensive to explain in a format such as this. I don't believe I can adequately explain my belief nor can you or anyone explain y'alls belief. May we continually meditate on God's word.

We have something called level of use of force. If someone is being verbal to my family i would try to seperate my family and ignore or say something nice back. But once verbal turns into fist my reaction would be try and pacify the opposition into a blacked out or dazed state. Either by my own fist or any blunt weapon i can find. And then i will call the ambulance.

If the opposition threatened my family with a knife or any weapon I would attack with intentions to kill but if i pacify the enemy and hes still breathing i will call the ambulance.

I am a defender of self defense and police and military. Self defense is only if you feel your life or the life of others near you is at risk of being taken.

God gave you a fight or flight response for a reason did he or did he not? Obviously the safest choice is to flee harm all together but if not possible God gave the adrenaline, slow motion, slow breathing, shutting down of main body functions to solely focus on fleeing or fighting to protect your life.

If God wanted you to sit there he would of not gave you this response.

 

[p_rehbein]

I wasn't aware there was an expiration on Spiritual discussions.

But..............but, how long did it take for you to find this thread in the neatherworld of the Forums?

IF you thought this to be so important to discuss..........why didn't you START YOUR OWN THREAD?

 

[JaumeJ]

Rather than to prove or disprove the Bible teaches pacifism, why not share where our Lord, Jesus Christ, teaches us to war.....to kill.....or even to batter others?

 

[p_rehbein]

Old Testament ............. or New?



PUT ON THE WHOLE ARMOR OF GOD

STAND READY TO DEFEND THE FAITH

JESUS WHIPPED FOLKS OUTTA DA TEMPLE

(but, it does depend on ones definition of pacifism I suspect)

 

[JaumeJ]

From the sum total of the teaching.........

Rather than to prove or disprove the Bible teaches pacifism, why not share where our Lord, Jesus Christ, teaches us to war.....to kill.....or even to batter others?

 

[JaumeJ]

Expanding on this theme.......

2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh
2Co 10:4 (for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but mighty before God to the casting down of strongholds),
2Co 10:5 casting down imaginations, and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ;